The official Opeth thread v. In Cauda Venenum

[Sacul]

So on the prog site I'm in we made a collective review on Sorceress, and I contributed a bit, if you're interested 

[Crow]

tell Frog that Slight Return is a Jimi Hendrix reference

i want to at least give some of the songs on the album another spin (probably a few of the non-singles) but atm i'm leaning towards outright ignoring this one, honestly

[Sacul]

The only song I really dig is the self-titled one tbh. Maybe I'd like the album more if it came with character sheets for D&D

[Cyclopssss]

Looks like to me people have a very hard time accepting the 'new' Opeth. It was clear to me with the last album that they are not a 'deathmetal band from Sweden' anymore. Shame in a way because I also love their old sound, but things are what they are.

[Crow]

as someone who only really likes one metal Opeth album:
heritage isn't very interesting and pale communion is only a small step up. the material just isn't especially interesting.

though i am relistening to some sorceress tracks atm (basically seventh sojourn onwards, it ended up being) and there's some solid stuff here at the very least. strange brew and era are both pretty cool. still undecided on this one but i'm considering it more than i was previously, at the very least

[Zantera]

Looks like to me people have a very hard time accepting the 'new' Opeth. It was clear to me with the last album that they are not a 'deathmetal band from Sweden' anymore. Shame in a way because I also love their old sound, but things are what they are.

For me it has nothing to do with their change in sound, I liked Pale Communion quite a bit, more than the majority did. But the songwriting and especially the production just feels so dull. I don't know, but the band is starting to feel uninspiring to the point where Sorceress sounded exactly like I expected it to, and not in a good way. I'd still like to be wowed and surprised and hear new ideas, and Sorceress didn't feel like that. Whether it's a progressive death metal album or a progressive 70s rock album, I still want to be impressed by something.

[Podaar]

I couldn't possibly disagree more. I think the album is full of fantastic ideas. Take "Era" for example.

Once the piano bit at the beginning is over, the rest seems so simple (monotonous?); the guitar just gallops along, keeping rhythm, leaning on the one note (or nearly) through two lengthy verses. The vocal melody isn't very dynamic either. But then you start to realize that the drums are where real musicality of the piece is. Axe is just killing it and I notice some new facet of his playing every time I hear the song. Where are the keys? Oh, there they are, subtly providing an expansion of the vocal melody. Then when the chorus kicks in, (even though the song is still going at the same pace) the tension release from the verses is brilliant. We get a soaring lead break with, once again, the drums providing the bulk of the background musicality to the guitar. Just gorgeous. The chorus comes back but doesn't over stay its welcome.

I understand that people, especially those who miss the ol' Opeth, might not like Sorceress. Calling this album "poor songwriting" and/or "uninspired" seems so off base to me that it's not even wrong.

[Cyclopssss]

I agree. The guy who plays the keyboards and piano's and a list of other instruments, is one of the mvp's on this album. There's a lot of subtle play on here. 

[Zantera]

The production is the main problem for me. I think the songwriting has its moments (Sorceress and Era in particular) and while it's not quite up there with Pale Communion, I would say it's better than Heritage. But it's so baffling to me that a band who have been active for over 20 years can put out an album that sounds so muddy when at this point they've established themselves and have creative freedom. This isn't a bad sounding debut album that ended up sounding bad because it was a debut album by a band unknown at the time, this is the 12th album by a band that is pretty well known in their genre, yet it's their worst sounding album by a margin and it was designed to sound that way.

There's a lot of people around the internet who have been playing around in ProTools and similar to create a version of Sorceress that is easier to listen to, and I think that says everything. It shouldn't be a "Do it Yourself"-experience where you make it listenable yourself. I'd be just as frustrated if Sorceress was progressive death metal with growls and sounded this mediocre.

[Ben_Jamin]

I haven't bought it yet. Been listening on YouTube though and spotify. I'm enjoying this a lot, I enjoyed Heritage. Pale communion not as much.

