Lonely Hearts Club Thread v. The Strong Grip

[Stadler]

Right, but it seems like that's the ideal most people are looking for, at least a lot of people I know and everybody in the movies
I know everybody is different and yeah, I am sure it just happens... it just kind of blows my mind.

I totally get that; but - and I'm not arguing here, just explaining how I'm thinking about this - I think that's why I say it "just happens" as opposed to plans.  I thought - deeply, honestly - that when I got married (I waited until I was 30) I would be married for life.   But it didn't work out that way.  "Man plans, God laughs" and all that.   I think it's really the human tendency to want to look back in hindsight and explain everything with a nice neat little bow.  Plus, movies.  Hell, they're still trying to convince us that Julia Roberts is hot and sexy and attractive (that woman does NOTHING for me.  If I was Richard Gere I would have said, "no, honey, the girl behind you...")   

Not really. I wish the answer could be yes, on some level, because that would make my life a lot simpler. But I simply do not think I'm wired to be monogamous. It's what I always thought I wanted in my younger days, and it has worked for brief periods, but it never lasts.
To be honest, I had that person in my life and I basically pushed him away because I knew I couldn't give him what he wanted. He is still in my life and we still see each other a couple times a year (he's in TX), but we have not been a "couple" in the traditional sense in 4+ years. When I finally admitted to myself I couldn't force myself into the monogamy box, I knew I was just going to hurt him if I kept things going the way they were, so I told him that.
He is the only person I've ever been able to envision myself married to or having a family with, but the only way that could happen is if it was not a closed marriage. And if we were in the same state. But I stopped him from moving to Colorado years ago and probably fucked up the chance of that ever happening. *sigh*

I totally get that frustration, but you have no idea how much I for one respect your self-honesty.   I'm more traditional when it comes to what I personally want, but in terms of generally, the one thing I can't fathom at this point in my life is why anyone would invest time, money, emotions in someone they can't be themselves with.   If you like Star Wars figurines, then by God, tell that woman straight out that "The room downstairs is going to be wall-to-wall Star Wars figurines, bitches!!"  If you KNOW you're not going to be able to maintain the monogamy with any degree of happiness, you owe it to yourself and the person you allegedly love (meaning, if you REALLY love them, you'll be honest with them) to put it on the table.  Who the fuck knows?  Maybe that guy will call you and say "You know, you're worth it.  Do what you have to do." Maybe he'll say "I don't want to know" and "don't embarrass me with it" but he'll be able to let you live your life (I don't know if that will do it for you but you get the point). 

I know that I remarried relatively quickly after my divorce primarily because I got these things (my deal breakers are more towards Star Wars figurines than polygamy, but still). 

[cramx3]

I used to feel like I not only wanted to, but society was steering me to be a traditional american couple.  Met the girl in college, dated for many years, bought a house together, got engaged, invested my money into our future... thought my life was going down the path of most married couples and living "the american dream" until it all came crashing down.  "man plans, god laughs"    yea that. 

I have such a different outlook on life now.  I no longer feel the need to have a relationship that will lead to anything.  I'd rather focus on being happy NOW than try and figure out a way to force a relationship down my throat, which looking back, is exactly what I did.  My past relationship was forced, not just by me, but by her as well.  We both just got to a point where even though we were unhappy, we were continuing going through the motions because I know I felt like that's what not only was expected of me from society (family, friends), but also because I think I was forcing the idea on myself that I need to get married and live the typical life.  I couldn't see myself doing anything else.  Until it got to the breaking point that is.

Now, I don't feel any pressure to succumb to any lifestyle that people think I should be living, fuck that.  I enjoy my life a million times more now that I "do what I want" (within reason of course).  I do feel that if I were to find the right person I would fall into a typical couple lifestyle, but I need the right person and to that point, as seen in this thread before, I've become very picky and has lead me to break up with almost every single girl I have dated.  But that is because I am not going to settle for anything but happiness.  I will keep searching for that person, but it's not my goal.  I don't go into any date thinking "I hope she is the one"  I have more of the mindset "I hope we have fun and if so, then we will see where it goes" (and I don't mean that in only a sexual way).  It also bothers me when I meet a woman and she says or implies something to make me feel like she is deliberately searching for "the one" because I feel like that's forcing the issue and would potentially lead to getting stuck in the same place I was 2 years ago. 

