Author Topic: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton  (Read 53433 times)

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Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1365 on: October 08, 2018, 02:06:02 PM »
I enjoyed it somewhat. It wasn't terrible. Jodie Whittaker didn't convince me but perhaps that was the point. None of the new companions do anything for me at this point, so... let them die in space and start over, please? :D Anyway, I'm a bit more optimistic about the whole thing than I was yesterday so that's a good sign for now.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1366 on: October 08, 2018, 10:49:45 PM »
Actually the theme was the only thing I wasn't so keen on. I liked that it's the closest they've done to the classic sound in terms of style, but I'm not a fan of also going with 60s BBC production values for it, especially when the show itself feels very refreshed.

Oh and I enjoyed the cliffhanger. Sounds like maybe they're doing that Classic Who thing of basically unconnected stories, but with regular cliffhangers to set up the next one.

All of this seems to connect a bit with what I was saying about her “channeling Tennant”...

I’m not even saying that it was intentional (though maybe subconsciously it was)....but to me, logic dictates that if you are going to throw the biggest curveball in the history of a 50+ year old series that is OOZING with tradition...you probably want to throw as much of “something familiar” or “something classic” into the mix so that everyone is reminded that “just because we made the Doctor a woman, doesn’t mean we’re throwing out everything that made the show what it has been for 50 years”

If that makes any sense.   

It’s a smart move considering the stakes IMO
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Offline ozzy554

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1367 on: October 09, 2018, 12:16:07 PM »
I had a lot of classic who vibes from this episode which I liked. I think the extra 20 minutes or so that this episode had added a lot to it. I like the companions so far and look forward to see where they go from here.

Jodie was really doctoring it up in this episode (if that makes any sort of sense) I'm sure over the next few episodes we'll see more of what HER version of the doctor will end up being.

Overall very solid start for the new series. Post regeneration episodes usually aren't classics (with a few exceptions) but overall I think this was one of the better ones.
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Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1368 on: October 15, 2018, 04:54:57 AM »
It's always amazing to see how powerful empty threats can be in Who, for no good reason. The second episode was more meh than the first and I'm not at all fan of the new Tardis design.

Offline ozzy554

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1369 on: October 19, 2018, 06:55:24 PM »
The second was a more standard episode of NuWho. Enjoyable enough for what it was. I still love how the season looks, the change in cameras was for the best IMO.

I thought the tardis interior was fine, I have no gripes about it. My personal favorite Tardis interior is the wooden one that Tom Baker had for a season or 2. It was pretty short lived as the set was stored improperly between seasons and got warped.
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1370 on: October 21, 2018, 11:39:23 PM »
I loved this episode of Doctor Who. From the trailer I was expecting it to involve more alien stuff, so I'm glad they limited that to the minimum necessary for the story here, and kept it real and grounded. I'm not used to seeing Doctor Who tackle racism so directly and bluntly like that, and they did it perfectly. Having the three companions worked very well here too.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1371 on: October 22, 2018, 03:25:18 PM »
A rather pointless episode. No resolve, the bad guy was totally handicapped and we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history. My best guess is someone wanted her as a trophy from the past or something, I don't know. So far, the weakest episode but the best in terms of atmosphere, it really sold what I imagine that period was like.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1372 on: October 22, 2018, 11:50:10 PM »
we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.
What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.

Basically he's a massive racist from the future who hates that Rosa's action spawned a civil rights movement that ended up leading to equality, and wanted to undo it.

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1373 on: October 23, 2018, 03:29:15 AM »
Yeah, it was pretty clearly explained that he was a racist who chose this as the major turning point in history where things went "wrong" in his opinion.
The bad guy wasn't explained in a lot of detail, which I think actually helped not to take away from the point of the story, but his motivation was made clear enough there.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1374 on: October 23, 2018, 03:45:05 AM »
Yeah. My only real criticism is that I'd actually have quite liked it if they'd made more of that. It was somewhat subtle (enough so that abydos didn't even register it). I also wasn't entirely convinced by some of the dialogue in the episode.

