Lonely Hearts Club Thread v. The Strong Grip

[Prog Snob]

That's great, Jackie. Just have fun with it.

[bout to crash]

That's what I keep telling myself! We sat around watching movies yesterday and it was nice. Today he woke up super sick, thanks to me. He knew it was a risk but I still felt bad, so I brought him some minestrone and gelato after work and gave him a little back rub. Men when they're all sick and pouty are the cutest thing 

[cramx3]

That's very nice of you! He must really like you to take that risk, like I said before, I wouldn't choose to hang out with someone who is sick even if I did like that person.

[bout to crash]

I would definitely hang with somebody sick, but I wouldn't necessarily kiss them and whatnot. Depends on the situation- but I definitely have before in new relationships when we're still in that can't-keep-our-hands-off-each-other stage. I was content with just having it be a PG-rated date, but he went in for the smooch! I mentioned the sick thing and he said "Well, I'm just hoping you're not contagious." Oh well  ... he's feeling a bit better today, so that's good. I'm not sure when I'll see him next because my shit is about to get crazy, so that kinda sucks 

[Prog Snob]

As long as he didn't have SARS or motaba I'm sure you'll be okay.   

[Chino]

I would definitely hang with somebody sick, but I wouldn't necessarily kiss them and whatnot. Depends on the situation- but I definitely have before in new relationships when we're still in that can't-keep-our-hands-off-each-other stage. I was content with just having it be a PG-rated date, but he went in for the smooch! I mentioned the sick thing and he said "Well, I'm just hoping you're not contagious." Oh well  ... he's feeling a bit better today, so that's good. I'm not sure when I'll see him next because my shit is about to get crazy, so that kinda sucks 

Sometimes a really good 'session' is worth getting sick for a week.

[bout to crash]

 

[Prog Snob]

I would definitely hang with somebody sick, but I wouldn't necessarily kiss them and whatnot. Depends on the situation- but I definitely have before in new relationships when we're still in that can't-keep-our-hands-off-each-other stage. I was content with just having it be a PG-rated date, but he went in for the smooch! I mentioned the sick thing and he said "Well, I'm just hoping you're not contagious." Oh well  ... he's feeling a bit better today, so that's good. I'm not sure when I'll see him next because my shit is about to get crazy, so that kinda sucks 

Sometimes a really good 'session' is worth getting sick for a week.

Testify

[sylvan]

I turned the corner last week thanks to you guys. It wasn't the worst, and I'm sure I would have been good in a couple days, but it was just enough to get me out of my head. When I got out of my head, I decided to move on. I went on OKC and messaged a woman with some similar interests (running, music, she's obsessed with GOLF! and so am I ). After I messaged her with fingers crossed, I did the quick match and she came up. I "liked" her and found out she had already liked me. She messaged me that night, and we talked shortly. I told her I was a lifetime local, and she said that the transplants need the locals to show them the secret spots and help make new friends. I asked her what her style was and never heard anything. I sent a short message on Sunday, something simple about Halloween. I was killing time on there yesterday when I got another message. We talked much more last night, and I went for the "date" again, trying to see where she's been and that I can find us a secret spot to check out. No reply. Oh well. I wake up to find she replied later last night to the tune of "Ive been to a few places but need to check out more. What's your secret plan?" I told her I would let her know how awesome the golf boards (golf cart crossed w/ skateboard, so motorized off road board) are when I play today. I'm gonna latch on to patience as the theme here, but I'm optimistic now, as fas as I can read the signs.

I also sent a text to the woman who is, at this point no doubt, ignoring me. It was simple and innocent, but its almost impossible to not sound desperate in that situation without outright saying otherwise. That took forever to send, but I guess I've got another ghost. "I see dead people."

[Stadler]

Keep your head up, and good luck!

Just remember, confidence is attractive, and the more patience you show, the more confident you seem, ergo, the more attractive you seem. 

[bout to crash]

True that. Well, this new lady seems promising. Hopefully you can meet her soon 

[sylvan]

Well I talked to her on Thursday and she agreed to a meetup. She doesn't do food on first dates, which isn't necessarily odd, I've just never come across that. Whatevs. I sent her a short message on Friday to see if she was watching the golf tournament and got no reply. I'm out of town until Wednesday and would like to be able to message her with an idea for some plans (not just Wanna do something?, but Wanna do this specifically?), but I'm in my head too much right now with all these ideas of how to do this dance.