[ChuckSteak]

It is an ok album. Nothing fantastic.

[KevShmev]

I understand that people, especially those who miss the ol' Opeth, might not like Sorceress. Calling this album "poor songwriting" and/or "uninspired" seems so off base to me that it's not even wrong.

Agreed, but it's clear that some fans go out of their way to not like the new stuff.  Oh well, what can you do?

[faizoff]

I can never tell what exactly is meant by poor songwriting or uninspired. I mean what's the metric, how do you listen to a track and say well this was uninspired. Maybe since I'm not a musician, I always listen to music and just think if I like it or not.

[goo-goo]

I don't think Sorceress is uninspired at all. I don't think Mikael is a musician that would just write for just releasing something. Didn't he say he scrapped all the first music written for Heritage?

My gripe with this album is the production, specially on the bass. Sometimes it just cuts through the other instruments pretty bad. I do like however, Mikael's singing on this one. He's a very underrated singer imo.

[ChuckSteak]

I don't think Sorceress is uninspired at all. I don't think Mikael is a musician that would just write for just releasing something. Didn't he say he scrapped all the first music written for Heritage?

He said he can only write when the label puts pressure and there is a deadline to deliver the album. He also said that the worst albums to write were Deliverance and Damnation because they went into the studio without having written anything. I wish he would do that every time.

[Cyclopssss]

^^ Well that and the fact that the recorded material wouldn't sync up in the new studio they went into to mix and master them.... to the point of almost driving poor Michael to tears. It's all explained in the little documentary about those albums which can be found on 'Lamentations'. (which is, in its own right, excellent, btw).

[twosuitsluke]

I can never tell what exactly is meant by poor songwriting or uninspired. I mean what's the metric, how do you listen to a track and say well this was uninspired. Maybe since I'm not a musician, I always listen to music and just think if I like it or not.

Yea, I've got to admit that I'm kinda with you on that.

[BlackInk]

It's just another way of saying "boring".

[Zantera]

Uninspired to me is a band doing something they have done before but with an underwhelming result. Inspired songwriting, the contrary is when I go "wow they really pushed themselves here", or "they really went outside of their comfort zone and made something fresh".

[kaos2900]

I can never tell what exactly is meant by poor songwriting or uninspired. I mean what's the metric, how do you listen to a track and say well this was uninspired. Maybe since I'm not a musician, I always listen to music and just think if I like it or not.

This. I think there could be basis to call out bad songwriting through music theory but saying something is uninspired is 100% subjective and there is no way to prove it unless the musician says they were not inspired.

[Podaar]

It's just another way of saying "boring".

Uninspired to me is a band doing something they have done before but with an underwhelming result. Inspired songwriting, the contrary is when I go "wow they really pushed themselves here", or "they really went outside of their comfort zone and made something fresh".

Then I suggest you folks just say what you mean. If you're bored, say you're find it boring. If you had unrealistic expectations, say you were expecting something else. Like kaos2900 said, if you know something about music theory and can explain how a composition is crafted wrong, let us know. I personally would be interested in the information.

By calling other people's creation "uninspired" or "poorly crafted" you are projecting your subjective feelings onto them. I maybe wrong, but it appears to be an attempt to transfer responsibility for your own feelings. Not necessarily you, BlackInk or Zantera, but we've all seen posters who act like bands make music they don't like to deliberatly piss them off. It doesn't add to the conversation, really. And before someone jumps on me about 'opinions', and their relative frequency to the appearance of rectums, I get it. We all have them. I enjoy a lovely debate and bout how cool or boring something is, bring it on, but the passive aggressive "they're shit now" (again, not directed at BlackInk or Zantera specifically) seems to be a conversation stopper.

Okay, the ol' guy is babbling again.

Carry on.

