Lonely Hearts Club Thread v. The Strong Grip

[Stadler]

Thanks, I just think that's what I am struggling with and patience now.  The idea of moving on or maybe getting back together which leads me to feel like I can't totally commit to either and makes me feel like an emotional wreck.  I think her youth adds something to this as well, I don't feel like her potential desires to do and experience more should be a reason to end things, she could have spoke up about it and we could work on it.  I felt like we had that relationship, clearly I was wrong by being blindsided, but I really thought we could speak up to each other about anything but I'm sure there is more to this than she told me.

Thanks Harmony as well, just saw your post while writing the above. 

The cool thing about all this is that my friends and family have been there for me, it's been nice to see the guys all kind of help me out a bit, or try to.  I'm road tripping solo to the Avantasia concert tomorrow, I hope this helps clear my head a bit.

You've already answered this (rightly, in my opinion):  commit to yourself.    Go out.  See bands.   Don't go out.  Play xBox.   The only thing I would say is, talk to anyone/everyone.   If you're at a bar, just talk to people.  You don't have to be Johnny conversation, just "what beer you drinking?  Any good?" and strike up a convo.   You're not looking to bang the person you're talking to, you're looking to anchor and connect.   

I wouldn't put any timetables on "meeting someone" or "taking her back".    Man plans, and God laughs.   I told you about me; I got back with her in a couple weeks.  My aunt, after two failed marriages, ran into her high school boyfriend - she was in her late 60's, I'd say - and they married and lived the rest of their lives together (she died not long ago at 95).   As Tony Martin once said, "there are no rules here!"

[MoraWintersoul]

As Tony Martin once said, "there are no rules here!"

I love you man  cram, listen to this one, he's pretty wise.

[cramx3]

Thanks, and yea, I totally get that.  I appreciate it DTF, and talk about playing games, I've been getting a lot of gaming in with DTF's Chino actually lately which has been fun. 

Also, Stads, it's funny how you say just talk to anyone.  I totally get and understand that.  Last weekend after the dump I went to the Devin Townsend concert with that attitude, just meet people and feel confident.  I ended up hanging out with 4 people the entire night, including a really cute girl although I had no interest, but to the point, it felt good to connect with others and just be "normal" in a way. 

Hoping to have a fun night out in Worceseter tonight for Avantasia 

[Chino]

Thanks, and yea, I totally get that.  I appreciate it DTF, and talk about playing games, I've been getting a lot of gaming in with DTF's Chino actually lately which has been fun. 

I didn't want to crash your thread contribution last week, but the reason I've been gaming so much lately is because I officially called my relationship off last week   

It sucks, and I'm sad, but there's an almost guilty level of relief I feel having it be over.

[cramx3]

Well your situation is a bit different, but maybe not that different, I think you said you guys still had some sort of relationship?  I think I'd struggle with that and eventually it would sour for me too.

As for my now ex, she texted me two nights ago.  She's been on vacation in Croatia with her friend and sent me pictures from the Game of Thrones set wiht some text like "I know you probably want to tell me to fuck off but I thought you'd really appreciate these since i know you love Game of Thrones" and won't lie when I say it made me really mad.  I just responded with a simple "that's cool".  I don't know what else to say, kind of wanted to say the "fuck off" because I don't understand the point of reaching out to me.  If she wants to work on things, that can be done but she needs to say it, anything else I don't want to hear at this point.  I don't care how her trip was or what pictures she wants to share.  I want to move on and I thought I did the best job I could do on that front last weekend.  I did two trips for concerts, spent one evening with my friends, and one afternoon with my nieces while working out every day.  I need to focus on that, not her game of thrones pictures which by the fucking way, we would have finished watching the series together if you didn't break up with me!  I watched the last two episodes upset and alone, I feel like that was so fucking rude to send. 