This whole game of patience, which is really just another way of saying "Wanna say something? Don't! Wait on it," is strange. I get it, but it just adds another element to think about. That, and women are confusing me right now. I had been texting with someone and she was excited  to meet up, but her upcoming week was busy. The next week I try to contact her to set something up and haven't heard from her at all. All things considered, I did nothing to fuck this up. I'm gonna text her today and see if she's busy or just changed her mind.

[bout to crash]

That's annoying. The way I see it, even if you're super busy you can at least shoot out a reply saying that. It's just manners, yo. Unless your job involves being underwater for days or something.

Not doing food on first dates is... a bit weird. What is her reasoning? Do you think she eats like a vacuum cleaner and is hoping you will be initially charmed by her enough to forgive it when you finally see her shoveling handfuls of meat into her face for 45 minutes?

[sylvan]

Yeah, I got no reply on that, so she must be at Sea Lab. 

The food thing "surprised" me, but I don't really care one way or another.

It seems like I made better connections when I was new to this whole thing. The more I do this, the more rules there are. I get it, all the advice and suggestions are meant to help. But it makes it seem like every woman is on guard and ready to bail on someone the moment they percieve any one of these undesirable traits. I don't want to be afraid to try and connect with someone. And all this focus on the meetup, which is obviously the important part, makes me feel like I need to push for the date and hold back on the other stuff. Is it really that much of a red flag if someone is trying to strike up a convo about shared interests, in hopes of identifying some sort of chemistry going into a first date?

[cramx3]

Nothing odd about not doing food on first dates.  It means if things are bad, you can get out quickly, plus I feel like some people don't like to eat in front of others they don't know on a first time meeting.  I don't think I have ever had food besides like an appetizer or snack on a first date which even that is rare.  Mostly it's usually just a couple drinks at a bar and some chit chatting.  After that, it's all game for food.  I did meet one girl who flat out just did not like eating out so there is always that too.

[bout to crash]

If things are really that terrible, you can leave any situation, including one with food. I still think it's weird. I've eaten on plenty of first dates. I do understand the appeal of just having a drink and talking/getting to know each other and have done that plenty too, but if people are that self-conscious about doing something as basic as eating (you know, something you do daily to stay alive) in front of another person, maybe they shouldn't be dating.

[Stadler]

Nothing odd about not doing food on first dates.  It means if things are bad, you can get out quickly, plus I feel like some people don't like to eat in front of others they don't know on a first time meeting.  I don't think I have ever had food besides like an appetizer or snack on a first date which even that is rare.  Mostly it's usually just a couple drinks at a bar and some chit chatting.  After that, it's all game for food.  I did meet one girl who flat out just did not like eating out so there is always that too.

Plus the "to pay or not to pay" thing, plus the recent trend of "special diets" (gluten-free, etc.).   Not common, but not too big a red flag.

Look Sylvan, the problem with rules is that there are always exceptions.   Who knows?  Maybe she was juggling two guys on your first discussion, and in the meantime she went out with him and thinks he is the perfect one?   Who knows?   I know for me, gertting back in the dating scene after my divorce was first and foremost a lesson in humility; one, not every woman is attracted to me (I know!  Shock!), not every woman is desperately waiting for me to beat down her door and sweep her away, but most importantly, you can't control what each woman values.  You just have to be who you are and hopefully that will click.  I guess I was lucky, in that every time that happened, I found someone I liked better, to remind me that there really is more fish in the sea.  I remember going on two dates with this neat girl that I really felt there was a connection with (one of our first conversations was an unplanned text session while she was stuck in Wal-Mart; it was hilarious) and she just had a very set idea as to what the progress of her relationship was going to be, and I didn't meet it.  I was really hurt, but I just thought, "if that's all it took to cause her to lose focus, that's on her not me, and thank god I found out now and not when kids were involved or something like that".  To this day, I really don't know what did end it, but I tend to think I didn't walk the "show respect/prove I'm not in it just for a f***/show passion/show I am physically attracted to her" line well enough.  But who knows?    You can't beat yourself up over someone else's perferences.

