The Led Zeppelin Discography Discussion: v. Everything still turns to gold

[CrimsonSunrise]

Led Zeppelin II is just an outstanding album.  Especially when you think about how it was hashed together on the road using multiple studios.  It just shows how masterful in the studio JP is. Highlights for me on this one are Heartbreaker/Living Loving Maid, which I've always thought of as a song duo.  Of all the radio plays I listened to in the '70-90's they were played back to back 99% of the time.  In my book, they just go together... kinda like peas and carrots.   "Thank You" was me and my high school sweethearts "Song",  so like Orbert, it holds a special place in my heart and memories.  The Lemon song, Bring it on Home, Ramble on.... all classics!!  Whole Lotta Love, while good, I think the studio version is just OK.  My wife, who's a great sport when it comes to indulging me while I rock out in the house or car, will actually change the song if it comes on...she HATES it....   Yet she loves every other Zep song I've played for her to some degree or another.   As far as the love loss between the band and Rolling Stone ragazine, I think Ludwig covered it very well.  I really dislike RS... they're a bunch of serious fucking wankers...always have been in my book.

Heartbreaker/Living Loving Maid
Bring It On Home
Ramble On
Thank You
What Is and What Should Never Be
The Lemon Song
Whole Lotta Love
Moby Dick

Anyone ever see the original video for "Whole Lotta Love"?  This was way back before videos were common, but some songs back in the 70's did have videos.  There was a show on regular TV (I don't remember the name) back before MTV, that played videos, and they showed the video for "Whole Lotta Love".  Either someone didn't bother watching the whole thing, or they just didn't care, but there are a couple shots of bare boobs in there.  Hey, this was regular TV back in the 70's and I was a schoolboy.  This was exciting stuff.  Boobs on TV!

Don't think I ever had the pleasure of seeing that!!   Was it like "Don Kirshner's rock concert" show or something similiar?

[Orbert]

Yeah, it was one of those type things.  Before MTV, we had "Friday Night Videos" and stuff like that on network TV.  It may even have been a local or regional show; I really don't remember.  But I remember seeing boobs on TV.  Black and white, low res, but unexpected and always welcome.

And even then, I remember thinking that if any band would do it, it would be Led Zeppelin.  A few minutes into the song, after the censors have stopped paying attention, ha ha, sneak some in there.

[masterthes]

It still amuses me how Whole Lotta Love is basically one giant orgasm set to music.

I think it could be argued about 3/4 of their catalouge is like that 

[hefdaddy42]

Boobs on TV is still cause for celebration!

[masterthes]

A day of celebration indeed (how's that for a nifty segue to the next album? )

[jingle.boy]

The group increasingly shunned television appearances (a popular promotional outlet in the 60s and 70s), citing their preference that their fans hear and see them in live concerts... also propelling them forward as concert legends.  Maybe not the band's preference, but definitely Peter Grant's.  His theory was that if the only way you could see Zeppelin live was in concert, he could not only make more money from the resulting larger gates, but he could command more money from promoters.  And he was right.  Combining their tight understanding and musical chemistry together with a shared willingness to try new things on-stage, they delivered an unparalleled stage presence.  Ultimately, the combination of the band's performance along with Grant's management would fundamentally change the concert industry.

Just prior to the release of Zeppelin II, the band returned to the US for their fourth US tour in 10 months.  Grant and the band had been at the forefront of changing the economics of touring - shifting from clubs and theaters, to stadiums and arenas... bringing them financial rewards beyond compare.  By 1970, they starting touring in the UK without a support act, something reserved for only the biggest acts in the world.  The reason being they were constantly running into curfew issues (largely due to 30 minute drum solos, and 20+ minute renditions of Dazed and Confused, and Whole Lotta Love).  Rather than feeling constrained with their time slots, they dropped their opening acts, often putting on shows of 4+ hours - with only two albums worth of material!  They would be the first pop/rock act to play Carnegie Hall since the Stones did five years earlier.  They would also play Royal Albert Hall, filming it professionally with intentions of the performance to be released for a proposed documentary project. However, the footage was reportedly filmed at the wrong speed, and though a 40 feature was prepared, the band declared it to be of unsatisfactory quality.  (More to come on this show later, as it spawned the 2003 release, Led Zeppelin DVD)

