Lonely Hearts Club Thread v. The Strong Grip

[bout to crash]

I agree with Stadler, presence is way more important than what to say. Take it from a social worker trained to sit with people at really shitty times in their lives (hospice). I mean, you don't want to be totally silent if she tells you something shitty happened, but you can just say you're sorry and ask her if she needs anything, that sort of thing. And yeah, show her you care with actions.

As for why you keep falling for psychologists, it's because us brain-pickin' types (I studied psych) are awesome.

I must have misread; I thought you said that he claimed his girl was having second thoughts?   Maybe I'm not getting that there are two guys here?   In any event, honesty is important in any relationship, but in my view, the more parties involved, the more critical it gets.  That's all I was saying.

Yes, that is true. And yeah, two different guys. The second guy was the one who had the uncertain girlfriend. Third guy decided out of the blue that he was uncertain  (First guy was the one a couple weeks ago who was all like "I can't date right now" all of a sudden- fucking OKC .)
He never responded to my "I don't know if I want to be friends because I feel hurt" text, unsurprisingly. I'm betting he only asked because he felt guilty, but who knows.

[Stadler]

As for myself, I am still seeing the same girl.  We hung out last night and watched the Mets game together.  I really like her, but as I am getting to know her better, I am realizing she has A LOT of personal problems that are really effecting her, specifically her father passed away a couple months before we met and her mother is in a really bad physical and mental place.  I feel like that is really weighing heavily on her lately, like ever since she opened up about it to me she is always very somber around me now.  Sort of like now that I know she isnt happy with her family life, she can openly display that.  It's fine and all, I feel bad for her, but my problem is I am TERRIBLE at being the shoulder to cry on.  Not that I don't want to be nice, I really do, I just am VERY poor at saying the right things in these situations.  I end up bottling up sometimes when talking about emotions and whatnot.  I guess I am just talking outloud as it is not really a problem, but something I worry about being able to be a good partner here.  My x always had this complaint about me, I tried to explain that it isnt that I dont care, it's that I don't know how to say the right things to comfort someone when they are looking for it.  I just hope she doesn't see it differently.  There is also an alarming trend with the girls I fall for... they are all psychologists.  I dont know what that means, maybe a psychologist can tell me.

Not a psychologist, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so...

You don't have to say ANYTHING.  Listen.  Hug her.   Hold her hand.  Make her dinner.  Bone her (I say with respect).  Whatever it is you DO do, and whatever it is that resonates with her.  Me, I hate when someone tries to "talk me down"; I don't need that.  I need to be made to feel wanted, however that has to happen.  That's why my wife is so special; she doesn't go out of her head to try to say the exact right thing.  But she does come up with a crock pot of BBQ, or decides to wear THAT nightie to bed, or whatever it takes. 

You can do that too.

Thanks for the advice, makes a lot of sense.  I think I just got conditioned by my x that I need to say something, which is something she always complained about "why do you never say anything when Im upset?"  The rest like you said is the easy part, I have no problems with physically being there for her.

And I've spent almost 40 nights this year in holiday inn expresses lol

There's a great book - for the concept, if not the execution - called "The Languages of Love" which is must reading for anyone and even in a "non-romantic" setting.   It talks about how certain people respond to certain things, and you have to "talk" to them in the language THEY understand, not that you know how to speak, in order to connect.  Your "ex" was a words person.  That's what she needed.   Find out what this girl needs to connect.  Perhaps she will be more flexible and take what you give her as opposed to demanding it be her way or the highway (my ex was like that too).

[cramx3]

Cool, clearly I am not the psychologist one in my relationships lol never thought about it like that.  I guess I don't work well with the "needs to hear it" type sicne like I said, that is something I struggle with.  The showing it is something I can do.

[bout to crash]

I'm better at that myself as well.

Soo, after my three OKC strikes I'm a bit hesitant but I did agree to meet a guy for ice cream. We've talked a bunch and he seems cool, but definitely not getting my hopes up.

