The official Opeth thread v. In Cauda Venenum

[Xanthul]

I just got the CD + Blu Ray version, listening to it for the first time... in the meanwhile, I found out that there is some error with the 5.1 mix in the Blu Ray, don't know if it was mentioned yet:

https://www.theopethforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=394&sid=43e942bff4ee411b9a8c6b7d71a93d1a

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/opeth-new-album-pale-communion.328213/page-14

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?19199-Opeth-Pale-Communion-5-1-(Blu-ray)&p=221726&viewfull=1#post221726

I will check if my version also has this problem (I can't see why not) but it really sucks to have to mail them the discs and have them replaced or whatever other bothersome method they set up to correct this. Roadrunner has really screwed up this release.

[?]

Pale Communion tops the Finnish charts: https://www.ifpi.fi/tilastot/virallinen-lista/albumit/2014/35

Still Life and Blackwater Park are in your bottom 3?

I mean, I am all for different tastes and stuff, but there's got to be some sort of law against THAT.

I've probably said this a million times before, but IMO the second half of BWP drags the album down. Dirge for November bores me, The Funeral Portrait is just alright, and the title-track has some good sections, but doesn't justify its 12-minute length.

As for Still Life, I'm not sure. It's a good album, but for some reason it doesn't appeal to me as much as most Opeth releases. The highlights are great, but not as mindblowing as, say, Ghost of Perdition. Maybe it's because the songs are more tied to the concept than on GR or MAYH.

[Zantera]

I think the middle/to the end is where BWP drags a bit for me. It's still a very strong album, mostly because of the power of the first 4 tracks and the title track closing the album off, but those other 3 songs in the second half are just kinda "eh". That's why I would only rank BWP their 4th or 5th best. Probably 5th at the moment. While the peaks are incredible, I would say Still Life, Ghost Reveries, Deliverance and My Arms, Your Hearse are more consistent.

[snowdog]

I just got the CD + Blu Ray version, listening to it for the first time... in the meanwhile, I found out that there is some error with the 5.1 mix in the Blu Ray, don't know if it was mentioned yet:

https://www.theopethforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=394&sid=43e942bff4ee411b9a8c6b7d71a93d1a

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/opeth-new-album-pale-communion.328213/page-14

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?19199-Opeth-Pale-Communion-5-1-(Blu-ray)&p=221726&viewfull=1#post221726

I will check if my version also has this problem (I can't see why not) but it really sucks to have to mail them the discs and have them replaced or whatever other bothersome method they set up to correct this. Roadrunner has really screwed up this release.

Thanks for the heads up!  Fortunately I usually just play my 5.1 tracks on my PC so I've got them in FLAC form already.  Just need to apply Invert on channels 1 & 4 and it is fixed.  I tested it on the first track and it is definitely noticeable listening to them back to back.

[Riitasointi]

Haha for me Dirge for November is one of the best tracks on BWP. It's just so... touching. The only song that isn't up to par with the rest is The Funeral Portrait but even that one is really good and doesn't break the album flow at all.

[KevShmev]

Seeing the poll results, it pains me how overlooked/underrated the first two are. I'm gonna listen to both Orchid and Morningrise later in fact, both are amazing albums.

For me, both have their moments, especially that awesome middle section of Under a Weeping Moon, but a lot of both albums is just a blur to me.  I can listen to either and very little of them stand out. For my money, the first two albums and Heritage are easily their lest best albums.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Haha for me Dirge for November is one of the best tracks on BWP. It's just so... touching. The only song that isn't up to par with the rest is The Funeral Portrait but even that one is really good and doesn't break the album flow at all.

Agreed. The intro and outro for Dirge is nothing short of eerie and magical. It's one of the most atmospheric songs on the album. Even The Funeral Portrait is fantastic and that's probably my least favorite track on BWP.

[PixelDream]

I pretty much completely agree with the percentages of the poll, almost mirroring my feelings exactly.

[bout to crash]

Two of my choices seem to be the majority...

Not at all. I understand what you were saying, and I agree.
It's just sometimes I hear a song and its like, "come on dudes, did you have to go there? That's so fucked up." There are other themes to write about that are dark and sinister, and more challenging on an intellectual level that likely wont offend or hurt anybody. Again, just my 2 cents.