And sadly, this is kind of what I feared.  That I would start to have such strong negative feelings towards her that if she were to want to try to work on things (she didn't say anything of that sort, but reaching out in general made me feel like that's possible) that I would struggle accepting it because of my anger.  We aren't there, and I don't know if that's where this is going but I really don't want to be so angry and upset with her anymore and I don't know what makes it harder, her potentially coming back or me continuing to move on.

[Stadler]

Not to tell you what to do, and I feel like you'd make a good decision anyway based on all you've written here, but my advice is to NOT engage in anger.  Just walk away, even if it is just for a day or two or however many you need to come at this with a clear head.   I don't know that woman, never met her, but that's Mars/Venus shit right there.   If she feels "bad" about breaking things off, fair enough, but to assuage her feelings by texting you?  Fuck that.  If she's being cute by "sending a message that I'm thinking about him", fair enough, but say it and be done with it.   Don't play games. 

[Phoenix87x]

Well your situation is a bit different, but maybe not that different, I think you said you guys still had some sort of relationship?  I think I'd struggle with that and eventually it would sour for me too.

As for my now ex, she texted me two nights ago.  She's been on vacation in Croatia with her friend and sent me pictures from the Game of Thrones set wiht some text like "I know you probably want to tell me to fuck off but I thought you'd really appreciate these since i know you love Game of Thrones" and won't lie when I say it made me really mad.  I just responded with a simple "that's cool".  I don't know what else to say, kind of wanted to say the "fuck off" because I don't understand the point of reaching out to me.  If she wants to work on things, that can be done but she needs to say it, anything else I don't want to hear at this point.  I don't care how her trip was or what pictures she wants to share.  I want to move on and I thought I did the best job I could do on that front last weekend.  I did two trips for concerts, spent one evening with my friends, and one afternoon with my nieces while working out every day.  I need to focus on that, not her game of thrones pictures which by the fucking way, we would have finished watching the series together if you didn't break up with me!  I watched the last two episodes upset and alone, I feel like that was so fucking rude to send. 

And sadly, this is kind of what I feared.  That I would start to have such strong negative feelings towards her that if she were to want to try to work on things (she didn't say anything of that sort, but reaching out in general made me feel like that's possible) that I would struggle accepting it because of my anger.  We aren't there, and I don't know if that's where this is going but I really don't want to be so angry and upset with her anymore and I don't know what makes it harder, her potentially coming back or me continuing to move on.

That's pretty lame that she would do that. I probably would have just not responded, but it still sucks none the less.

When me and my last Ex broke up, I strait up said "I do not want to be friends". We are either in a relationship or not. I refuse to be in some weird, awkward purgatory.

[cramx3]

Yea, that's what I said too.  I even told her I had to block her from social media for my own sanity, not that I hate her but I need my own space and not to see her or to prevent myself from going over to her facebook or something.  Well, for all I know she just legit wanted to show me and nothing more but even then, I feel like it's just messing with my head which is not cool at all.

[cramx3]

Sooo

Last night she texted me.  She apologized for the way we last spoke (not the pictures from croatia that pissed me off, but the break up conversation).  Kind of made me mad.  I can't say I care for an apology for the way we broke up, it happened.  I told her the only thing I want her to apologize for is breaking up with me and to admit it was a mistake.  Well she ended up coming over because this type of conversation through text was just difficult.  I cried, a lot.  I think I let it all out.  She wants to get back and I am just sooooo confused.  It hurts so much to think she could do this to me and then just come back.  I don't know how to feel.  I love her and want to make it work, I've said it all along and was willing to work on my faults.  I don't know why she needed to break up with me and reject me to come to the same conclusion I offered 4 weeks ago.  She had her Euro trip planned beforehand, she was going to get her break from us regardless.  She could have taken more time, I totally was cool with her taking space to clear her head and think about it before officially breaking up, but apparently that wasn't an option then she just had to break my heart.  After letting it all out and totally breaking down, she hugged me and finally expressed the things I wish she said weeks ago.  She wants to try and wants this.  She said her trip was tough because she was upset the entire time, she was telling her friends she wanted to get with me, she said her therapist is "on team marc" and I guess I can only say she was/is going through a lot and some of my actions weren't helping at the time.  Understood.  I just wish it didn't have to be this way because now I'm left with strong negative thoughts and confusion that I can't wrap my head around.  Today has been really tough emotionally for me just thinking about this.  She spent the night and it felt kind of weird.  I told her this morning things seem odd, it doesn't feel right but I do want this, as I always did.  She agreed.  It looks like we will spend time on Sunday together again and see what happens.  I'm just a total wreck right now though.  I want to be really happy and yet I am not.