On another front, here's a little story: Two years ago, when I was on my big birthday road trip, I met this super cute guy (DT fan, btw) who worked at a brewery in Idaho. We exchanged numbers and I was totally crushing on him but I assumed nothing would come of it because he lived in fucking Idaho. Well, he ended up moving here. He contacted me... maybe sometime last year?... to tell me that, and we eventually met up for a beer. I was finding him hard to read and nothing happened. We went our separate ways and neither of us reached out to the other for a long time.
Well, Wednesday I was in search of a pack of gum while on the road for work and I happened to be passing the store he once told me he worked at. My gut told me to go there, so I did. Turns out he no longer works there (and they had no gum), but I still had his number so I texted him to say hi and we kept talking. We made plans to get a beer next week and just kept texting a bunch over the next couple days. I was getting a bit of a flirty vibe so I turned it up a notch to see how he would respond. He asked if he could sweet talk me into meeting on his side of town (we live maybe half an hour from each other) and I asked "What's in it for me?  " which led into some innuendo. I later told him I was going to an amateur porn festival so the conversation went in that direction. I made a sort of joke about showing him this hilarious-looking porn I recently bought, and he said something like "That would set a different tone for the evening. Totally down." Today he texted asking how my day was going while I happened to be taking a selfie of a Halloween costume I've been working on, and I ended up sending him a pic that involved some cleavage... which he commented positively on.

Anyway, the reason I'm going into detail about all of this is because I'm always so uncertain about whether I'm reading signals correctly, but at this point I think it's pretty obvious he's in the same boat as I am. Now the question is whether I will have the ovaries to actually say something and/or make a move if he doesn't. I'm getting better at that but still super shy about it because I'm afraid of being turned down for whatever reason. I know I'm preaching to the choir- I think lots of people (if not most) get terrified putting themselves out there like that. I suppose I don't have much to lose at this point, since it's not like we're close/haven't even talked in a long time prior to this week, so worst case scenario we go back to not talking. Still, I feel like a chicken! We shall see. I am anxiously awaiting Marty McFly Day. Stay tuned...

[cramx3]

I suppose I don't have much to lose at this point

THIS.  Whenever I feel like I am holding myself back from doing something that may put me outside my comfort zone (and going in for the first move is putting yourself out there) I ALWAYS tell myself that.  It's really been my personal motto since becoming single.

[bout to crash]

True.

Now, I'm curious what you dudes have to say about this: I was talking with my neighbor about this situation yesterday and she was ADAMANT about me not making the move with this guy. She says even if he's shy, he needs to chase. Not because I should try to play a game with him, but because if he's not being the aggressor he will lose interest in me. I think some people are like that, but ultimately it's an opinion based on male/female stereotypes... and some guys are just fucking shy, and/or they like the woman to take charge. I don't know him well enough to know but I feel like at this point, we've both made it clear that we're into each other (today things progressed even further into flirt territory), so it doesn't really matter who makes the move. Thoughts?

In other news, I had a very nice date with the lady tonight. Steak, followed by a drink at a mostly-lesbian bar and some making out

[jonnybaxy]

True.

Now, I'm curious what you dudes have to say about this: I was talking with my neighbor about this situation yesterday and she was ADAMANT about me not making the move with this guy. She says even if he's shy, he needs to chase. Not because I should try to play a game with him, but because if he's not being the aggressor he will lose interest in me. I think some people are like that, but ultimately it's an opinion based on male/female stereotypes... and some guys are just fucking shy, and/or they like the woman to take charge. I don't know him well enough to know but I feel like at this point, we've both made it clear that we're into each other (today things progressed even further into flirt territory), so it doesn't really matter who makes the move. Thoughts?

In other news, I had a very nice date with the lady tonight. Steak, followed by a drink at a mostly-lesbian bar and some making out

Personally I prefer not chasing, everything's so much easier when its just there, I feel that always chasing makes me feel that the other person isn't interested, but I understand the idea of "guys want what they can't have" at the same time...

Everyone's different I guess

[Chino]

True.

Now, I'm curious what you dudes have to say about this: I was talking with my neighbor about this situation yesterday and she was ADAMANT about me not making the move with this guy. She says even if he's shy, he needs to chase. Not because I should try to play a game with him, but because if he's not being the aggressor he will lose interest in me. I think some people are like that, but ultimately it's an opinion based on male/female stereotypes... and some guys are just fucking shy, and/or they like the woman to take charge. I don't know him well enough to know but I feel like at this point, we've both made it clear that we're into each other (today things progressed even further into flirt territory), so it doesn't really matter who makes the move. Thoughts?

Your neighbor is wrong.

[Lynxo]

True.

Now, I'm curious what you dudes have to say about this: I was talking with my neighbor about this situation yesterday and she was ADAMANT about me not making the move with this guy. She says even if he's shy, he needs to chase. Not because I should try to play a game with him, but because if he's not being the aggressor he will lose interest in me. I think some people are like that, but ultimately it's an opinion based on male/female stereotypes... and some guys are just fucking shy, and/or they like the woman to take charge. I don't know him well enough to know but I feel like at this point, we've both made it clear that we're into each other (today things progressed even further into flirt territory), so it doesn't really matter who makes the move. Thoughts?

Your neighbor is wrong.