I have to disagree here. If someone writes a song about something bad just for shock value that's one thing, but lots of awesome art comes out of really horrible things. And really, since when was the goal to avoid offending people? That's not really art, that's commercial bullshit. They "went there" because they felt inspired to do so, for whatever reason. To censor that just because it might upset someone is not being true to the self and the art. And shit, who knows- what if someone he knew was raped and murdered and it was cathartic to write a song about it? Like Jorge said, these sorts of things happen whether we want to talk about them or not- arguably they happen more if we refuse to talk about them.

Also, chances are any dark and sinister theme is going to offend someone out there. Imagine if Opeth wrote music that walked on those kinds of eggshells. I doubt any of us would be listening to them.

[425]

Warning: I do quote the lyrics from The Leper Affinity in this post.




I tend to agree with bout to crash. I also think that it's not at all clear that The Leper Affinity is about rape. Yeah, some of the words summon that image, and I have no doubt that it's intentional on Mikael's part that they do that (native English speaker or not, anyone who writes "your body is mine to avail... slave under my creed, spurring me with those tears" knows what they're implying), but that doesn't mean that the song is directly describing rape. I think it's entirely possible that that's what it's about—that's a valid reading of the lyrics. But it's not the only valid reading. The words are intentionally vague to a degree.

[jammindude]

Warning: I do quote the lyrics from The Leper Affinity in this post.




I tend to agree with bout to crash. I also think that it's not at all clear that The Leper Affinity is about rape. Yeah, some of the words summon that image, and I have no doubt that it's intentional on Mikael's part that they do that (native English speaker or not, anyone who writes "your body is mine to avail... slave under my creed, spurring me with those tears" knows what they're implying), but that doesn't mean that the song is directly describing rape. I think it's entirely possible that that's what it's about—that's a valid reading of the lyrics. But it's not the only valid reading. The words are intentionally vague to a degree.

In line with this thought...here was someone else's thought from songmeanings dot com...

"The more I read the lyrics, the more I think it is nature itself, talking to somebody who has died and been buried: "We entered Winter once again, naked, freezing from my breath. 'Neath the lid all limbs tucked away, this coffin is your abode from now and onwards. Your body is mine to avail."

This, to me, is nature or the earth itself speaking. The "breath" of the land is the wind, freezing the ground and all below it. The earth now avails, or uses, the body to its own advantage. The soil itself is nurtured by the corpse, and the decomposition causes the body to return to nature - dust to dust, you know? These lines seem to fit that: "Grew together with your skin, and paced the trails of sin. Your gaze covered with virgin snow; rigid features."

All that suggests somebody dead and buried under the cold winter earth. Yeah, I can see it being a metaphor for human failings - it could even be an analogy for a controlling or smothering relationship, in a sick sort of way. But in a literal sense, I believe it's about death and the eternity of burial."

Remember, the most popular interpretation is not always the correct one.   It's just that most people read the lyrics fairly literally.   But literal would be the most obvious....not necessarily the intention. 

[bout to crash]

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. I've never actually sat and tried to analyze the lyrics before, but I think they're beautiful.

[seasonsinthesky]

pretty sure the "body"-focused lyrics are intended to be tied directly to the title of the song. there's otherwise no worth in using the word "leper," as the lyrics don't specifically mention the disease or its effects.

i really like the nature interpretation. that's a bit more in Åkerfeldt's style.

[Buddyhunter1]

That's all fine and dandy, but I'm pretty sure in the documentary for BWP Akerfelt was talking about how dark the lyrics were for the album, and mentioned how they cover topics including rape.

Of course, the beauty of lyrics is that it's all open to interpretation, regardless of the writer's vision.

[black_biff_stadler]

Fun fact: Nirvana's Rape me was actually about rising cable costs.

[rumborak]

I don't know how many have watched the movie, but Voice of Treason totally has a Despicable Me vibe to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jj3LnZDYWI#t=26

[?]

I checked FB right after buying a ticket to the Opeth show in my city, and Alcest had announced that they're supporting Opeth in Europe! I saw a headlining show by Alcest in January already, but they were fantastic and I'm glad they're on the bill. A better fit than N'Flaymz, that's for sure!

[Xanthul]

If I can see Alcest + Opeth I will be a very happy man. There are no dates in Spain so far in Opeth's website though.