[cramx3]

If things are really that terrible, you can leave any situation, including one with food. I still think it's weird. I've eaten on plenty of first dates. I do understand the appeal of just having a drink and talking/getting to know each other and have done that plenty too, but if people are that self-conscious about doing something as basic as eating (you know, something you do daily to stay alive) in front of another person, maybe they shouldn't be dating.

Probably true, but I think adding food adds more things to an already nervous situation.  Sure anyone can jsut leave, but if you have an order of food coming then you need to worry about money and stopping the order and whatnot which is not quite the same as just dropping a 10 on the counter and walking out.  I have never experienced that btw, I just read that on many dating sites.  A year ago when I first entered the online dating thing, I read a lot about what to do as I had not been single in almost 10 years.  It was pretty much standard on those readings that you never get food on a first date, unless things go well and it turns into a meal, which has happened to me before.  I am not saying you cannot go for food or anything, but I totally get the mindset of no food and for me, I wouldnt choose to get food either.

[Prog Snob]

Well I've been texting with two different women at the moment. It looks like one of them (Marissa) is really looking to meet me either tomorrow or Wednesday. She seems genuinely sweet and down-to-earth, so I'm hoping something ignites between us. The other girl (Heather) also wants to meet sometime this week, or at least speak on the phone first. She seems down-to-earth, classy, and reminds of Carla Gugino. As much as I love a jeans and  t-shirt girl, there's something about a woman in a dress (or blouse and skirt) and heels that appeals to this whole different side of me.

So we'll see if either of them work out. I was also talking to some other girl but she was way too pushy for my taste, so I stopped talking to her altogether.

[Sub Luna Vitrea]

Back on OKCupid again (I feel like such a drama queen for always starting and then deleting it). Have been talking to a man who lives about an hour away; he is a vegan and he is into quite a lot of the same things I am into, although he is unfamiliar with some of it and eager to learn more.

We were talking about the possibility of meeting off site, and at this point I told him, "By the way, I'm trans, but I'm sure you knew that already." And he replied, "I had no idea you were trans, although I had dated a trans woman once before." This makes me feel unbelievably happy and euphoric, and I have been so overjoyed by the fact that he said this yesterday that I have forgotten to reply!

[sylvan]

Back on OKCupid again (I feel like such a drama queen for always starting and then deleting it).

Is this a common thing for women? Is it a product of being overwhelmed by jackasses or total number of daily messages? I was talking to someone who was a GREAT match, and we even agreed that a meetup would be good. Then I went on a few days later to try and lock down plans and her profile was deactivated. I should have gotten her number. Big time bummer.

[sylvan]

Interesting day:

I finally decided to email my old "ghost". I've been thinking about her for various reasons for months now. I finally just had to try again. She replied! WTF! I am 99% fucking blown away surprised that I heard back from her. Now I don't know what to do, like I never really had any plan for this. It's not like I want anything specifically, but I still badly wanna talk about the past, and I'm sure that won't do any good. I think this might be one of those situations that will test my skills as an adult. Oh, and Jackie, it took way more than 30 mins to hit send on that one. Holy shit .

Been talking to a cool woman and got her number and we're planning on making plans lol. Something next week. I'm excited cuz we've got some solid shared interests, and she's tall and attractive. But she would be the first woman I've seen that's my age, and not younger. She's 32, I'm 31. I've found that women do mature faster than men, and that's why the younger women I've gone out with said they dated up. But, that's why I've dated down. I don't really identify as 31, and am more at a point in my life similar to being 25. This makes me nervous that she might not be into "someone like me".

Turns out the other woman was at SeaLab. By that, I mean she was already busy and then her grandma had a stroke. I sent her a message online, not a text. She sent me like 7 text explaining and apologizing for leaving me hanging. It might be a little bit before we can meet up, but I'm gonna talk to her about maybe connecting more on the phone until then.

I sent a message to my new "ghost", trying to find out how we got to the point where I deserve the ambivalence she's shown me. I'm legitimately trying to learn something from this. I don't need to feel like I'm making a mutual connection with an awesome woman only to have them disappear into thin air. Haven't heard back on that one yet, but we'll see. She's a therapist, so she should know how irresponsible this move is.

And then there's one more, but nothing really to say on that one. She seems cool, in the  "Are you cool, mannn" type of way. Trying to lock down a date, but she works weird hours.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, somebody who's a therapist SHOULD know, in theory, but all that shit goes out the window in your own relationships. Trust me, I'm a social worker 
That one guy I briefly dated who randomly bailed on me was a counselor, and I kept having to remind myself that doesn't make somebody good at this shit.