This. People are different people. I'd  say a shy guy probably doesn't need a "chase" - just go for it! He probabaly appreciates that a lot more.

[sylvan]

Now, I'm curious what you dudes have to say about this:

I kinda wanted to poll everyone on a similar topic, so lets see if this helps. I've seen this woman twice, and we get along great, and she says she's up for it again. But, she's been away/busy, and I'm starting to lose patience. At this point, waiting is hard because I don't know what she really thinks about me/this. I don't know how to flirt through text, or how to lead an interaction down that road. It makes me feel awkward. I'm trying to figure out how hard to press on this. If we do go out again, that tells me really all I need to know, and then I need to find the balls to make a real move. I have no problem chasing if I feel like its worthwhile. I've chased after someone not interested before, never again! Maybe make him chase a little, like don't show up on his door step naked with a bow on. If you feel the vibe, give in.

But yeah, your neighbor is wrong.

[Stadler]

Neighbor is wrong, but not 100% wrong.  Like everything else in this world, it's not crystal clear black and white.    I think it depends on the move.  I don't like to guess, but on the same token, I don't want to be totally emasculated either.   Be clear with your feelings and intentions, but give him the opportunity to feel like his intentions matter too.   If you want to bang him, there are ways of making it clear to him without making him a passive spectator - a stunt cock if you will - on your way to Orgasmville.   Put it out there, but let him take the bait might be your best bet. 

I don't mean that to sound so new-age-y and intellectual.  I'm saying, make it organic.   A woman who knows what she wants and is willing to meet me halfway on achieving that is hot.  A woman who's all "Are we knockin' boots tonight, or what, because "Blacklist" is on" is not. 

[Chino]

The sexiest thing about my girlfriend when I first met her was the fact that she through all that traditional game bullshit out the window. Heck, she even paid on the first date.

[cramx3]

I dont think the neighbor is right or wrong.  There is no right way for that, and it all depends on situation.

I am kind of old school in that I feel like as the male, I should make the first move.  Not trying to be sexist or anything, I just feel like I should take control if that is my intention (and maybe that is my personality and has nothing to do with being a male).  Many women have told me they like a guy who takes control.

I will say this though, if a girl were to make the first move on me and assuming I was interested, it would be a huge turn on.  I have always made the first move historically, but there was one instance where I usually say that "she fucked me".  Essentially I invited a college friend over who I had hooked up with before but we were just friends and when she got to my house she just went at it with me, pushed me to my bed, got on top and took full control.  It honestly is the most memorable sex experience I have had because of how she just went after me (it was also really good sex). 

[King Postwhore]

Jackie,  don't listen to her.  Chase if that makes you happy. It's not about preconceptions.

[bout to crash]

Well, I don't like chasing. But sometimes, with shy dudes, I feel like I have to or nothing will ever happen. I get the feeling this guy is that way when it comes to women, which is why I started to put feelers out via text, to sort of... set the mood for tomorrow, I guess. I feel like it worked, and it's not like I've been super aggressive with him. But there's just been lots of innuendo and stuff that we'd both have to be fucking autistic to misread at this point. So maybe we'll both have a bit more confidence going into it. And who knows, maybe my being flirty will encourage him to make the move, which I would realllly prefer.  I can count on one hand how many times I've had to do it, and it's still hella uncomfortable.

Anyway, you all had great stuff to say, thanks 

sylvan, I feel your pain on that. When you don't know for sure where you stand with somebody it makes it a lot harder to sit around waiting, and to know if it's worth it. Can you ask her what she thinks about you/this?

[sylvan]

sylvan, I feel your pain on that. When you don't know for sure where you stand with somebody it makes it a lot harder to sit around waiting, and to know if it's worth it. Can you ask her what she thinks about you/this?

I could, and wouldn't be afraid to, but I think whether she wants to go out again will tell me what I need to know. I asked her about going out Friday. I haven't heard anything yet. That discourages me, but she could just be busy. If for some reason I don't hear anything, or she continues with the "sometime for sure" thing, I'll be direct about knowing what she thinks.

It seems like the tone's been set for your date. If you continue with that tone when you get together, you probably won't have to make the first move .

[bout to crash]

I hope not! And I hope you hear back soon 

[cramx3]

Here is one thing I hate about dating, specifically the beginning phase of meeting someone and it goes along with sylvan's current issue... why is it that women (I would assume men do this too, but I don't date men so I can say for sure) purposely wait to respond to texts?  Here is how I know they purposely don't respond... before a girl meets me they take their sweet time responding to messages and then afterward they meet me they all of the sudden have much quicker responses.  I've noticed this with literally every girl I have dated.  The turn around I have seen has sometimes been as bad as 1 hour response time to 1 minute response time lol

[Stadler]

I think the answer is obvious:  fear.  You hear all kinds of stuff about this in all those stupid "used to be Tom Hanks, now is Zac Efron" movies about "not being too eager" and "not appearing desperate".   There is a REALLY fine line between excited and desperate.  The first is a massive turn on, the second is a massive turn OFF (at least for me). 

