The Led Zeppelin Discography Discussion: v. Everything still turns to gold

[sneakyblueberry]

IV is good value.  I would put Evermore at the top of my list as well, absolutely love that.  I also actually kinda dig the version on Page and Plant Unledded.

[King Postwhore]

I played this album so much that I stopped listening to it for decades.  Finally went back to it and love it but sometimes you've got to put a great album like this away to feel fresh again.  It's fresh again to me now.

[TAC]

I played this album so much that I stopped listening to it for decades.  Finally went back to it and love it but sometimes you've got to put a great album like this away to feel fresh again.  It's fresh again to me now.

I know how you feel. I busted it out a few weeks ago and it was very enjoyable.

[King Postwhore]

It's just not Led Zep but this was such an iconic album and as a 12 year old through my teems I played way too much of it.



Funny story now.  My cousin and I as 12 and 13 year old thought we'd write our own songs and record them on cassette.  Well of course my cousin wanted me to wail like Plant so imagine a 12 year old, not yet hitting puberty, singing like plant.



I cringe every time I hear it.

[jingle.boy]

I played this album so much that I stopped listening to it for decades.  Finally went back to it and love it but sometimes you've got to put a great album like this away to feel fresh again.  It's fresh again to me now.

I know how you feel. I busted it out a few weeks ago and it was very enjoyable.

Word.  It had been a couple years since I last spun it.  So incredible.  #3 all time album for me.

[jammindude]

Are we ranking yet?   Seems almost a shame since part of me wants to say...

1. Black Dog/Rock and Roll/The Battle of Evermore/Stairway to Heaven/Misty Mountain Hop/Going to California/When the Levee Breaks
2. Four Sticks

But that's kindof a cop out.   So, I'll force myself to do better.

1. Misty Mountain Hop
2. Black Dog
3. The Battle of Evermore
4. Rock and Roll
5. When the Levee Breaks
6. Stairway to Heaven
7. Going to California
8. Four Sticks

BTW...Ann Wilson singing any of these songs (to me) is easily on par with the originals.   (In fact, while the backing band may not be as good, the voice might be even BETTER than Plant...and I *love* Plant.  But Ann Wilson has the greatest voice of anyone, anywhere, any time, in any genre.   That woman could sing the freakin phone book and my heart would melt)

[LudwigVan]

Proving they were truly an "album" act, the single released for Black Dog would ultimately be the second worst selling single the band ever had. Fans didn't want singles, they wanted the whole damn album; the whole damn experience.

This is one of the things I love about the Led Zeppelin experience. I tend to view a Zep album as one contiguous work or 'opus', rather than just a collection of songs. As corny as it might sound, I approach Zep's 8 studio albums the exact same way I do the 9 symphonies of Beethoven. I think that's why it's so difficult for me to rank the songs on each album. Everyone knows the 1st movement from Beethoven's Fifth, but you are cheating yourself as a listener and music lover if you ignore the other 3 movements. I can assure you that Beethoven wrote his symphonies to be heard in their entirety, rather than just having an orchestra pick out a single movement here and there.

  Beethoven was famous for taking a musical idea and building on it from movement to movement, developing that motif to its glorious conclusion. If you were to listen to just one particular movement ad nauseum, you'd be missing out on an awesome journey.

I believe Page's intent for Zep albums follows suit. More than any other band, you can see the progression of ideas from album to album. Page takes an idea and builds on it layer upon layer, almost as if he's constructing a mansion from a single red brick in the dirt.

As for Zoso, is this the band's equivalent of Beethoven's Fifth? Probably. But to fully appreciate that accomplishment, I think anyone would be well-served by digging into the building blocks that are Led Zeppelin I, II and III.

[Cyclopssss]

Has there been any discussion about the artwork yet? I´ve always found it one of the most intriguing album covers I´ve seen. Yet so simple. I always loved the one for ´Houses of the holy´ as well. Definetely trippy!

[jingle.boy]

I haven't made any comments about the artwork, but much was made at the time if it's release about the hermit on this cover, connecting it  back to Page's fascination with occultism.