[Lethean]

It sounds like you've been through a lot in the last couple weeks.  I would agree with Stadler about trying to let the anger go.  I agree with you that she should have brought her frustrations to you so you could work on them together and give it some time, rather than just breaking up.  It would have spared you (and probably her) from some pain.  But sometimes people make mistakes, and something that seems obvious from a distance is totally different in the moment.  You're human, so you can't just turn off feeling angry, but I would do what you can to work through and let it go.
 Obviously, if this becomes a pattern then all bets are off, but for now, she seems to want to work through and you still have feelings for her, and I don't think you have much to lose by giving it a try. 

[cramx3]

Yea, I agree, it's just difficult and my work life isn't making it any easier (at work still at almost 12:30am) but we texted a bit earlier and we both expressed our desire to try even though we both admit it's emotionally taxing right now.  Just take it one day at a time.

[MoraWintersoul]

you: creating a large, resentment generating event within the context of our relationship will generally end up generating resentment
your gf: surprised Pikachu

Memes aside (sorry if that was in poor taste, just trying to make you laugh!), letting anger and resentment go will go a long way for your mental health whether you two end up patching things up or not. Have you ever done a stupid thing you wished you could take back? Focus on that feeling of regret, and then imagine how she is feeling. You wouldn't be the first to break up permanently after an event like this, and you wouldn't be the first who went on as if nothing happened after an event like this either. Whatever you end up doing, it's good for your mental health to stop ruminating and forgive.

For what it's worth, you did say that a desired timeline for you was her returning from the vacation and contacting you at once. She did contact you playing coy on the vacation, and when she realized that was a crappy thing to do, she came with an apology. That's nice. It's also nice you didn't rush into things and say "yes baby, I love you so much that my image of you is uncompromised in every way", because that would create pretext for more bad behavior from her part. From now on, you should take this reset as seriously as possible and live your best life in every way and see if she can keep up, see if she likes the way your life will look or if she is going through the motions because she's scared of losing you.

[Phoenix87x]

I've never had anyone break up with me and then want to get back together. That would seriously screw with my head. Luckily, with the girls who broke up with me in the past, it ended right there.

The last girl I was with though, I was the one that broke up with her but then went through a vicious cycle of getting back together and breaking up, over and over and over. That was truly the worst couple months of my life, until finally she wouldn't get back with me which was for the best honestly. That cycle severely screws with the healing process and being able to move on. Its like getting a wound and the scab keeps getting ripped off before it can heal and it just bleeds and bleeds endlessly.

I don't think I would be able to get back with her if I was in your shoes Cram. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, and I learned that lesson the hard way. But If you do get back with her, I hope she is sincere in her request and actually wants to work toward as stronger relationship.

[Stadler]

Well, I certainly agree that "past behavior is indicative of future behavior", but you have to be critical in that analysis.

While I am nominally "Team Marc", I think it's broader than that.  As for "past behavior", I see a woman that has some conflicts, and maybe had trouble with her perspective.   I think you have to honor that.   We're humans, we're not perfect, and while I would hope in the future she would be more receptive to "talking" before "action", not everyone is like that.   