Anyway, I've noticed I completely stopped talking to the other girls I was chatting with and have been focusing in on only this one girl from my tinder success story.  I'm just really digging this girl.  She was drinking last night so I got a few drunk texts of really nice things which was cool because she kind of opened up about being shy with saying anything along the lines of "i like you" so while her actions were showing it, it's also nice to hear (or read) it from her.  We have a date tomorrow night, and I think next week I will be in the city for a work event and we will meet up after so our distance issue, for now, seems to be working.  We also talked about her coming out and spending a weekend with me in Jersey.  I am really excited to see her again.

[bout to crash]

Aww, that's awesome news! And yeah, I totally hear what you're saying about just going with it and not going into a date with this "plan" of what you want down the road. That would definitely turn me off if I had experiences like the ones you mentioned.

Stadler, you totally hit that shit on the head. The older I get the more trouble I have trying to be something I'm not. You're right, I had to be honest about where I was at because I loved him. Still do, really. I'm not sure where it's going, but I guess l will cross that bridge when it comes.

When we first started dating he was definitely strictly monogamous. We tried an open relationship for a while because I was feeling suffocated (I had literally JUST gotten out of a mono relationship when we met and had intended to just have fun with dating, then things got serious fast)... but that did not work out well so we went back to mono. We were in NJ at the time. I moved out here and we did the long distance mono thing for two years. I was in grad school and too busy to think about anybody else's penis, really, but as soon as I graduated I ended up cheating and realized I could not sustain that shit. So basically since September of 2011 we have been...unlabeled... and see each other occasionally. I brought it back up with him in 2014 and asked if he was okay with the way things were, because I didn't want him to feel held back by me if he wanted to pursue something serious with somebody else. He said he didn't feel that way and was okay with where we were at. We haven't talked about it since, and I don't know how much he's dated (when I asked he said "not really....") but he knows about one specific guy I had a thing with.
If we both end up in the same place and he's willing to accept where I'm at, awesome. If not, I guess I will have to do life without him. Which would suck, but I would understand. He shouldn't have to compromise that if it's something he feels strongly about, either.

[sylvan]

Well then it's interesting that i asked asked nthat question. This guy is your litmus test on monogamy. If it's not him, it's based for you to imagine it being anyone. So when you come to that bridge down the road, and you're happy with where you're at, so is he, and you want to keep him in your life, would you ever think that you two should kick ass together? I guess it's hard to know what we'll be thinking in the future, but I'm wondering if you're committed to polygamy the same way people commit to monogamy, even if they're not in a relationship.

That's awesome cram! I thought about bringing up the long distance topic just as a point of discussion.

[bout to crash]

I wouldn't say "committed" is the word (maybe because I hate commitment ) but I would say I've realized I don't think I can operate any other way for an extended period. I'm not opposed to monogamy and I've tried it.. and who knows, maybe in ten years I'll have a change of heart. But I don't think that's the type of thing that just fades away.
I really would love to have this guy in my life forever and as you say, kick ass together... but not if that means forcing either of us to go against our nature.

[Stadler]

I wouldn't say "committed" is the word (maybe because I hate commitment ) but I would say I've realized I don't think I can operate any other way for an extended period. I'm not opposed to monogamy and I've tried it.. and who knows, maybe in ten years I'll have a change of heart. But I don't think that's the type of thing that just fades away.

Maybe, maybe not, but - and I am NOT trying to subversively advocate monogramy; if anything I am overtly advocating for being authentic, and you seem to be already there - this is what I meant by "no plans".  There are plenty of things that I would have - at 25 or so - thought I'd NEVER concede or compromise, and yet... they just seem to fade in importance.  I used to drink a LOT and often, and it just seems that I don't have the stomach and the desire to do that like I used to.  I'm lucky if I have a glass of wine with dinner now, but it wasn't through ANY effort whatsoever.  It just... was.     If he's cool with letting life play out, then perhaps that's the best way to go.