[Onno]

I need to wait for my exam schedule. If I don't have an exam on the day Opeth plays in Holland I may just buy VIP tickets!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Opeth cracked the top 20!

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/opeths-pale-communion-cracks-u-s-top-20/

Unfortunately their first week sales did decline about a third from Heritage's. That's probably indicative of an overall trend of declining CD sales as well as people leaving them because of their new direction.

[ZKX-2099]

lol the Waking The Fallen re-release did better.

Blowpeth.

[seasonsinthesky]

That's all fine and dandy, but I'm pretty sure in the documentary for BWP Akerfelt was talking about how dark the lyrics were for the album, and mentioned how they cover topics including rape.

just watched it to verify — he actually just says the lyrics are personal but made "sicker," but doesn't specifically talk about their contents. (maybe one of the other documentaries is the one you're thinking of?)

[Mladen]

Opeth cracked the top 20!

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/opeths-pale-communion-cracks-u-s-top-20/

Unfortunately their first week sales did decline about a third from Heritage's. That's probably indicative of an overall trend of declining CD sales as well as people leaving them because of their new direction.

Does the fact that the album leaked a month and a half prior to the official release date have anything to do with it? Still, to be in top 20 is quite an achievement anyway, so good job, guys. 

[Lolzeez]

So,I've given Pale Communion 13 listens and I still think it's one of their weakest to date. The album sounds tired,the instrumentation is nice but nothing sticks out. Faith In Others is pretty decent though. But with the exception of that one song,the album is surprisingly weak. I prefer Heritage.

[Buddyhunter1]

That's all fine and dandy, but I'm pretty sure in the documentary for BWP Akerfelt was talking about how dark the lyrics were for the album, and mentioned how they cover topics including rape.

just watched it to verify — he actually just says the lyrics are personal but made "sicker," but doesn't specifically talk about their contents. (maybe one of the other documentaries is the one you're thinking of?)

Maybe, I remember him saying it somewhere but maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly.

[425]

That's all fine and dandy, but I'm pretty sure in the documentary for BWP Akerfelt was talking about how dark the lyrics were for the album, and mentioned how they cover topics including rape.

just watched it to verify — he actually just says the lyrics are personal but made "sicker," but doesn't specifically talk about their contents. (maybe one of the other documentaries is the one you're thinking of?)

Yeah, I'm watching it now myself (I had completely forgotten that I even had it until this conversation started). To elaborate, he says that he felt a great deal of hatred towards most people in general and wrote the songs more-or-less about that and then spiced them up by making the lyrics more... violent, I guess?

Another curiosity: He says in the documentary that he can't imagine himself still being up on stage screaming (his word choice) when he's 40. He's 40 now.

[Zantera]

The Needle Drop - Pale Communion review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaIc7rttYEc&list=UUt7fwAhXDy3oNFTAzF2o8Pw

 

[Mladen]

Ouch, I'm scared of watching that. He's a great critic, I love some of his reviews, but as far as I recall, he was extremely harsh on Heritage. Lets go with this and see what he's got...

EDIT: Yeah, just what I expected. Something tells me he didn't even want to review it but he had to because too many people asked him to. He pretty much used the same arguments he used for Wilson's The Raven, which is that they're studying, emulating and copying prog rock of the 70s. It's not a new argument, people have been talking about this for a while, but I've never heard any prog rock that sounds exactly like PC. Just the other day, I was listening to the album and realized how some of the riffs are the typical Opeth, it's just that there isn't a whole lot of distortion on them - never have I listened to a prog rock album with riffs like that.

And how come I don't hear the Dogs melody in Faith in others? Which one is it, did anyone else get it?

[Zantera]

It's the piano melody like 2-3 mins into the song when it goes calm. I didn't hear it before he pointed it out, but now it's quite obvious. I don't mind though, it's like a small little wink, nothing that makes me think of plagiarism.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I'm really not all that surprised.

Now to wait for the whole "progressive vs. progressive rock" debate again.

[PixelDream]

I can relate to his opinion actually. Besides, a 5/6 isn't that bad on his scale. The worst part is that while I consider this to be better than Heritage, it has little replay value to me. Blackwater Park or even MAYH and GR have kept me busy for ages, this one surely won't.