I think you're right to be angry and resentful, but here's the dilemma:  if you react with anger and resentment, you may not get another crack at the apple.   Might be easier said than done, but I think you're probably best served by tabling the emotions and hearing her out.  Maybe it's me, but I don't expect my relationships to be free of conflict.  It's more important HOW we fight, and whether we can get issues out on the table.   (Then again, to be fair, I'm not a "grudge carrying" kind of guy for the most part.)

You're entitled to your emotions, and don't apologize for that.  But you are responsible for not letting your emotions overwhelm.  If it was me, I wouldn't deny my anger but I would consciously put it aside in my discussions with her, until I'm sure where I want to go with the relationship.   

Hey, not to be a "lawyer" here, but as you learn more from her, you might be able to turn this into a positive.  She's clearly bothered by SOMETHING (I think the "you don't spend time with my friends" is a cover for something deeper; I'm not saying fatal, but it's kind of a bumpersticker-ish way of addressing something more fundamental) and perhaps you can use this time to come out stronger than you were before!

[The Walrus]

Ah, dude, I didn't know it was going so rough for you. My condolences. Breakups can be the worst.

I didn't handle my last one very well, in fact it took years to get over her (and of course I would run into her last month at the Avantasia show all those years later, go figure). Letting go of the anger is absolutely key, I was unable to do that, it was a particularly nasty falling out. Hopefully you can do that. 150% agree with Stadler on everything he wrote.

Although if it were me I'd just tell her to go away, leave me alone, and move on.

[cramx3]

Yea, I think the anger will go away with some time.  I haven't taken any of my anger out on her though just to be clear, it's just clouding my head.  She knows how I feel and she's being very understanding. 

As for the breaking up stuff and pattern of behavior.  This is what worries me the most about getting back together.  My past relationship got into a cycle of breaking up and it was the worse thing ever and I felt trapped.  That time I was the one wanting out and my x kept convincing me to stay and I am very very worried that roles have reversed here and if that's the case than I really need to be the one to let her go.  However, the difference is she came back on her own without me convincing her.  I was pretty flat out with her the other night saying if we got back together she better be 100% serious about leaving because if this falls into a cycle of that behavior I can't be in it.  She's well aware of my past relationship issues, I had always been honest about things because I want to prevent my own mistakes from happening again.

Anyway, I appreciate the support, this is going to be ongoing for a bit.  We will hang out Sunday and I'll get a better feel for things then.

[Lonk]

I think you're right to be angry and resentful, but here's the dilemma:  if you react with anger and resentment, you may not get another crack at the apple.   Might be easier said than done, but I think you're probably best served by tabling the emotions and hearing her out.  Maybe it's me, but I don't expect my relationships to be free of conflict.  It's more important HOW we fight, and whether we can get issues out on the table.   (Then again, to be fair, I'm not a "grudge carrying" kind of guy for the most part.)

I think that's the best advice you can give anyone about relationships. When I first started dating my partner, I was still naive to think we could go on forever without arguing (And I am pretty good at avoiding those). almost 9 years later I can count with one hand the times we had serious disagreements/arguments. There has been a couple of minor ones, and some things that bothered me but I just pushed them aside.

You guys can make it work, it's just a matter of  putting pride aside and letting things just happen naturally without holding grudge and resentment.

[Grappler]

Hey, not to be a "lawyer" here, but as you learn more from her, you might be able to turn this into a positive.  She's clearly bothered by SOMETHING (I think the "you don't spend time with my friends" is a cover for something deeper; I'm not saying fatal, but it's kind of a bumpersticker-ish way of addressing something more fundamental) and perhaps you can use this time to come out stronger than you were before!

Cram - as you talk with her about things, I think this is pretty important.  In your original post, you mentioned how you were feeling burnt out and didn't want to hang with her family or friends (I think).  Yet, I'm assuming that you still did things for yourself, like go to concerts often.  Yes, you already had the tickets and love it, but the appearance is that she and her friends and family aren't as important to you as other things in life.