So it was maybe my least favourite of the three so far, but conceptually I loved it and there were some really great touches. I especially liked the way the Doctor made sure that they didn't intervene in Rosa's action itself. They made sure that the circumstances were still there for her to do it, but what was important was that she had to do it herself, with no knowledge of what it would end up meaning. Felt quite different to what Doctor Who normally does but it was a great moment.

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1375 on: October 23, 2018, 04:09:00 AM »
we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.
What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.

Basically he's a massive racist from the future who hates that Rosa's action spawned a civil rights movement that ended up leading to equality, and wanted to undo it.
A murderous alien traveled back in time to "fix" history. On earth. In the US only. He's such a racist that this is the only thing he cares about after being released from a prison for very dangerous people. Human history must be a very popular subject in intergalactic schools I guess.
That is worse than having no motivation, which is why I didn't take it at face value. Maybe I am not supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the current writing team then.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1376 on: October 23, 2018, 04:46:11 AM »
we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.
What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.

Basically he's a massive racist from the future who hates that Rosa's action spawned a civil rights movement that ended up leading to equality, and wanted to undo it.
A murderous alien traveled back in time to "fix" history. On earth. In the US only. He's such a racist that this is the only thing he cares about after being released from a prison for very dangerous people. Human history must be a very popular subject in intergalactic schools I guess.
That is worse than having no motivation, which is why I didn't take it at face value. Maybe I am not supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the current writing team then.
Again, what? He's not an alien and he's not doing it because he wants to only change this one incident. He's a human from the future who clearly hates racial equality, and as Blob said in his post, has determined that Rosa's action was the crucial turning point when it comes to civil rights. By stopping that from happening, everything else that spawns from it in the future doesn't happen.

Sometimes I feel like you go into things looking for reasons to hate them. :lol

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1377 on: October 23, 2018, 04:57:04 AM »
Oh, a human, assumed he's not because of the time travel. :D Surely there are better time periods to pick that would have a much larger impact than that.

I never go into something with a reason to dislike it, quite the contrary, but they just give me stupid reasons like this to bitch about :lol Admittedly, I get irritated by minor things way more than I should be, but that's how I am. I'm working on it!

Him being human makes more sense, but still, a very cartoonish character to write and doesn't change my opinion on the overall story of the episode.

Oh, one more thing. So, I was thinking that they always say that history is very sensitive in Who and other time travel shows. But then they always portray changing the future as something that's OK or at most not something to be worried about. But when you time travel, your current future is also the past, depending on where you are so unless you're at the end of time, isn't it just as bad to mess with it?

Paging Blob and other time travel enthusiasts.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 05:02:26 AM by abydos »

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1378 on: October 23, 2018, 05:08:30 AM »
Fair enough. :lol I actually agree that the character himself wasn't written in a particularly interesting way. Like I said, I love the concept but I wasn't entirely sold on the execution.

In terms of time travel, it's pretty well established in Doctor Who lore that humans have time travel capabilities in future using vortex manipulators and whatever else: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Agency

It's also a pretty standard trope in Doctor Who and time-travel based sci-fi in general that changing a small but important event in the past has huge ramifications for the future. And Rosa Parks' defiance is pretty widely hailed as a huge moment in the American civil rights movement that had an emormous impact globally. So in both a historical and sci-fi context, the story makes a lot of sense.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1379 on: October 23, 2018, 05:11:44 AM »
Oh, one more thing. So, I was thinking that they always say that history is very sensitive in Who and other time travel shows. But then they always portray changing the future as something that's OK or at most not something to be worried about. But when you time travel, your current future is also the past, depending on where you are so unless you're at the end of time, isn't it just as bad to mess with it?

Paging Blob and other time travel enthusiasts.
The way that Doctor Who and a lot of other sci-fi shows/movies/books/games address this is the concept that there are hard and soft events. Some things absolutely have to happen for the timeline to function - if they are changed then the ramifications are enormous and could even threaten the fabric of space-time. Other events are soft and flexible and can be changed, within reason, without destroying the universe.

That's a pretty common trope and it can be good when utilised effectively.

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1380 on: October 23, 2018, 07:41:15 AM »
Basically in Doctor Who it's just a matter of what the story calls for, because handling that realistically in a show like Doctor Who would be a nightmare. You just have to accept the contrivance as a viewer.