[Podaar]

Funny story now.  My cousin and I as 12 and 13 year old thought we'd write our own songs and record them on cassette.  Well of course my cousin wanted me to wail like Plant so imagine a 12 year old, not yet hitting puberty, singing like plant.



I cringe every time I hear it.

I think I'd have put it to the torch by now, if I were you...









..I'd be heavier. 

[CrimsonSunrise]

It's funny reading all the commentary on LZ IV here.  Back in the day we really had very little to go by in the way of information.  There was no wikipedia, no internet.  Only the occasional radio DJ or magazine dropping a tidbit of info from the band.  I was raised calling this Led Zeppelin IV.  Never ever heard of the album referred to as..."Runes" , or "Zoso" or "Four Symbols" Me and my friends did occasionally call it the "Hermit" album, but that was just us.  The amount of info out there in the ether now regarding this album, and the band in general, is something we lacked as kids while growing up with it.  I mention that lil factoid because I've probably learned more through the sharing of info on this thread, than I actually knew back then.  Gotta love the internet!

This album, changed my life more than any other piece of music.  It was my first exposure to what would become "THE" band of my childhood/young adulthood.  To my parents dismay, I lived and breathed Zeppelin as a teenager.  They listened to Barbara Streisand and Richard Harris.  So needless to say we had quite the gap in our musical preferences.  I remember making a blockbuster trade with a kid down my street.  I got 2 HUGE LZ posters, and he got the fifth of vodka I swiped from my dads stash under the kitchen sink.  Those 2 posters stayed on my bedroom walls for at least 5 years!  In my recent top 50, my #1 was LZ I.  As I stated there, it could easily have been LZ IV or PG.  I chose 1 because it was the beginning of it all.  But like many here, I think IV has to be honestly regarded as the quintessential Led Zeppelin album.  As well as one of the greatest rock albums of all time.

Stairway to Heaven is simply the greatest rock song ever written, IMHO.  This album also illustrates more than any other that JP wanted LZ to be an album rock oriented band.  The album is an all inclusive adventure.  Each song adding to the dynamic, unlike some disjointed hodge podge of songs thrown together.  The swagger of Black Dog to kick off the adventure, and working your way to the Levee, epic....simply epic.   I can't rank the songs on this album, to do so would diminish the value and impact of whatever songs end up towards the bottom.  No song on this album belongs at the bottom of any list.

One sidebar for me...  The Subliminal message hype.  Personaly, knowing JP's abilities in the studio, his fancy with the occult, and the fact that he has no qualms borrowing ideas from other bands, I don't doubt it was done, and done intentionally.   I used to spend hours wearing out my albums ( IV and TSRTS) turning the turntable by hand backwards listening with keen intent.  I could of course be wrong, but I could hear it pretty clearly.  Guess it could be coincidence or subjective to our perception.....I don't buy it though.  Bottom line...I could give a rats ass...just think it's an interesting part of the album's history.

[King Postwhore]

Funny story now.  My cousin and I as 12 and 13 year old thought we'd write our own songs and record them on cassette.  Well of course my cousin wanted me to wail like Plant so imagine a 12 year old, not yet hitting puberty, singing like plant.



I cringe every time I hear it.

I think I'd have put it to the torch by now, if I were you...









..I'd be heavier. 

I'm like a musician, I sold my rights to my cousin in a bad contract!   Ring Dings I think.

[Orbert]

It's funny reading all the commentary on LZ IV here.  Back in the day we really had very little to go by in the way of information.  There was no wikipedia, no internet.  Only the occasional radio DJ or magazine dropping a tidbit of info from the band.  I was raised calling this Led Zeppelin IV.  Never ever heard of the album referred to as..."Runes" , or "Zoso" or "Four Symbols" Me and my friends did occasionally call it the "Hermit" album, but that was just us.  The amount of info out there in the ether now regarding this album, and the band in general, is something we lacked as kids while growing up with it.  I mention that lil factoid because I've probably learned more through the sharing of info on this thread, than I actually knew back then.  Gotta love the internet!