I can't speak for you and her, but I can certainly say that my wife would be really pissed off if I blew off her family things because I was feeling tired and burnt out on life, but still chose to go out and do things that I enjoyed for myself during that same period.  I've had to cut back on fun things for myself for the sake of my family for now - being at home with my wife and kids is more important than seeing concerts.  It sucks and I've missed some awesome shows, but I'm doing what I need to do for them. 

Not sure if that is playing a part in things or not, but I thought I'd mention it.  Good luck and hang in there! 

[cramx3]

Yea, honestly we never fought or had issues for a long time and I think now that we have some issues we need a better way of "fighting" or essentially communicating our issues.  I think we both have areas there to work on and we spoke about it.  It seems I disregarded some things she had brought up in the past but when she tells me this, I don't even remember them happening because they were just so minor and at those times she didn't really make it known to me that it was very important.  So I've been saying hey if I am upsetting you, don't just makea  quick comment that I'm not going to put emphasis on, make it known to me how my actions hurt you and make it important so I am aware.  And for me, I need to recognize my own actions and make the necessary changes when I am approached about them and not just shrug them off as I have before. 

But yea, I agree about Stadlers bolded part too 100%

and Grappler just saw your post as I typed that and should say you hit the nail on the head a bit.  She brought up that exact point about how even though I am burnt out I did take time to do things that I wanted to do.  And its true my own selfishness has hurt this and something I need to work on.  I guess my excuse was that concerts were the only thing that helped with trying to get out of being burnt out (and we even went to one together that I thought was a great time, but she told me just the other night how she felt so upset after that night and I had no idea until just now), but the appearance of doing this was harmful, I agree.

[Lethean]

As a person who loves going to concerts - I really don't think there's anything wrong with doing exactly that, especially if it makes you happy and more able to deal with what's going on in life. And I don't think doing something that you love to do makes you a selfish person.  When there are kids involved, then it's another story and there's another level to look at. But if it's just the two of you, I think you should be able to say that this is a big part of your life (assuming that's true). It's something that you do and will continue to do.

And you hope she'll be able to enjoy it with you sometimes, but if not did she'll see how much you enjoy it, and not begrudge you for doing it. Just like if there's something that she's into and you're not, you'd either join in sometimes, or let her do it on her own and be glad she's having fun.  So I think that's probably part of the conversation that you need to have as this moves forward.

I'm not saying that you should blow off seeing her family every time - I get not wanting to do that and not because it has anything to do with your feelings for her, but because those events can be emotionally tiring.  But if it's something that's really important to her, I would say try to find a compromise. If it's only once in awhile, just do it. If it's every weekend, I would say you should be able to participate in some and skip some.  I had a co-worker who had 16 siblings, and had family events every week and every weekend. Her husband got really tired of being expected to go to every one, and at first she was pissed about that, but then she kind of realized that it's a lot for one person who's not an actual family member. Of course he cares about her family, but there has to be time to do nothing, to just be alone, and there has to be time to do things that you like to do.

I think there's, or should be, a compromise you can reach. And maybe part of that is communicating as early as possible that you're going to a certain concert. So if DT announces fall tour dates, and you think you want to see two or three, tell her about them immediately. Then it'll be something you already have planned, and the two of you can plan to do things together or with her family on other days.

[cramx3]

It's odd because she has always been understanding about going to concerts and she's always been cool with it, it had seemed this kind of just came out that she was really upset after going to the last one with me.  However, it's not like I am denying her family or anything in favor of concerts.  I think I said I didn't want to go like once in the last year and maybe denied doing things with her friends once or twice, but according to her, it was just those few denials that made her not want to even invite me anymore so over the last six months, I hardly even denied her mostly because she was never asking out of fear of denial.  These are things she needs to speak to me more about because I don't know this until she tells me.  I think the concerts come into play because I schedule those out and therefore if I am going to one she is aware of but say her friend decides to have a party the week of the concert, she ends up not inviting me because she knows I have plans.  It's kind of complicated too in a way in that my own problem is I like things planned, I'm not very spontaneous.  So I have concerts planned for months, but the stuff she plans is always last second such as the time I said I didn't want to go to her parents for dinner since she invited me 15 minutes before the meal on a Sunday when I was in pajamas and ready to be in for the night. 