Also, the dude was a psycho racist criminal, so who knows if he was even right about the impact of this event. Him being an idiot isn't necessarily a plot hole. :lol
Surely equal rights would have happened at some point regardless, but again, it wasn't really the point of the story here. The focus was on the historical/social significance of the real life event and figures, the time travelling bad guy was only used to the extent necessary to set up the scenario. I agree it left something to be desired in that regard, but it was what it was. Still my favourite ep of the season so far.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1381 on: October 23, 2018, 10:58:18 AM »
I kind of assumed he came from the time that Captain Jack originally came from as he had the same time travel device.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1382 on: October 23, 2018, 12:35:14 PM »
I kind of assumed he came from the time that Captain Jack originally came from as he had the same time travel device.
Certainly possible. He was also locked up in the Stormcage, which was where River Song was imprisoned.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1383 on: October 24, 2018, 12:51:07 AM »
Gotta say that I'm liking the new series so far!

It feels different enough from the Moffat and Davies eras, while at the same time retaining some of the Dna of the previous NewWho seasons. I'm liking Jodie as the doctor, but so far it feels difficult to say, what her character arc will be throughout her run. I'm hoping it will get clearer as the season goes on. Companions are also good, with the old guy being my favorite so far.

Last episode "Rosa" had very heavy subject matter, and felt pretty dark compared to most of Moffat's run. I hope they won't shy away from doing these kinds of episodes in the future.

I'm loving the music and the cinematography so far. Feels super refreshing to get some new blood to compose the music, instead of Murray Gold all over again. I'm also liking the sonic and the Tardis redesign.

Series 11 is going well so far!

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1384 on: October 24, 2018, 03:59:35 AM »
While I'm enjoying the music so far this season a lot, especially the the team theme or whatever it is they've used a few times, I'm still VERY sad to see Murray Gold go, because he's possibly my favourite composer from his work on Doctor Who, and he wrote countless memorable themes. The Doctor Who soundtracks are amazing, especially from S5 onwards.
I don't even know if the 13th Doctor has a theme. Is it the recurring music they use for the team? It's not used in the same context, so I don't think so.

The previous TARDIS interior was my absolute favourite, so I'm sad to see that go too, but obviously that was inevitable, and I like each Doctor to get their own TARDIS. My only issue with the TARDIS interior is that the big pillars kind of block the wide shots too much. At least with the 9th/10th interior, the pillars were at the edges, not around the console. I love the new exterior though. Very classic influence there, as with a lot of other elements this season.

Jodie is settling into the role more now, and she's already a very good Doctor imo. Can't wait to see how her Doctor develops over the rest of her run.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline soupytwist

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1385 on: October 25, 2018, 03:52:04 AM »
I enjoyed episode 3 far more than the previous 2 - although it felt more like an episode of Quantum Leap or Timeless rather than Doctor Who to be honest.

I found the first couple of episodes really flat and quite frankly pretty boring (which is ironic because I normally found Moffat Who to be often too rushed).  They are clearly going for a more grounded version of the show and it's going to take some getting used too for me.   

Jodie is.........OK I guess - they've gone for the safe route of the 'nice, human and mildly quirky' Doctor (basically a Female Tennant).   It's understandable as the first female Doctor they couldn't really takes to many risks with the character, and Tennant has been the most popular Doctor with regards to viewing figures.   I've not yet seen a moment where I felt 'Jodie' is the Doctor - but there again the scripts haven't really given her any 'Doctor' moments.  It feels they are going for a 'gang' vibe, with the Doctor not standing out so much from her companions....speaking of which.

Companions,  I'm still thinking three is one too many.  Yaz in particular doesn't seem to have done anything in the first 3 episodes.  Graham is fine - a little bit of 'Wilf' about him.   And if Ryan isn't going to have to ride a bike in the season finale to save the day I'll be very surprised!

Overall it's different - a tad safe and bland in my opinion, needs more Sci-Fi (and better villains).   I get the feeling for me this is going to be like the RTD era in that I'm going to like the guest writers episodes more than the showrunners episodes - which looking at the writing credit the second half on this series should be better than the first.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 04:03:21 AM by soupytwist »

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