It makes perfect sense for people to call this album Led Zeppelin IV.  I've seen it catalogued as such, and I'm sure there are CDs and even LPs out there with Led Zeppelin IV on the spine.  Also, there was the eponymous debut, then Led Zeppelin II, then Led Zeppelin III; so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, obviously this one is Led Zeppelin IV.

Except that it doesn't actually say that anywhere.  Not on the jacket, the sleeve, or the label.  There's nothing on the jacket except the sticker, but there and on the sleeve and label in exactly the place where you'd normally find the title of the album, are the four symbols.

Hey, people can call it whatever they want.  If you call it Led Zeppelin IV, everyone knows which album you mean.  I just avoid calling it that as though it were the actual title, since officially, I'm pretty sure it's not.  Yep, pretty anal of me, but there it is.


A friend of mine has a sheet music book that he bought long, long ago, when there were only five Led Zeppelin albums.  It's called Led Zeppelin Complete.  All songs from the first five albums are included, and it's organized chronologically, each section starting with a picture of the album cover.  There's a picture of the first album with "Led Zeppelin" written under it.  "Led Zeppelin II" and "Led Zeppelin III" are similar.  Then there's the fourth album with "Led Zeppelin IV" written under it (ah-ha!), and the fifth album, commonly known as Houses of the Holy, with "Led Zeppelin V" written under it (what?!).

Seeing that made me double-check something.  Yep.  It's getting ahead of the discography a little bit, but the original jacket for the fifth album also does not have any writing on it.  It was only identified as Houses of the Holy by the paper band around it, under the shrink wrap.

Led Zeppelin.  Those wacky guys!

[jingle.boy]

Regarding posters... I had this as a door poster (it was 5x2 or so... a pretty narrow poster) on the back of my bedroom door for most of entire teenage (and University) years



I also had quite a few Zeppelin tee shirts that are (sadly) long faded and gone.

As for the title, I read somewhere in doing some research through this (as we all know) it is officially untitled, but Page has subsequently said that Led Zeppelin IV is the correct way to refer to it.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Yeah, I saw something Plant said too, calling it LZ IV.  I think we should just call it Led Zeppelin Epicness 

[jingle.boy]

Page had been working on the guitar parts that would become Stairway to Heaven for years - the basic premise being that he would create a perfect blend of acoustic with electric; soft with heavy; light with shade; cold with hot; married together into one piece of pure sonic joy that builds to a huge crescendo.  In usual Zeppelin fashion, their magnum opus draws influence from folk, blues, Celtic traditional music, and hard rock among other genres.  The softer first half of the song makes Bonham's entrance at the 4:20 mark all the more powerful and impactful. 

Stairway To Heaven first took shape in December 1970, as Zeppelin were limbering up for their fourth album. Jimmy Page was tinkering with the riff by the fire at Headley Grange, when Robert Plant spontaneously plucked the lyrics out of the air.  I would have to surmise that this is Plant's most significant lyrical achievement with Led Zeppelin (though I personally feel there is a better set of lyrics still to come).  Plant often struggled to pen his lyrics, but not this time.  "I was holding a pencil and paper," Plant would tell in interviews, "all of a sudden my hand was writing out the words… I just sat there and looked at them, and almost lept out of my seat!"  What could easily be considered the greatest guitar solo in the history of rock (it is for my tastes - despite the fact I've heard likely it over a thousand times), Page only did three takes (as he usually did with most solos), and it was the first that ended up on the record!

Like it or not, the most popular rock song of the past forty years (at least as measured by radio airplay). The song's very popularity has caused critics and fans to slag it off mercilessly. It's overrated and overplayed they'll say.  Generally agreed by every/anyone to be the most requested and most played song ever on American radio - but really, how do you quantify that? One website estimated that as of 2000, it had been over 3 million times - 46 years if you ran it continuously.  The sheet music itself has sold over a million copies - the most of any rock song ever. 