[Zantera]

Haha it's fine! I may come off as harsh on Sorceress but I'd still give it a 7/10 or so. Sure, I was hoping for a little bit more of evolution than we got, but I can't really blame Opeth for making the kind of music they want. I feel like with their older albums there was more of an evolution there. Orchid, Morningrise and then My Arms Your Hearse - you have a nice build-up to the first (IMO) masterpiece album they made. I was thinking Sorceress would be similar, that they would shoot higher than they did with PC and make an even more impressive album in that style, but unfortunately for me it was a bit of a step down again.

But oh well, maybe hearing some of the songs live would change my perspective on hearing the album again.

[goo-goo]

Seeing them tonight in Austin 

[Big Hath]

tomorrow night in Dallas for me 

[fadetoblackdude7]

Enjoy, guys. Awesome show!

[KevShmev]

  I do like however, Mikael's singing on this one. He's a very underrated singer imo.

I think his singing is similar to his guitar playing, in that he is nothing special in either regard, but he puts enough personality into them that both have a unique charm that makes them very appealing.

[KevShmev]

Even though I always agree that Blackwater Park is one of the best three albums, I realized recently that I never listen to half of the songs from it.  Bleak and The Drapery Falls are two of my favorite Opeth songs, Harvest is also pretty great, and I love the laid back nature of the instrumental Patterns in the Ivy, but I almost never listen to the other four songs.  I admittedly have a hard time with just about any Opeth song that is all growls, which is why I rarely listen to the title track (which is a shame since it is chock full of awesome riffage and lead playing).  I love the mellow outros in both The Leper Affinity and Dirge for November, but neither has much else that makes me want to listen on any kind of regular basis.  The Funeral Portrait is probably the one I listen to the most of the four, but then we are back to that "all growls" thing.    Don't get me wrong, I like all of those songs, and I can easily turn the album on and listen to it from start to finish, but what I mean is, when doing random listening of Opeth songs, I will never go for any of those four.

[Zantera]

I never considered BWP one of the absolute best because I think both The Funeral Portrait and Dirge for November are two pretty dull songs by Opeth-standards and I would rank them both fairly low in the discography. So that's 15-20 minutes of "meh" right there, even though I love The Leper Affinity, The Drapery Falls, Bleak, Harvest and the title track.

As far as bang for the buck, I'd say Deliverance might be my favorite because 4 of the 5 "proper" songs are all in my top20 Opeth songs and I also have no problem with By the Pain I See in Others, which is a sell for some people. Deliverance, My Arms Your Hearse, Still Life and Ghost Reveries are all more consistent than BWP IMO.

[KevShmev]

I have never been able to get into Wreath; that's a song I literally never listen to.

To me, Still Life and Ghost Reveries are the two best, because both are amazingly consistent and have very high highs (I'd probably put four songs from both in my Opeth top 20). 

[fadetoblackdude7]

I love Dirge For November. The intro/outro are both so relaxing to listen to

[Mladen]

The outro in Dirge for November is perfection and pure bliss. I can play it over and over again and just get lost in the beauty of it.

[Big Hath]

the show last night was excellent.  Åkesson's solos are so well done, especially the Wilde Flowers solo.  Great set list!

Ghost of Perdition, Cusp of Eternity, Hex Omega and Deliverance were standouts, and the new songs came across well live.

[fadetoblackdude7]

The Devil's Orchard and Cusp Of Eternity were way better live IMO.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm really enjoying the new album. It might even spark an Opeth renaissance for me, as I haven't listened to them much these past few years.

[Scar]

This is a pretty old list, around 6 months ago. Do you guys agree?

www.loudwire.com/opeth-albums-ranked/

11. Heritage
10. Morningrise
9. Pale Communion
8. Watershed
7. Orchid
6. Damnation
5. My Arms Your Hearse
4. Deliverance
3. Still Life
2. Ghost Reveries
1. Blackwater Park

Morningrise is way to low and My Arms is way to high. Damnation and Orchid should be higher also.