Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton

[Mister Gold]

Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.

It depends where you choose to start. That's definitely true if he starts with Series 1 and the Ninth Doctor, but the effects and stuff are improved if he starts at Series 5 and the Eleventh Doctor. Either place would be a great place to start watching the show at. 

[BlobVanDam]

Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.

It depends where you choose to start. That's definitely true if he starts with Series 1 and the Ninth Doctor, but the effects and stuff are improved if he starts at Series 5 and the Eleventh Doctor. Either place would be a great place to start watching the show at. 

I agree. I introduced my brother to the show with S5, and he's now a big fan of the show (he hasn't seen anything pre-Smith). The Moffat era feels like a fresh beginning, effectively "rebooting" all of the stuff that happened on Earth during the RTD era, new Doctor, so it works just as well as a starting point as S1 did.

[BlackInk]

I would recommend starting at S1. I just wouldn't want anyone to miss the chance to get to know Tennant's Doctor, or some of the impressingly emotional beats his run delivers from time to time.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I definitely wouldn't advise skipping the RTD era, but I think it's best to start at S5, and then go back later, because some of those first S1 episodes are just terrible.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

It' s ok guys i'm not gonna abandon the show just because the production standard wasn't fully fletched at S1, the production standard usually gets higher when the budget increase, i'm aware of that and will continue no matter what. I begin with S1 and work myself up, should be interesting given my complete lack of knowledge of anything Dr Who related.

[ariich]

Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.

It depends where you choose to start. That's definitely true if he starts with Series 1 and the Ninth Doctor, but the effects and stuff are improved if he starts at Series 5 and the Eleventh Doctor. Either place would be a great place to start watching the show at. 

For sure, I was basing my comments on his posts which suggested that he'd be starting from s1. Which I do think is the best place to start.

[Jamesman42]

Start at Season 1 of the new era imo. Season 5 is also a good start.

[abydos]

I think going from S1 is best, even if you happen to like S5 and onwards better. There's something special in witnessing regenerations in chronological order, that fresh feeling that hits you initially - not sure if you hate or love what's happening, nostalgic already but looking forward to what the change will bring.

[Kotowboy]

When Capaldi's current series is over - I think i'll start watching from S1 - maybe one episode a night.

I'm slightly more familiar with the "classic" Who - so I may even understand any throwbacks - ( like I have done with Capaldi )...

I only watched " The Day Of The Doctor " to see Tom Baker anyway



Plus I vastly prefer watching a show once it's all done. I'm not a fan of getting into a show and having to wait years for another series.

[ariich]

Kotow, while there have always been throwbacks, I think they have been more direct/explicit since Moffat took over. Completely appreciate that when RTD rebooted the show, he needed to make it current for a new audience and so couldn't go too overboard referencing the classic series, but personally I'm loving how the show is really strongly embracing its whole history now.

[Scorpion]

It' s ok guys i'm not gonna abandon the show just because the production standard wasn't fully fletched at S1, the production standard usually gets higher when the budget increase, i'm aware of that and will continue no matter what. I begin with S1 and work myself up, should be interesting given my complete lack of knowledge of anything Dr Who related.

Awesome! I personally started with S1 (though with episode 3, for some unfathomable reason) and it turned out fine, so don't worry. While there is plenty of iffy stuff in the RTD era, the high points are just as high as the later seasons.

Also, please report back with any reactions to episodes watched and what you thought of them.

[Kotowboy]

Ok I finally got around to watching In The Forest of The Night ?

I didn't think it was *terrible*. I enjoyed it more than Robot Of Sherwood. But those kids could not act

I'm *definitely* skipping it this week and waiting for both next week. Hope it doesn't end on a cliff hanger.

[Kotowboy]

That's a nice idea in theory, but I know I couldn't possibly have the willpower to do it. I'm gonna be right here after seeing the first episode speculating away on the finale.

Oh I can. I'm not a huge fan to begin with and i've gone a week before deciding to watch the latest episode so this is easy for me.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

It' s ok guys i'm not gonna abandon the show just because the production standard wasn't fully fletched at S1, the production standard usually gets higher when the budget increase, i'm aware of that and will continue no matter what. I begin with S1 and work myself up, should be interesting given my complete lack of knowledge of anything Dr Who related.

Awesome! I personally started with S1 (though with episode 3, for some unfathomable reason) and it turned out fine, so don't worry. While there is plenty of iffy stuff in the RTD era, the high points are just as high as the later seasons.

Also, please report back with any reactions to episodes watched and what you thought of them.

Will sure do! 

[BlackInk]

Since there will be some people waiting until next week for this weeks episode, how are we dealing with discussing today's episode?