However, the song was not an immediate hit.  Crowd reaction at the Mar/'71 Belfast show where it was first played was mixed at best.  It actually took the song a couple of years to be the gargantuan anthem that it would be known as.    It was included at every subsequent Zeppelin show after it's release, and soon after it started gaining it's immense popularity (not until 1973 or so), guitar shops in the UK started to fine customers £5 if they played the "Stairway" opening.  Ironically, Plant reportedly detested the song right from the outset.  Speaking more liberally after the band broke up, he would even use the term "loathe" when speaking of Stairway to Heaven (right up until five minutes before going on stage at the '87 Atlantic Records 40th Anniversary show, he was balking at performing it).

Discuss.

[Scorpion]

I often see it that bands despise the songs that are the ones that public knows the best, often because they only become known because of the fact that they are often the only things that people know by them, and also the only thing associated by them ("You know, they are the band that played that song with that satanic message in reverse about the woman who buys strange things!"), but given LZ's popularity before IV came out, this seems to be something different. I dunno. Though I get that you start hating a song when everyone expects you to play it at every show ever, from your explanation that doesn't really sound like the case either.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I used to have a LA Forum bootleg vinyl.  I can't remember the exact date, but I'm pretty damn sure it was before IV was released.  When they played Stairway there was complete un-acknowledgement from the crowd.  At the end, they went crazy!  I don't remember a lot about the bootleg, but I remember the show kicked off with the Immigrant Song, so I'm assuming it's like a second leg US tour for LZ III ?  I just found it super cool to hear no reaction initially from the crowd, for what would arguably go on to become the greatest rock song of all time.


This was the cover for the bootleg...  Looking for a tracklist and date now...

edit - heres the show, it also had pre-release "Black Dog", "Rock and Roll" and "Going to California"   (I don't remember Rock and Roll being on it...)

August 21, 1971
Inglewood, CA US
The Forum

       
Setlist:

Immigrant Song,
Heartbreaker
Since I've Been Loving You
Black Dog
Dazed and Confused
Stairway to Heaven
Celebration Day
That's the Way
Going to California
What Is and What Should Never Be,
Whole Lotta Love (medley incl. Let That Boy Boogie, I'm Moving On, That's Alright Mama, Mess of Blues, Got a Lot of Living to Do, Honey Bee), Weekend, Rock and Roll
Communication Breakdown,
Organ solo / Thank You.

[Orbert]

I have that vinyl bootleg, too.  And yeah, it's weird hearing them play "Stairway to Heaven" here, because they just start playing the song and no one knows it, so it's just another song.  The crowd doesn't react at all.

[Podaar]

Plant reportedly detested the song right from the outset.  Speaking more liberally after the band broke up, he would even use the term "loathe" when speaking of Stairway to Heaven (right up until five minutes before going on stage at the '87 Atlantic Records 40th Anniversary show, he was balking at performing it).

Discuss.

And yet, when watching Ann and Nancy Wilson perform the song, with a huge band and orchestra, at the Kennedy Center honors, Plant has tears well up into his eyes at the "...and as we wind on down the road" moment. Maybe it took him that long to acquire the feeling I always get when hearing the song, or maybe it took him being in the audience and not on the stage but the look on his face was priceless. I think if you could have asked him in that moment 'loathe' wouldn't be a word he would use.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Just saw this on Page's website, found it quite appropriate for our latest discussion.....


HOME PAGE from Jimmy's website for August 21, 2014 ~
(Previously posted)
ON THIS DAY AUGUST 21, 1971
I PLAYED THE LOS ANGELES FORUM WITH LED ZEPPELIN
Led Zeppelin began their North American tour in Vancouver, Canada on 19th August 1971 but started in the US at the LA Forum on this day - this being the first of two nights. I remember a standing ovation from a good percentage of the audience after Stairway to Heaven – this was quite remarkable as we were touring this material from an album not to be released until three months later in November 1971.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[jingle.boy]

Apologies for my lack of attention to this.  Update (touring) post will come tomorrow morning.

[jingle.boy]

Touring:

Perhaps the most outlandish of all rumors surrounding the band was that “Led Zeppelin sold their souls to the Devil in exchange for their instant success, their addictive charisma, their unbelievable wealth. With the success afforded them by Zeppelin IV, maybe it wasn't so outlandish.

