Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton

[BlobVanDam]

So now the Doctor is just an exact copy of himself.

Yep (assuming the matter transporter was exactly as it appeared, and not some weird simulation as part of the confession dial. Who knows with the Time Lords.)

Given how much he's been through in time and space, with the constant dematerialization and transporting he's done, he was probably a copy thousands of times over long before this episode too. And then there's regeneration.

[ariich]

Given how much he's been through in time and space, with the constant dematerialization and transporting he's done, he was probably a copy thousands of times over long before this episode too. And then there's regeneration.

Exactly, and I think his ongoing monalogue explained that well. Every time you "teleport", you're converted into a signal and that signal is used to create a perfect copy of you. So this was just a case of repeatedly using the same signal.

[Kotowboy]

It was a pretty bleak concept. The positive is that each new Doctor didn't have the memory of 2 billion previous attempts.

[BlobVanDam]

The memory of 2 billion years of being tormented and killed? Yep, that would truly suck.

[Kotowboy]

The memory of 2 billion years of being tormented and killed? Yep, that would truly suck.

That's the thing that kept me from being utterly miserable after that episode. If each time he started over - he remembered.

[BlobVanDam]

Him remembering would take the fun out of having to figure it out each iteration, so after the first time he'd just sit by the door waiting to chip away at that wall. I liked seeing The Doctor figure it out the same on each loop, but each time realizing he's further and further into the future.
Imagine looking up at the stars, realizing 2 billion years have gone by, and realizing you've lived and died possibly a billion times trying to escape. That's bleak enough already.

[Kotowboy]

Next week will probably end the series on a cliffhanger - can't wait for that !

I just want to see him back in his TARDIS and off on more adventures 

[BlackInk]

Imagine looking up at the stars, realizing 2 billion years have gone by, and realizing you've lived and died possibly a billion times trying to escape. That's bleak enough already.

Got to be a hell of a lot more than 1 billion times though don't you think? He was there for 2 billion years, and each cycle felt like it might have covered a few days. So more like a few hundred billion tries.

[Scorpion]

Oh man, that episode was superbly amazing. I don't think that I have enough good things to say about it! The design of the whole thing, the atmosphere, the monster, the music, the story, Peter Capaldi... A++ from me.

One minor niggle: why didn't the diamond wall reset (other than storytelling purposes?), was there any explanation for that?

[BlackInk]

One minor niggle: why didn't the diamond wall reset (other than storytelling purposes?), was there any explanation for that?

Good point, I don't believe there was. Maybe because it was meant to be a way out all along? I don't know.

[Kotowboy]

One minor niggle: why didn't the diamond wall reset (other than storytelling purposes?), was there any explanation for that?

Good point, I don't believe there was. Maybe because it was meant to be a way out all along? I don't know.

They probably never expected him to get out and thought an impenetrable wall would be enough.

[Scorpion]

SPOILERS (seriously, don't click this link if you haven't seen Heaven Sent!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_coTas61rs

[BlackInk]

I saw the joke coming from second one but it still cracked me up.

[Kotowboy]

I saw the joke coming from second one but it still cracked me up.

From the second one what ?

[abydos]

Last 3 episodes have been very bad. Looking forward to the season break, maybe it will freshen things up for the next one. Makes me sad that they have Coleman and such a brilliant Capaldi, but neither had a story to reach their potential, especially with Clara.

[Scorpion]

I don't think I have ever agreed with your opinion on Doctor Who (just an observation - as long as it's not bashing, I don't particularly care what other people think about things I like, I just found it curious. ).

[Scorpion]

Also, just because I've done it after every episode: rankings!

1. Heaven Sent
2. The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion
3. Face the Raven
4. Under the Lake / Before the Flood
5. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
6. The Girl Who Died / The Woman Who Lived
7. Sleep No More

[abydos]

I don't think I have ever agreed with your opinion on Doctor Who (just an observation - as long as it's not bashing, I don't particularly care what other people think about things I like, I just found it curious. ).

I get that a lot, on a variety of subjects. I'm used to it . Not exactly sure why I don't like a large part of the show anymore, after that season break before the Ponds retired the show has been lacking something substantial and most of the stories haven't drawn me in like they used to and I can't quite put my finger on what's that.

[Heretic]

Yo man if you didn't enjoy Heaven Sent then I think there's no hope for you liking the show. That was literally the best episode of Who yet, likely. The episodes weren't bad, you just didn't like them. They've gotten overwhelming positive reception, the whole season has.

Anyways, the diamond wall didn't reset because it was outside of the main castle -- just as the skulls in the water didn't reset. Plus who would have thought he'd ever break through anyways!

[BlobVanDam]

Imagine looking up at the stars, realizing 2 billion years have gone by, and realizing you've lived and died possibly a billion times trying to escape. That's bleak enough already.

Got to be a hell of a lot more than 1 billion times though don't you think? He was there for 2 billion years, and each cycle felt like it might have covered a few days. So more like a few hundred billion tries.

I apparently don't know the difference between years and days. I was figuring a couple of days each cycle, but forgot it was actually years. A big ball of wibbley wobbley timey wimey failure by me.