I really would love to have this guy in my life forever and as you say, kick ass together... but not if that means forcing either of us to go against our nature.

Speaking of "Hollywood"... I see a movie here!!

[bout to crash]

Man, I really should write some screenplays. And yeah, you're right. I like the idea of letting it play out as long as he's also fine with it.

[Adami]

I'm not opposed to monogamy and I've tried it.. and who knows, maybe in ten years I'll have a change of heart.

I'm counting down the days.

[bout to crash]

I want to have your deformed Jew babies, Adami. Just give me a few more years to slut it up.

[cramx3]

Awesome date last night, did Hibachi and mini golf.  Had two hole in 1s and kicked her ass   But seriously, very good date and we have some serious chemistry.  I really can't wait to see her again.   I mentioned that I am surprised a city dweller came out to Jersey, a big reason why I never thought to seriously date someone from the city and she said it was worth it and would be worth doing again.   

[Prog Snob]

You couldn't go for the third hole-in-one?

[cramx3]

You couldn't go for the third hole-in-one?

Well I could, and I did, I just failed 

[bout to crash]

Oh snap

Glad it went well though!

Vermont cancelled our date tonight due to being burnt out. I'm sorta relieved because I'm feeling the same way, and we are going to try and do dinner next week before I leave for Chicago.

[sylvan]

I had a first date tonight with someone I'd been talking with on match. Our conversation was good, and she didn't seem to be too serious about things, so I figured it would be fun. But all the while not sure if she's my type, and she's 37 which is much older than most of the other women I've gone out with. Even sitting in my car killng a few mins because she was running late, I had this feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. Partially nerves, partially not really sure what I want out of this. The whole night was a pleasant surprise. More attractive than her pictures, very easy to talk to, really down to earth. The last two first dates I went on, the conversation going in was good, one was REAL good. But I left the date with no interest in a second and talked the neither one again. This was different. She wants to do something next week, so I think it could be potentially fun.

[bout to crash]

Awesome! That's kinda how I felt about Vermont.

[cramx3]

Good stuff Sylvan.

Sometimes I get that feeling right before a first date too, do I really want to do this?  Maybe something else would have been more fun? But when you are done and you realize you had a good time, that is the best.

[Prog Snob]

I'm supposed to meet someone tomorrow night. I started speaking her in December. We spoke through text for a few days and then happen to run into each other on the Staten Island Ferry coming home from work one day. A week after that we just kind of stopped talking. The other day I saw her post a photo on Facebook of her with her dog and wanted to see how she was doing. We've been talking since then and we're going to meet up tomorrow. She's really really sweet and she's this really tiny and petite girl but it's cute. She can't even be 5' tall. More importantly, she works with children that have similar afflictions to my daughter's so she is extremely sensitive to her situation which is a big deal to me. 

I had a first date tonight with someone I'd been talking with on match. Our conversation was good, and she didn't seem to be too serious about things, so I figured it would be fun. But all the while not sure if she's my type, and she's 37 which is much older than most of the other women I've gone out with. Even sitting in my car killng a few mins because she was running late, I had this feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. Partially nerves, partially not really sure what I want out of this. The whole night was a pleasant surprise. More attractive than her pictures, very easy to talk to, really down to earth. The last two first dates I went on, the conversation going in was good, one was REAL good. But I left the date with no interest in a second and talked the neither one again. This was different. She wants to do something next week, so I think it could be potentially fun.

I'm glad to hear it went well. I've never really had that nervous feeling going into a date, so I can't relate, but I can understand why people do. It's can be a completely nerveracking situation. My frustration comes with the online search.     