[ariich]

Go ahead and discuss. If people want to avoid spoilers, they should avoid this thread for the week, or be careful.

I think to help out a bit, we should put spoiler warnings at the start of all posts containing spoilers maybe?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Naw for me it's cool I won't check the thread that much besides any current events probably won't make any sense for me during S1 anyway.

[Scorpion]

... Well, that was pretty damn awesome.

I don't think we've ever had such a slow burner as a finale episode 1 before, but if worked perfectly. Missy was great, Seb was hilarious, that scene at the volcano (hello Mt. Doom!)... everything just came together to a perfect episode that was so much creepier than 95% of everything that Who has ever done.

Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.

Still, on the whole, this was AMAZING. Easily my favourite of the season, and considering the season's strength, that's not something that I'm saying lightly.

[masterthes]

Yeah, that was pretty awesome. I agree, best episode so far. The whole thing with Seb reminded me of something Douglas Adams or Monty Python would do

[Jaq]

Holy fuck. 

[BlobVanDam]

Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.

Yeah, they revealed far too much in advance in the official trailers, so they ruined the big reveal, but it was still cool seeing all of the pieces come together, and it didn't hurt the episode one bit. Awesome episode. I can't wait for the conclusion.


SPOILERS:



I saw people saying from day guessing it was the Master, figuring that Missy was short for Mistress. It's interesting to finally have a timelord seemingly regenerate as a different gender. Very interesting concept with  reviving the dead. The Cybermen in the tanks reminded me of the Silence in The Wedding of River Song.

And any episode that starts off with Danny Pink being killed is fine by me. It says a lot about their relationship that he couldn't figure a single thing to say to prove it was him. When he was saying "I love you", I figured he was going to recall her last words to him before he died, but nope.

[Mister Gold]

... Well, that was pretty damn awesome.

I don't think we've ever had such a slow burner as a finale episode 1 before, but if worked perfectly. Missy was great, Seb was hilarious, that scene at the volcano (hello Mt. Doom!)... everything just came together to a perfect episode that was so much creepier than 95% of everything that Who has ever done.

Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.

Still, on the whole, this was AMAZING. Easily my favourite of the season, and considering the season's strength, that's not something that I'm saying lightly.

Completely agreed. Easily the best of the season so far. Hopefully Death in Heaven keeps up the game and results in an incredible two-parter finale!

[Scorpion]

And any episode that starts off with Danny Pink being killed is fine by me. It says a lot about their relationship that he couldn't figure a single thing to say to prove it was him. When he was saying "I love you", I figured he was going to recall her last words to him before he died, but nope.

I don't really understand your hate for Danny, but even so, don't you think that you're being a little hard on the guy? He just died, he's talking to his still-alive girlfriend, and she keeps insisting on him not being real. Don't you think that should cut him some slack? Plus, I think it's very possible that Clara is just afraid of Danny being a fake and getting attached to him again, to have that explained, and is thus being hyper-critical - keep in mind that there is a whole portion of the story ommitted, and we don't see the things that Danny says, so I don't understand why you're immediately jumping to the conclusion that shows him in the worst possible light.

[BlackInk]

SPOILERS



I really do not like the cybermen, never have. But this still managed to be a great episode. The whole thing just had such a creepy vibe to it. I was also hoping for Missy not to be the Master, I think it would have been better to have someone new and fresh. It would have been cool to see another time-lord/lady survivor, whose history with the Doctor we haven't seen. That being said, the reveal was quite masterfully (puns-ohoy) executed.

Overall I really enjoyed this episode. Best of the season, despite the inclusion of something I have never been a fan of and something else I was hoping not to be. Well done.

[BlobVanDam]

And any episode that starts off with Danny Pink being killed is fine by me. It says a lot about their relationship that he couldn't figure a single thing to say to prove it was him. When he was saying "I love you", I figured he was going to recall her last words to him before he died, but nope.

I don't really understand your hate for Danny, but even so, don't you think that you're being a little hard on the guy? He just died, he's talking to his still-alive girlfriend, and she keeps insisting on him not being real. Don't you think that should cut him some slack? Plus, I think it's very possible that Clara is just afraid of Danny being a fake and getting attached to him again, to have that explained, and is thus being hyper-critical - keep in mind that there is a whole portion of the story ommitted, and we don't see the things that Danny says, so I don't understand why you're immediately jumping to the conclusion that shows him in the worst possible light.

Upon rewatching it, I realized that his final "I love you" was intentional so she wouldn't come after him and get herself killed, so I was being too hard on him there. Cheerfully withdrawn.
However, I didn't get the impression anything was really omitted from that conversation, so he was just being dense before that.