So what did your ghost say back?? I'm shocked she replied. Man!

I have not seen this new dude in a while because I've been so busy with the film festival. I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like he's been less willing to make effort... like, come down to my hood vs. me going to his. Right now we're 3-1 on that. He is off work Sunday so I suggested we maybe have dinner (I'll be done with the film fest around 6) and he said sure, that I should stay over his place. I've explained this to him before, but I can't just stay at his house, which is 30+ minutes away from my work territory, on a work night. It would be irresponsible of me- if I were to get a call at 8am, I'd be stuck trying to get down south in rush hour traffic. It's just silly, and it would get me shit from my job. He doesn't want to stay with me because he has trouble sleeping in general and even more so in the beds of others, which I totally get, but that doesn't mean he can't come down and hang with me for the evening. He sort of left it at "we'll see" and that kind of annoyed me- like, we can only hang out on your terms, and if I suggest something else suddenly you're maybe not as free as you were ten minutes ago? Meh, maybe I've overanalyzing but I was a bit peeved at that. I feel like when you're dating somebody who lives in a different area, you should go 50/50 on things. You come to my hood, then I go to yours. I am not going to be driving up to your ass every time we hang out! Especially when I have a job that involves driving all fucking day. *grumblegrumble*

On the bright side, he agreed to be my date to Star Wars

[cramx3]

I could see how that is frustrating.  Many times the women I have seen never invite my to their place.  A bunch lived with their parents still so thats fine, but I was surprised with the ones who live on their own not inviting me.  I've only spent time at one girls house before and when we dated it was fairly split on whos house we'd hang at.  But for the others, since they never invited me, I always invited them over and its much more comfortable/convenient for me so I can't complain, but always wondered why it was so one sided.

[Prog Snob]

I could see how that is frustrating.  Many times the women I have seen never invite my to their place.  A bunch lived with their parents still so thats fine, but I was surprised with the ones who live on their own not inviting me.  I've only spent time at one girls house before and when we dated it was fairly split on whos house we'd hang at.  But for the others, since they never invited me, I always invited them over and its much more comfortable/convenient for me so I can't complain, but always wondered why it was so one sided.

I think it's about personal space and not revealing too much of themselves just yet. It's one thing to meet someone in person, share a drink or three, but when they enter your personal space, which is a glaring reflection of who you are, it's like shedding every barrier you have surrounding yourself and allowing this person to know everything.

[Stadler]

Staying over... there is a lot there that is probably not evident on the surface.  There's the idea that the "invitor" gets to set the plan.  I invite you to dinner and a movie and... it's probably perceived more often than not that "me inviting myself to your place" is rude.  So there's that. 

But for me - and I don't think this applies to Jackie, since it doesn't seem she's looking to settle down with this guy - it's a sort of meta thing.  I will do whatever feels right, until it doesn't.   Meaning, I would stay over that guy's house until it bothers me, then at that point I have a choice:   say something or eat it, and if I say something and he agrees, win, if he doesn't I have to evaluate if I like him enough to have my bluff called.   I was engaged to my now wife before I stayed over at her house ONCE.  I understood this, because a) she had kids, b) she had an unpredictable ex that lived a couple houses away (and has been known to engage in vandalism and confrontation), and c) hated being there (except for her kids).  We were honest with each other, there was nothing hidden, and we dealt with it. 

For you, Jackie, I would make it my problem:  if he won't step out of his comfort zone, what matters more:  my time with him or the potential to take a zinger at work?

[bout to crash]

Honestly, at this point it's the latter. Because there are so many options for hanging out that don't involve me sleeping at his place. I live alone (he has two roommates), my place is nice enough, he seems to like my cats... so I'm not sure why he's so opposed to coming down here. Again, I get the sleep thing but we don't have to have a sleepover every time we hang. And sure, it's a half hour drive, but it's the same for me. I was the one who suggested dinner, then he made it an invite for me to stay over. Meh, I dunno. I'm not going to make a big thing of it (because you're right, definitely not settling down here) but I'm also not going to set a standard where he's always getting his way. The way I see Sunday- I've just spent the entire week driving for work AND for the film festival. Hours and hours of driving. If he can't make the effort to drive 30min down to me, maybe we can make plans for another day.