On tour, the band continued to put on three and for hour sets, letting the music speak for itself, such was the ultimate goal of IV.  Page considers Led Zeppelin the North American tour in '71 to be the point the band was at their artistic peak.  However, despite selling out their concerts (20 gigs at venues holding no less than 12,000 and grossing over $1M), the tour had the lowest profile of all of the band's eleven North American concert tours, being vastly overshadowed by the Rolling Stones' tour of the same period - despite outselling the Stones 3:1.  It was at around this period in time that Grant began to implement the unprecedented policy of asking (demanding) concert promoters for 90% of all gate receipts.  The group's stature was such that he was able to pull off this major swing with little resistance from the agents and promoters - well, they resisted, but never with any success. Any deal with Led Zeppelin was better than no deal at all was Grant's message to them (along with his physical stature) ... 10% of a Zeppelin gate was better than 50% of nothing.  As a consequence Led Zeppelin's fortune began to pile up at an even faster rate.  It is this tour that forms a good chunk of the 2003 DVD and accompanying release How He West Was Won. 

It has been suggested that the tour of the UK in the winter of '71 confirmed the status of Led Zeppelin's supremacy in the United Kingdom rock marketplace. Taking place immediately after the release of Led Zeppelin IV, all tickets sold out despite going on sale less than a week before the commencement of the tour. Second shows at Wembley and at Manchester needed to be added after fans lined up for up to eighteen hours in order to secure a ticket.

Their first tour of '72 was meant to start in Singapore, but because of their long hair, the band was refused entry to the country.  They did tour New Zealand and Australia however, and took a brief respite afterwards, allowing Page and Plant to visit India together.  The impact on them would be felt in every subsequent release in some manner, with Page fusing eastern and western styles and genres brilliantly. Their second (and final) stint through Japan, would treat fans to John Paul Jones on the mellotron for the first time.

Some observers have noted that it was during these tours that the vocals of singer Robert Plant began to show signs of damage, as he arguably started to lose the extremely high-pitched wail which was evident on previous concert tours and album releases. In particular, Plant strained to sing the song "Rock and Roll", leading him to change the melody of the song to a lower register on all future tours.

The band returned to the United Kingdom at the end of '72, and sadly it would be the last full UK tour Led Zeppelin would ever undertake.  This was Led Zeppelin's longest ever tour of the UK, and the original 110,000 tickets for the 25 dates sold out within four hours of box offices opening simultaneously on November 10th. Tickets were priced at £1 for all the concerts, except for the shows at Manchester, which gouged fans for £1.25! 

Some shows during this tour were at small theater-size venues, attended by a 'black-tie' crowds showing little of the raging enthusiasm Zeppelin was used to.  One show in particular in Southampton was professionally recorded and intended for an official release, but the performance quality was not deemed adequate enough.

[Cyclopssss]

Yeah, I´m reading ´Hammer of the gods´ right now and boy those touring stories..... 

[Orbert]

Their first tour of '72 was meant to start in Singapore, but because of their long hair, the band was refused entry to the country.

Ah, the 70's.  What a great time.

[jammindude]

Speaking of Robert Plant's vocals.   I probably need to go back and listen to some older stuff...because I've always just credited the changing of the melody to him having a full understanding of what was a "studio note" and what could actually be done live.    Any singer knows that there are things you can do when you're relaxed and rested in a studio, that you cannot do 6-7 nights a week whilst underneath the hot lights of a concert stage. 

Black Dog in particular.  I don't think I've *ever* heard that one done live in the original studio melody....but what he did with it live still worked!   I think he was pretty smart to come up with something that still sounded good...and yet had the foresight to know that he could probably still sing it as he continued to get older.

[jingle.boy]

Walking side by side with death, The devil mocks their every step
The snow drives back the foot that's slow, The dogs of doom are howling more
They carry news that must get through, To build a dream for me and you



Being on their way to the peak of their popularity, the title Houses of the Holy pays homage to the massive venues they played full of their adoring fans.  Intended for release in January of 1973, delays in producing the cover pushed it back, and Houses of the Holy was released by Atlantic Records on March 28, 1973. It would be the final album on the Atlantic label, having completed their 5 album deal, and the first album with an actual title (thank you Captain Obvious).  It is their first album composed of entirely original material, and represents a musical turning point for the band, who had begun to record songs with more layering and production techniques.  Though it took two months to reach #1 on the Billboard charts, and fell out of that #1 spot after just two weeks, it would ultimately go on to be a huge success, being certified eleven times platinum by the RIAA. 