[cramx3]

But just responding in a timely matter is not a sign of desperate.  I get that if you are like on top of your phone responding to a stranger, it COULD give that impression.  We all know everyone is attached to their phones these days, why do we just play pretend with this?  It's all part of the game, I know, but just seems ridiculous like many other facets of the game.

[sylvan]

What Stadler said goes both ways. How do you let someone know that you're excited to see them again, and excited to see where something can go, without seeming desperate and overly eager? I'd say the multiple times I've talked about going out again over the last few weeks should be a good indicator that I want to see her again, but I'm very aware about not beating it to death. That's why it's getting discouraging. I don't think she would have any reason to fear seeming "desperate", we both know she's not.

[Chino]

What Stadler said goes both ways. How do you let someone know that you're excited to see them again, and excited to see where something can go, without seeming desperate and overly eager?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but emojis. I know it sounds insane, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. Knowing how to appropriately apply emojis to what would otherwise be 'open to interpretation' text can do wonders for conversations via text. There is an art form to them and they can greatly enhance a conversation if used properly.

[cramx3]

What Stadler said goes both ways. How do you let someone know that you're excited to see them again, and excited to see where something can go, without seeming desperate and overly eager?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but emojis. I know it sounds insane, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. Knowing how to appropriately apply emojis to what would otherwise be 'open to interpretation' text can do wonders for conversations via text. There is an art form to them and they can greatly enhance a conversation if used properly.

I love emojis.  I use them all the time when talking to females.. and never when talking to males unless its purely comic 

[bout to crash]

I agree, I use them a lot.
And yeah, I think it's not wanting to seem desperate for sure (and with some people, game playing). I won't usually wait a long time, but sometimes if I happen to be looking at my phone and a text comes through right then, I'll wait maybe 5 minutes to respond so it doesn't look like I'm just sitting there waiting for him to text. There have been times I've waited a lot longer because the guy was doing that. Like when that one douche was taking a day to get back to me, there was no way I was going to respond to him immediately and make him think I was ready to drop everything to talk to him.

But remember this: sometimes people are just busy, and you should never expect immediate responses via text.

[cramx3]

totally, people have lives and whatnot, my point was more on averages.  No one is so busy that they need a day to respond to a text (obviously there are situations like this, but not normally in American society where we have our phones stitched to our palms).

The girl ive been seeing has told me before she doesnt like texting sometimes because she doesnt want to bother me.  For which I told her she is never bothering me, the worst that can happen is I am busy and will respond when I am free.  Sometimes I am in a meeting at work, sometimes my hands are full... but it will never take me more than 8 hours to respond to someone unless I am ignoring them.  She got it and texts when she wants and I respond timely as does she, but that was not the case for the first couple weeks of communicating.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. There's more uncertainty in the beginning, so I think that's a big part of it.

[sylvan]

Let's bring this into the next stage of this "dilemma" currently being discussed. It's now been over a day since I sent a message specifically about going out Friday. She may very well be busy, and still may respond at some point. But, what would you guys do here? I'm certainly not happy about being left hanging, but it hasn't reached a point of no return yet. Would you follow up, or is the ball in their court? Is there a time when not hearing from them at all deserves a follow up text, or do you ride it out until you haven't spoken in X amount of days? Where's the balance between anger and still wanting to try something? I'm certainly not one to just let someone fade away silently. If it's "over", it would be nice to know, not just guess.

Pure speculation at this point. Call this prepping.

[cramx3]

If I were to ask a girl to go out and she didnt respond after 24 hours, I would think it's not a good sign, sorry to say that.  I don't know what her "busy" situation is, like as I was saying before, if she has some legit reason that she can't use her phone or respond for a day, but that's not normal.  If it's only been 2 dates, I also don't think it's totally odd for someone to just seemingly randomly stop talking.  If I were you, I would send a message like this (and this is like my standard "I think you are ending this, but not saying it so I will say it for you" message)

"Hey, it was really nice meeting you and getting to know you a little bit.  It seems like you may not be interested in meeting up again so I would just like to say good luck in the future"

I've done this before to a girl who stopped talking to me out of no where and it actually got a response along the lines of "yea sorry I am jsut bad at ending things"  which isn't the greatest anser, but it was confirmation of what I believed to be true.  Also a non response is confirmation as well.  And if she was interested but too busy to respond then at that point she would deny it, "oh no I was busy but that's not how I feel"

At the end of the day, you can at least look in the mirror and say you were the bigger person and manned up and fucking said what she couldn't say in a polite and respectful way.