[TioJorge]

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/opeth_we_will_never_sound_like_on_our_old_records.html

Beautiful read. I absolutely love the comment about people deciding on what is Opeth and what is not despite being a faceless fan, so to speak. I feel bad for the guys sometimes because I think if people had the slightest amount of maturity and intellect when discussing things they don't like or even outright hate, it'd come off a lot better instead of sounding like a 15 year-old with their period. I think most people are much more inclined to listen to and respect the opinion of someone who doesn't sound like they've flown off the handle and are raging the whole time. That's asking far too much though...people take shit personally. It's equally interesting as it is sad and annoying. Also, for the sensitive pantywaists, I'm not referring to anyone here so don't get your thongs in a wad. A few of my sisters gothic little friends were just utterly ranting and raving about the new record and god almighty...if you wanna see someone's true amount of maturity, all you've gotta do is listen to what they say when they're angry. It's nuts how immature people can get when they feel like they didn't get what they want. It's that whole mentality that a band's music is somehow related to the fans. (Unless we're talking concert-plays, which Akerfeldt mentions and has been mentioned here)

Anyway, it's a great read for anyone, even if you hate the new direction. Oh god those Youtube reviewers...they are by far and away some of the douchiest, entitled little shits on the planet.  I swear... They think they're Ebert and Roeper here. At least baldy there, and there's one other guy who always sounds like he just snorted about a pound of cocaine and is screaming and yelling throughout... I've seen about a minute of a review for each of them and that was all I needed. Then again I've not once actually listened/read and cared about a music review. Music is completely different to me than any other media, it's one that I'd actually rather not hear any reviews for whatever album/band. Not only is my own opinion almost always a far cry away from the masses, but it'd probably skew at least a little bit of what I thought about the music when in reality it's all so introspective and completely based on personal connection that it seems useless to me. Eh! Chalk it up to these guys giving way too much of a shit and me not enough. 

Pee Es: I just got those feels you get when recruiting a new Opeth zealot. I just showed a friend of mine My Arms, Your Hearse (who I haven't seen for years and who was once a jazz aficionado only to turn into a metalhead with jazz influences  ) and he's already out 'n about getting the rest of their discography. I told him to be prepared for the massive change up but I have a feeling he'll love it given his background. It's just an awesome feeling, and it makes me remember when I was first getting into them and how excited I was to find something new. Which is a huge reason why I have no problem with Opeth throwing curve balls at us; even if I end up not liking it as much, it's still very interesting to see where they go and how they surprise us next. 

[seasonsinthesky]

I just got those feels you get when recruiting a new Opeth zealot. I just showed a friend of mine My Arms, Your Hearse (who I haven't seen for years and who was once a jazz aficionado only to turn into a metalhead with jazz influences  ) and he's already out 'n about getting the rest of their discography.

wow, i'm utterly surprised MAYH sold someone new on the band, especially a metaljazzer. good for you/him/MAYH but that seems extremely uncommon now that BWP and GR seem to be considered the god-tier.

[TioJorge]

  I really didn't put any thought into it, and I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter all that much where you start with a band. But I'm guessing BWP will be his favorite. Either that or Pale Communion. He had actually heard Voice of Treason and asked who the band was and asked to hear more if I had it and I told him I'd blow his mindhole by showing some past material and sure enough he didn't believe for a while that it was the same band (we were in the car so I had to do my best to let him know I wasn't bullshitting instead of just showing him  which is tough coming from me).

[ChuckSteak]

"As reported, the latest Opeth album, "Pale Communion," was dubbed by Akerfeldt as far more melodic than the rest of the group's opus. Focusing on vocal harmonies, the musician noted....."

Far more melodic? I don't think so. Any other Opeth album has "far more melodies" in my opinion. And if Opeth will never sound like the old days (I don't mean doing the same album over and over again) then the band's dead to me. It is very sad to see how proud they are of the new album and the new direction they chose to follow. No offense to those who like it, but if Opeth keeps like that, it is over for me.

They were such an original band. I have never heard any band playing like they did in the past and they choose to throw it all away and start copying prog rock / hard rock / psychedelic rock from the 70s.

Akerfeldt says they will still play the heavy songs, but if he doesnt improve his growls, what's the point? He can't growl well anymore..