[cramx3]

Awesome Prog, that's cool that she can relate with your daughter.  Hope that works out for you tomorrow night

[Prog Snob]

Thanks. I don't think it'll be an issue of how she is on the date. I think it's all on what I want and how far I'm willing to let it go. I don't mean sexually; I'm speaking in an emotional sense. Like with all of the others I've spoken to recently, I could just walk away because I'm afraid of commitment again, and I've become ridiculously picky.

[cramx3]

I could just walk away because I'm afraid of commitment again, and I've become ridiculously picky.

Pretty much how I've become as well

[Prog Snob]

Sometimes I feel like I'm better off single and should just wait until I find exactly what I want.

[cramx3]

Sometimes I feel like I'm better off single and should just wait until I find exactly what I want.

Well agreed, but I know I would never find what I want if I didn't go out and try some samples which is essentially dating.

[Prog Snob]

Why is it that whenever I complain about dating, someone responds to me on OKCupid.     You're right though. That's what keeps me going. Knowing that it won't just fall into my lap. Barring a lap dance of course.

[cramx3]

Knowing that it won't just fall into my lap. Barring a lap dance of course.

 

[bout to crash]

I once got a stripper's phone number after a lap dance. I never called her.

[axeman90210]

I once got a stripper's phone number after a lap dance. I never called her.

You monster.

[sylvan]

I once got a stripper's phone number after a lap dance. I never called her.

You monster.

Imagine what that did to her self esteem. She may have tried drugs for the first time after that disappointment. 

[bout to crash]

 

I'm a terrible person.

Also, I had a three-person date tonight

[cramx3]

Also, I had a three-person date tonight

Do tell more 

[Prog Snob]

I cancelled the date last night...

[cramx3]

I cancelled the date last night...

Why?

[Prog Snob]

Because this is what I do. I start talking to someone and start to like them, and then when it's time to show my hand, I fold. It's something in my head, some kind of block that's either filling me with fear or indifference. Most likely fear. I feel like shit after it and I break down but it's just impossible to figure out. I did not sleep at all last night. That makes three nights in the last week.

[King Postwhore]

John, you'll never know, experience the other person without taking the dive.  As nervous as you are it's a good nervous.  Don't look inward thinking the worst of yourself but think that the nerves are a good thing and look forward to the date.

[cramx3]

What are you so scared about though?  Scared to get attached or scared to get rejected? 

As Buck Rogers said in episode 1 of Vinyl "You've got to face your fears, face yours fears.... face your fears"

I've found the hardest thing is to get out of the car sometimes.  First dates when I arrive, if I sit in that car I start to get nervous and question myself, but once I force myself out of the car, all of that smoke in my head disappears and its go time.  Time to be yourself and see if you can woo the woman.  Got to put all of those thoughts in your head to the side and be confident in yourself.

[Prog Snob]

John, you'll never know, experience the other person without taking the dive.  As nervous as you are it's a good nervous.  Don't look inward thinking the worst of yourself but think that the nerves are a good thing and look forward to the date.

What are you so scared about though?  Scared to get attached or scared to get rejected? 

As Buck Rogers said in episode 1 of Vinyl "You've got to face your fears, face yours fears.... face your fears"

I've found the hardest thing is to get out of the car sometimes.  First dates when I arrive, if I sit in that car I start to get nervous and question myself, but once I force myself out of the car, all of that smoke in my head disappears and its go time.  Time to be yourself and see if you can woo the woman.  Got to put all of those thoughts in your head to the side and be confident in yourself.

I'll respond to both of you at the same time.

It's not that I'm thinking the worst of myself. I'm just concerned about getting close to the other person. I do not want to go through another destructive breakup.  It's another person to introduce into my daughter's life eventually. She doesn't understand certain things. When she asked where Natalie and Shannen were (my ex-gf and her daughter), and I had to tell her they weren't coming around anymore. The look of confusion and sadness in her eyes broke my heart. She adored them. I can't even talk about it without getting choked up. Sure, break my heart I'll get over it. But what are the ramifications on a five year old who hasn't full grasped the concept of loss? What if she really does understand it but can't express it because of her limited vocabulary? I know I need to just take that risk or else I'll never get anywhere. I know.