[Lethean]

I likely would have passed on the 15 minutes notice too.

Sounds like there are some communication issues on her end.  For her part, I would tell her to never stop inviting you - just because you can't make it a couple times doesn't mean you won't the next time.  On your side, if you have to pass on something like dinner with her family, maybe right then and there suggest doing it sometime soon.

I wish you the best of luck with this and hope things go well and you can work it out.  If it doesn't though - at least you're trying and later won't have to wonder if you should have.

[cramx3]

Yea I really appreciate the help here and another positive is in the end of this, whether it works or not, I'm going to come out stronger solo or our relationship will be stronger.  Just got to keep enduring.  We texted a bit today which kind of feels both odd and nice, like there's a huge part of me that wants to go back to just our regular daily texting conversations but I'm also playing it cautiously, I don't want to fall back into any patterns specifically ones that were negative (I don't think this is an example of it).

Actually in a positive note in this, when she came over the other night, the first thing she said was that I looked thinner    First person to notice my work on weight loss.  But I got to admit, at least part of that was just not having an appetite from depression and not from hard work (although I have been working out and eating sooo much better). 

[The Walrus]

Keep up the good habits, dude. That's awesome!

I once dated a girl who got mad when we had to miss a band, and she was pissed off royally when we arrived too late to a Blind Guardian show to get up front. Go getcherself one of those.   

[cramx3]

No thanks  I like concerts from the back these days

Personally, I think the concerts thing was a bit exaggerated in the heat of this situation we are in, as she's said so many times that it's really not an issue and she thinks it's a positive that I have a hobby I am so invested in.  I agree too, it's one of the few things I do socially anymore.  The reality though is that I wish she went to every concert with me, we just typically have so much fun together especially at concerts (such as getting pulled over in our Uber on the way to a 311 halloween show as we are dressed up as ketchup and mustard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4PqX5NTXp0 if you don't believe me)) and that even includes concerts I went to for her interests like Imagine Dragons, I didn't expect to have that much fun at that show but it's really because we went together. 

Her Christmas gift from me this year were tickets to see Ariana Grande at MSG.  In the break up I gave the tickets to her so I don't expect to be going to that one anymore, which is mostly fine, but while I think that concert may be terrible from music perspective, I did think it could be super fun just to do together.

[The Walrus]

I love that you recorded video of that. Awesome. 

[Stadler]

If it makes you feel better, the "family thing" is one of the few things my wife and I disagree on.  I go to all her family stuff, without asking, because that's what you do as a husband.  At least I feel that way.  Suffice to say, she doesn't always feel that way.   But we reached a middle ground, and we talk.  "This is important to me", or "hey, you can sit this one out". Not perfect, but it is what it is.   

As for concerts, I prefer going by myself, so that's not an issue.  There are shows we go to together, but she's not interested in Sons Of Apollo or Uli Jon Roth, so I go and make friends. 

[Phoenix87x]

Never went to concerts with the first few Girlfriends. Only ever went with my ex fiance. Both of which ended up in fights on the way home. But then again toward end, pretty much everyday was a fight so yeah 

I honestly just prefer going alone or with friends. It just seems to go smoother.

[ReaperKK]

My gf loves going to concerts and I'm a fan of 80% of what she listens to so it's a nice thing to enjoy.

However, she is not a fan of what I listen to so I go to concerts solo. It's for the best really, I know she'd go if I asked her to and she has volunteered but I don't think she is going to enjoy it and I'm not going to enjoy myself either then.