[Stadler]

Look, I have my biases like everyone else (one of mine is I HATE being taken for a fool), so take that for what it is, but this just smacks of "not willing to put in the effort" on his part to me. 

[bout to crash]

No, I agree. I understand the feeling- of course you'd prefer the other person to come to you because it's more convenient, and I've had relationships where I was totally that person (mostly because of the other's living situation)... so I'm trying to be fair about it, but when there's this much distance between us I'm not willing to totally flip it around and be the one who always drives up to fucking Arvada. So I'm just going to put my foot down about it regarding this weekend. If he doesn't wanna come down here, then we won't hang out unless he has a really good argument/offer for my coming up there.

[sylvan]

I hate sleeping anywhere but my own bed. I just spent two days in a sweet ass resort and got shit sleep on that mattress. And maybe it's just because I'm not getting any ,  but if someone I was into invited me over for the night, I'm not sure what excuse would keep me from that. At least you've got a date for Star Wars!

So what did your ghost say back?? I'm shocked she replied. Man!

I think shocked is an understatement for myself. I just asked some innocent questions about how things have been, and I  told her that I think about her occasionally and want to talk to her sometimes. That I dont wanna beat a dead horse, I'm not sure what to expect from this, the past is the past, and to just think of me as a friend she hasnt heard from in a while.

She said she was surprised to hear from me and it's very sweet I still think of her. She gave a short rundown on what she's been up to. She said she took her mother recently to the coffee shop we went to on our first date and she thought about me there.

I'm just thinking about what I actually hope to accomplish with this. I would have bet money that I would never have contact with her again. Now I don't know what to do. But I guess friendly conversation is a good place to start. I just know that the feeling to ask about what happened will eventually overwhelm me until I ask.

[cramx3]

If I invited someone over and they refused or made excuses over and over, I would have to walk away from that.  I agree about the effort.  It needs to be both ways and good for you to stand your ground Jackie, especially early in any relationship.

[King Postwhore]

I'd take a sore back for punani.

[bout to crash]

Right?! 

I mean, he has legitimate sleep issues so I get that, but I'm saying he can still come down to my place even if he doesn't sleep over. We don't have to sleep together every time we hang out, though it's nice to not worry about driving back home later at night.

So here's a new thing: I think he might be upset with me. Basically our text conversation yesterday evening went like this:
T: I just found out my auntie died. She was the family matriarch
J: Oh no! I'm sorry ... Was she sick?
T: She was 96
J: Well, enough said. That's pretty cool though- most people don't see that age
T: Ya.
(so three hours elapse and I'm starting to think "oh gawd, was I talking too casually about that?)
J: I hope that didn't come off as insensitive, it's just sort of the way I've grown to look at things in my line of work (hospice, for anybody who doesn't know that). Your family doing okay?
T: Nah, it's cool. At first I kinda thought it was until I remembered what you do. I'm hoping to go to her memorial in Florida, but we'll see if I can afford it
J: I hope you can. Do you know when it is? (+insert some talk about the possibility of getting bereavement fare though a lot of airlines don't do that anymore)
(two hours elapse with nothing)
J: Well, I hope you're doing okay

I've not heard from him since, in like 12+ hours. I'm hoping it's just him being sad about things, but I'm wondering if either he was expecting me to say/do something that I didn't, or he's upset about me (gawd forbid) being an optimist. Honestly, the fact that he brought up being able to afford the ticket makes me wonder if he was hoping I would offer to give him money or something. I'm trying not to assume anything, but it's weird to me that he would put it out there and then stop talking to me about it. At this point I don't know what else I can do, so I guess I just wait to see if I hear from him 


edit: he eventually wrote back and seems to be okay, but isn't talking to me much. He may be at work so again trying not to read too much into it.

[sylvan]

It sounds like he understands your position, but it also sounds like he's pretty sad about this. Grieving is different for everyone. He might be in a weird place for a little bit. I guess all you can do is try.

[bout to crash]

So yeah, he barely texted me all day. We talked briefly about the plane ticket thing- he said he probably couldn't afford it because he has to get some work done on his car. I asked if he could borrow from his family and he said probably, but doesn't want to ask. I said something like "Well, that's your call but if you think it's important to go and say goodbye, it might be worth it." He never responded to that, so I don't know what else to say/do at this point