[sylvan]

That's all a really good point. I don't wanna look like some puppy dog that's stuck on somebody, cuz its just not accurate.

I got a message from her this morning. She had to go home (2 hrs away) cuz her mom is in the hospital. She said she'd be there for a few days, and that life is just crazy right now. I told her I'm there if she wants to talk, and that I wanna talk more anyways. I'm not gonna press on anything right now though. I'm in a bit of a holding pattern, but I'm still not sure if it will turn into another date, or just more "I'm busy" run around. You can take someone at their word until you can't. So far, I haven't reached can't, but I feel like I'm moving that way. Whatever though, we'll see what happens.

[cramx3]

Thats good she got back to you and had her reasons, but if I were you, I wouldn't stay in a holding pattern for her.  Keep yourself available to her if she is in fact still interested, but dont hold yourself back from meeting other people.

[Stadler]

Here's what I would do if I was you:  let it rest for a couple days, then, at an off time (meaning, not at 10:30 pm on a Friday when you're hammered with your friends, but a more "contemplative" time, like late Saturday morning) send a quick message that says something to the effect:  "Hey, thought about you today and just wanted to say that I hope your Mom is doing better and you are able to find some time for yourself."   You can word it more appropriately for your conversations, but the point is, touch base, show compassion, and don't make ANY overture about future dates or talking. 

Then early next week - whether you get a response or not to the first one, since it wasn't asking for a response - follow up one more time, to the tune of "hope you are home safe and things are calmer with your mom.  If you're interested in meeting for a beer, let me know!"

Then if you don't hear anything, you can safely say "she's done and is too scared to say so". 

[bout to crash]

I think the above is a good way to handle it. I totally understand the "shit's crazy" thing- I had to tell one guy I honestly wasn't sure when I would be able to hang with him. It's not that I'm not interested because he seems cool, I'm just not going to shuffle my whole schedule around for somebody I haven't even met yet. Your situation is a bit different since you two have hung out, but yeah... sounds like her reason is legit (unless she's the type to make something like that up), so I would say don't sit around waiting but keep yourself available for her and reach out to see how she's doing.

In other news, I had a reallllly good time last night with that guy. He did sorta end up making the "move," in that he put his arm around me at the brewery. We ended up going to his house to watch Back to the Future II, and didn't even make it through the opening credits  (first kiss was sort of a mutual lean-in, so I didn't have to sit there awkwardly wondering if I should go for it)
*sigh*
The whole thing left me in a really good mood. I've been smiling all day. I'm trying not to have any expectations and take it at face value- at the very least, we had an awesome night. If it doesn't go anywhere from here, it was still that.

Cute story: we both have Italian backgrounds, and we've been texting back and forth about Italian foods we like. The other day I went to this market and got a mozzarella/prosciutto sandwich and some pignoli cookies, which I was raving to him about. Yesterday morning/afternoon, he sent me a picture of a cannoli and I was like "Oh man, I'm jealous." He said "Don't be too jealous, because I'm saving it to share with you." I was like "That's funny, because I saved a pignoli cookie for you." 

[cramx3]

The after date smiles! A great feeling 

[bout to crash]

Yeah, especially good in this case because it went even better than expected. Not to mention I've sorta wanted to jump this guy's bones for over two years, and I never thought it would actually happen  ... I told him that and he's like "Why didn't you make a move before?!" and I was like "Because I suck at that, dammit!" Plus I wasn't about to try and bone some guy in Idaho in the middle of my road trip.
Well, the universe tends to unfold as it should, I suppose. I got stood up tonight by some OKC dude and I don't even give a fuck.

[cramx3]

That must have been awesome to finally get to shag with someone you've wanted to do it with for so long

So three weeks ago I had my plans for the awesome Saturday in NYC date with my girl that got cancelled because essentially everything went wrong, well tomorrow we are going through with our plans for the weekend in Baltimore.  As we were both bummed to have to cancel such a fun weekend, I found this weekend because I really wanted to go to the PSU vs. Maryland game and Jess thought it would be awesome to go as well since she loves football and has been following PSU this entire season with me so we said whats stopping us from going?  Anyway got a sick hotel room right by the harbor so we are going to drive tomorrow morning enjoy the game and an evening in the harbor and come home Sunday morning.