[Stadler]

There's a practical reason too; I got to go up on stage with Gene Simmons, I got to meet Billy Squier, I got to hang and shoot the breeze with Gary Barden...  all because I only had myself to worry about.  I worry too much whether the other person is having a good time or not, and it's stressful.   

[Phoenix87x]

There's a practical reason too; I got to go up on stage with Gene Simmons, I got to meet Billy Squier, I got to hang and shoot the breeze with Gary Barden...  all because I only had myself to worry about.  I worry too much whether the other person is having a good time or not, and it's stressful.

You nailed exactly how I feel about it too. The whole time with the girlfriend I was worried if someone or something was bothering her. Is she having a good time? It was always on my mind the protector mentality. When its just me or friends, then all of that is gone.

[Lonk]

My partner loves concerts, we are actually seeing Coheed and Mastodon later today, but she hates DT and some of the heavier bands I listen to, so to those concerts I go with friends.

[cramx3]

So the latest on my sad saga...

She came over Sunday evening, I grilled us dinner, we chatted while chilling outside since it was nice for awhile, then watched tv for a few hours, had some sex and called it a night.  Pretty much like most of our nights together and we didn't really talk much about us, just kind of reconnected.  It was really nice, probably too nice actually.

The next day I just felt so empty though.  Like I was teased of what we should have been but she had insisted before the evening we would not be getting back together.  I was really struggling emotionally Monday.  I just had to start talking to her about it, I asked how she felt about the evening and then lead into saying that my head is spun around too much right now that I am struggling finding happiness in this "limbo" as I am referring to where we were now that she wanted to "reconnect".  After telling her all that, I said I want to be together and working on rebuilding the relationship, not just be fuck buddies or whatever the hell this is.  She said the conversation was too much for her and ended it, didn't say I love you or anything either.  So I stopped and didn't reach out to her until she did yesterday afternoon saying she wanted to come over in the evening to talk about what we had talked about the day before but in person.  Makes sense.

I told her how I felt.  For one, I feel a bit used.  Two, I feel like if she can't commit to a relationship then I can't commit to "limbo".  Mentally it's not healthy for me, I really struggled the past couple days just trying to be normal and my emotions are getting the best of me, in every aspect of my life right now.  It's not good.  I was feeling better before she reached out, I was starting to overcome the sadness, and now I'm thrown into some situation that I can't handle.  I need it to end, with or without her.  So she left and that's that.

Honestly, today has been a better day for me.  I feel kind of relieved in a way.  I definitely still want it to work, but I can't accept some situation where I feel like I am 100% in and she is not, especially when I am willing to work on the things I have been bad at, but I can't work on those things without a foundation.  But I think at the end of the day, she doesn't want this and is struggling wtih ending it herself.  Which is part of the reason why I feel used, she's just using me to make the break up easier it seems.  Well, it sucks, and it sucks hard, but I feel a lot better today knowing I did what I needed to do to move on here. 

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if she reached out next week saying she wants to be together and I'm not sure what to do if she does, but I need to go back to living my life like she is not in it anymore because that's what's best for me.

[Stadler]

Dude, I'm proud of you.  I don't know that I could have done that (as you wrote it). 

Good for you for doing what's right for YOU.  I'm a firm believer that if you're not all YOU can be, then your relationship can't be all that IT can be. We bring our baggage into our relationships, not the other way around, and I'm impressed at how you dealt with that.   

And trust me (pun intended):  if you can't trust her with your heart and your emotions and your healing, then you need to protect yourself.   You're only going to be hurt worse in the end. 

[cramx3]

Thanks Bill, you know, she said my problem was my selfishness all along and at the end of last night she did say this was just another selfish move and I don't think she is wrong, but I can't improve my selfishness where I am not in a relationship so I therefore should be looking out for myself.  I wanted to make her feel more like equals than I had been, it was something I told her I wanted to work on, but I couldn't find a way to work on that without being equals in a relationship.  It felt like an unfair and impossible situation.