And seriously, anybody who didn't love that last episode doesn't even deserve to watch Doctor Who.

[abydos]

Not sure if this "seriously" is serious, but if it is - this is one of the silliest things I've read this month.

[Scorpion]

Guys, chill. Who cares if somebody likes something? I mean, I agree with you that Season 9 has been Doctor Who at the peak of its game, and I also agree that if abydos doesn't like it, then I doubt he's going to like future seasons all that much, but still, that's his thing. Why the hostility? As long there's no "dr who sux bring back rtd david tennent capaldi is a joke lol moffat", what the beef?

[ariich]

I don't think there was any hostility - Blob's comment was slightly mean but I think it was in jest.

[BlobVanDam]

I didn't mean seriously as in you seriously need to stop watching Doctor Who, I meant that if you're actually being serious about not liking the last episodes (which is honestly baffling to me if you're a Who fan), then it's probably not the show for you any more, because imo this is Doctor Who at its absolute best.
I didn't mean it to be mean spirited, I'm just very surprised anybody can not appreciate how great that episode was.

But I'm honoured that you rank the silliness of everything you read on a month by month basis, and then let me know where I rank!

[BlobVanDam]

I just had a thought about the next episode, Hell Bent.
I don't know where this Gallifrey is in the timeline, but I wonder if it's possible we'll finally see the 12th Doctor's involvement with the events of The Day of the Doctor? It would be cool if the episode ends with The Doctor helping to stick Gallifrey in the pocket universe. I didn't see a lot in the trailer that indicated it was in the thick of the time war though, so maybe that's off base.
I also wonder if the hybrid has something to do with Missy, since we last saw her with some scheme with the Daleks. I would also have expected that in the trailer though, unless they're being really sneaky with it.

I'm sure both of those will be wrong.

[masterthes]

Also, just because I've done it after every episode: rankings!

1. Heaven Sent
2. The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion
3. Face the Raven
4. Under the Lake / Before the Flood
5. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
6. The Girl Who Died / The Woman Who Lived
7. Sleep No More

I'd put Magician's Apprentice after Zygon and Face the Raven after The Girl Who Died arc

[BlackInk]

Peter Jackson is set to direct a future episode of Doctor Who!

[Kotowboy]

Peter Jackson is set to direct 3 future episodes of Doctor Who!

FTFY

[Kotowboy]

Hell Bent 

Great Ending.

[Kotowboy]

I also wonder if the hybrid has something to do with Missy

[BlobVanDam]

I also wonder if the hybrid has something to do with Missy

Not quite in the way I was expecting.


I loved that episode, so many great details.
At first I thought the diner with Clara was just another framing device and thought it was unnecessary, but then the episode cleverly gave it context and it was such a sad ending. It was interesting that Clara's theme song got put "in universe" so to speak.

While I thought Clara had a good sendoff for her arc, bringing her back for this episode rounded it out even better by showing not only the bad influence The Doctor had on her, but the bad influence she had on him, with him killing (and having the white dude regenerate into a black chick was a nice choice).
The stock TARDIS was a nice throwback, and I believe Ashildr made a subtle nod to McGann's movie with her question implying he was part human.

The most interesting part was the twist on the Donna Noble ending, with The Doctor forgetting Clara rather than the other way around. It's almost even sadder, because we have to see him live with that, and they made it clear that he'd forgotten nothing else about his adventures. The feels when he saw the mural on the TARDIS, and then it flaked away when he dematerialized.  I was wondering beforehand if the mural would disappear when he dematerialized, and that was before knowing how extra sad that moment would be.

While I instantly thought of The Impossible Astronaut at the start in the Nevada desert, I can't believe I didn't recognize the diner until the end when it did the reverse shot, not long before he realized he'd been there. Silly me.

I'm sure some people (especially Moffat haters) will bitch that Clara actually survived somehow, but I thought it was a fun ending to have Ashildr and Clara in their own TARDIS coincidentally stuck as a diner.

Totally not what I was expecting from that episode, but again a fantastic episode. The Christmas episode however, looks like ass. I hate Christmas episodes, and I hate River Song, so naturally any combination of the two is going to be awful.

[Kotowboy]

Peter Capaldi is an amazing actor and probably the best Doctor.

BY FAR the best Doctor of the reboot era.

[BlobVanDam]

I wouldn't say that. 10/11/12 have all been equally fantastic in their own ways. I'm not sure which would be my favourite, but Capaldi has moved up even further this season. I think I would have to call this the best season of the modern era, and Capaldi is much more comfortable in the role now.
And now he gets his own sonic screwdriver! I like it. And next season, he'll have his own companion, which is exciting.

[bout to crash]

I have mixed feelings about the Clara thing, but overall I really enjoyed the finale. And yes, Heaven Sent, omg! Broke my heart a little. I've been avoiding this thread due to not being caught up, but finally watched the three episodes leading up to this one on Thursday. Gawd, Sleep No More was bad.

[BlobVanDam]

Gawd, Sleep No More was bad.

Did ANYONE like that episode?