A good chunk of the album was recorded in the Spring 1972, again using the Rolling Stones Mobile Studio this time at a Berkshire country estate owned by Mick Jagger - Stargroves. Some of the songs from the album had initially been developed in earlier writing sessions that didn't make the cut on III or IV.  The balance of recording was done during the band's 1972 North American tour.  Page and Jones brought some of the more recognizable songs (The Rain Song and No Quarter) to the writing sessions as fully developed demos they'd laid down at their own personal studios.  There was absolutely no shortage of material to chose from for this album.  The band would take months obsessing and debating which songs to include - so much so, that the title track didn't even make the cut.  For this album, Jones was given a lot more leeway to experiment and contribute with some very unique tones and ambient sounds, as is quite evidenced by No Quarter.

A very obvious shift away from the blues and Celtic inspired themes of the first four albums, this album gives us a trio of songs that are about as "rock 'n' roll" as there is in the Zeppelin catalogue.  After that, you've got reggae, funk, atmospheric, and a poppy doo-wap section to close the album.  Put all that together, and you have what is (in my opinion) their most diverse album.

Coming off the heels of the phenomenal success of IV, the writing and recording sessions were incredibly relaxed. However, also due to the fact it was following IV, Houses is like the younger sibling of an incredibly famous/talented individual - like Eli Manning - pretty fucking amazing in its own right, but still pales in comparison to its 'older brother'.

The album was promoted heavily before the start of Led Zeppelin's subsequent North American Tour, ensuring that it had ascended the top of the American chart by the beginning of the tour - though many songs had been repeatedly played on their 72-73 would tours, as the recordings had been complete for quite some time.

[Xenon]

I love that album. My favorite from them.

[Orbert]

Another great one.  The fourth album and this one are the two I can listen to all the way through, over and over, and never feel the urge to skip any song.  Both are solid, cover to cover, and I think I might like this one a little bit more.

[TAC]

Amazing that this album was recorded in 1972. A lot of people give Boston's debut some major props for its 1976 production, but Houses might even be more impressive.

[hefdaddy42]

A gorgeous sounding album full of incredible songs.  Masters working at the peak of their ability.  Virtually flawless.

[King Postwhore]

Amazing that this album was recorded in 1972. A lot of people give Boston's debut some major props for its 1976 production, but Houses might even be more impressive.

So well said.

Like Bob said, not a song to skip on this album and the replay value to this day is still there.

[Kwyjibo]

This is such a great record. Trying out new things while maintaining the Led Zeppelin trademark sound. John Paul Jones is a huge integral part of this record, not onyl because of his stellar bass playing but also because of his keyboard work, most notably in The Quarter and The Rain Song.

The Song Remains The Same has such great guitar work with so many layers flowing together.

The Rain song is one of the most deep, emotional and moving ballads ever. Everything here is perfect, the guitar, the piano and mellotron, the time when the drums come in and on top of that one of Plant's best vocal performances.

No Quarter creates a dark and brooding atmosphere. It took me some time to appreciate this song, but once it clicked, it clicked hard.

The Ocean has one of Page's trademark riffs and the cool doo-wop part.

Over The Hills And Far Away is a cool rocker with the folky acoustic intro and outro.

Dancing Days is the most "conventional" track on the record but still very good.

The Crunge is a funny funky jam. Have you seen the bridge?

D'yer Mak'er is a song not to be taken too seriously and then it is a fun listen.

[TAC]

Amazing that this album was recorded in 1972. A lot of people give Boston's debut some major props for its 1976 production, but Houses might even be more impressive.

So well said.

Like Bob said, not a song to skip on this album and the replay value to this day is still there.

I always skip The Crunge. 

And while I like The Rain Song a lot. I really have to be in the mood for it. It doesn't stop me in my tracks the way Stairway or In The Light does.