It seems they do make a habit of omitting things where he is concerned though. I don't buy the entire relationship at all because they skipped over most of it, so all we're left with is a boring, awkward wet blanket teacher who doesn't like The Doctor or adventure or any kind of fun. He's a worthless character with no redeeming qualities, and I'll be glad to never see him again after this finale.
And I hope we don't get some cliche scene where Danny's Cyberman encounters Clara and their love turns him good again and he saves the day by sacrificing himself or something along those lines. Blegh.

[ariich]

Such a great episode!

SPOILERS

Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.

Yeah, they revealed far too much in advance in the official trailers, so they ruined the big reveal, but it was still cool seeing all of the pieces come together, and it didn't hurt the episode one bit. Awesome episode. I can't wait for the conclusion.

Yeah but they had no choice really, because they filmed loads of scenes of the Cybermen at St Paul's Cathedral with loads of people watching. When they do public filming like that, they have no choice but to reveal the details they can't hide.

I agree it did soften the impact, but it was still really well done. In particular, I didn't twig certain details that I subsequently realised I should have done. The logo (small circle and big circle) looking like a Cyberman's eye was a great touch that I didn't spot at first, and the dark water hiding non-organic material and therefore disguising them as skeletons was brilliant.

[BlobVanDam]

Such a great episode!

SPOILERS

Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.

Yeah, they revealed far too much in advance in the official trailers, so they ruined the big reveal, but it was still cool seeing all of the pieces come together, and it didn't hurt the episode one bit. Awesome episode. I can't wait for the conclusion.

Yeah but they had no choice really, because they filmed loads of scenes of the Cybermen at St Paul's Cathedral with loads of people watching. When they do public filming like that, they have no choice but to reveal the details they can't hide.

That is true, it's just that the whole episode was paced to build to the Cyberman reveal at the very end, first with the subtle logo, then the water tanks draining. But the episode worked just as well knowing it in advance, so I didn't care one bit.

And I thought of something else. Clara didn't recognize Missy, so I'm not sure where that puts the whole woman in the shop idea. Missy did basically claim to have chosen Clara, but you'd think Clara would have recognized her if that was her. I hope that is an important part of next season's arc, if not revealed in this finale. It's obviously a thread they intend to deal with at some point.

[BlackInk]

The logo (small circle and big circle) looking like a Cyberman's eye was a great touch that I didn't spot at first,

I didn't notice either, until those doors closed and we saw the two logos next to each other and that *duh duh duuuuuuh* music played. Okay, maybe it wasn't the *duhduhduuh*, but it might as well have been.

[ariich]

The logo (small circle and big circle) looking like a Cyberman's eye was a great touch that I didn't spot at first,

I didn't notice either, until those doors closed and we saw the two logos next to each other and that *duh duh duuuuuuh* music played. Okay, maybe it wasn't the *duhduhduuh*, but it might as well have been.

And good point Blob, hadn't thought of that, but yeah still some points unaddressed.

[Heretic]

Sorry I haven't been around to post my thoughts on the episode, but MAN was it fantastic. Contender for Moffat's best finale if the second part follows up as well. The Master reveal was just wonderful, and Michelle Gomez brilliantly played the character-- the sinister dialogue, the humorous, yet sadistic subtleties... all just great. I think Moffat has done an amazing job this series and he is wrapping it all up quite nicely.

[BlobVanDam]

In Deep Breath, Missy referred to The Doctor as her boyfriend, and said The Doctor would never be mean to her because he loves her so much.
Was Missy just being facetious, with the intention of throwing the viewer off the scent? I did see a few people think it was somehow River Song because of that, so that's probably the case.
Then again, Missy did give The Doctor a pretty long kiss. Given that it's still The Master, that's a little creepy, even as a woman!

I assume from her comments that this is supposed to take place after the events of his final encounter with the 10th Doctor? Which means The Master somehow got out of the time lock on the time war. It might be tied into the events of The Time of the Doctor, escaping through the crack somehow, and the finale might reveal more about the current fate of Gallifrey.

I wasn't really going anywhere in particular with that train of thought. Just thinking out aloud.

[Metro]

Y'know, we've never seen River Song and The Master at the same place at the same time...

[hefdaddy42]

OK, I saw the forest episode, and didn't care for it (not as bad as the Robin Hood episode, though).

Then I caught the latest episode, and it was fantastic.  I share Blob's disdain for Danny Pink, so when he started off dying, I was loving it.  I know that sounds awful, but it's true.

Can't wait for part two.

[Kotowboy]

So glad The Doctor's home planet is called Gallifrey and not something really obvious and alien sounding like Zargon .

[BlackInk]

Yeah, 'Gallifrey' is pretty epic.