Their European tour in early 1970 would see them test some of their material from the forthcoming Zeppelin III album.  It would also see them touring in Copenhagen, where a show was nearly cancelled when Frau Eva von Zeppelin - a descendant of the airship inventor - threatened to sue over what she felt was infringement upon the family name.  In response, the band played that show under the moniker "The Nobs".  Not to be appeased, von Zeppelin barged into a television appearance in a a near fit of rage.  She was appeased by the bands charms only until she saw the cover of the debut album, which resulted in another explosion (pun fully intended).  The controversy in Copenhagen was considered advantageous to Led Zeppelin early in their career, as the incident gained them worldwide publicity.

In March of 1970, Zeppelin were featured in an article in the Financial Times, noting the group would make $800,000 from a 21-date one-month tour.  The article would bring further mainstream relevance to the band.  Their performance at the Bath Festival of Blues in the UK in front of an audience of 150,000 people is widely considered by music critics, and members of Led Zeppelin itself, as representing a turning point in terms of the amount of recognition they received in Britain. And it was a good thing too, as Peter Grant had turned down $250,000 in shows in the US for the same weekend.  Though it almost didn't happen - The Flock (playing ahead of them) were running long, and the sun was setting.  Richard Cole literally pulled the plug on them so Zeppelin could get that brilliant lighting moment.  Naturally, a fight between the bands ensued, but Zeppelin would put on the show of their (short) career to that point. They would set attendance records in Canada (though Page would have his Gibson Les Paul guitar stolen from the Vancouver airport), be made honorary citizens of Memphis (of all places), and ultimately start taking in over $1M for their repetitive month-long stints.

The tours however, were rather onerous on the band.  They had no problems selling out their shows, but the situation behind the scene was turning a tad grim.  1970 was a turbulent time in US society, and with the band was receiving death threats, armed guards and police escorts became the norm.  Peter Grant and Richard Cole began to build a gangster image for themselves to protect the bands interests.  As a result, the band no longer enjoyed the wild freedom their tours of 1969 afforded them.  Every minute detail of their itineraries was dictated to them, which (understandably) drove them nuts - often confined to their hotel rooms between shows - which they often trashed to pass time.

After a brief break in the spring, the band returned to the US for a late summer tour, which would see them regularly rake in $25k per show, topping the tour with a $100k haul for two shows at Madison Square Gardens.  They had also just been voted the 'best band' by the fans of the most influential UK music publication at the time, taking the title away from the Beatles for the first time in eight years.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, it was one of those type things.  Before MTV, we had "Friday Night Videos" and stuff like that on network TV.  It may even have been a local or regional show; I really don't remember.  But I remember seeing boobs on TV.  Black and white, low res, but unexpected and always welcome.

And even then, I remember thinking that if any band would do it, it would be Led Zeppelin.  A few minutes into the song, after the censors have stopped paying attention, ha ha, sneak some in there.

And Don Kirshner's Rock Concert!

[TAC]

And Don Kirshner's Rock Concert!

 

[King Postwhore]

 

[Jaq]

1970 is one of the more under represented years in my collection of Zep boots, not because the performances aren't available-they are, naturally-but really, the Royal Albert Hall show is so good and exists in professional release worthy quality that you can have that and some of the shows later in the year where LZ III material starts getting played and be good. I have the Copenhagen show mentioned here in an incomplete audience recording, and a few other ones here and there. The band remains on fire live, but moving up from smaller to larger venues, the energy is different. The 1969 boots, you can feel the riotous joy of this huge band playing in smaller venues and wrecking the place. The 1970 shows have a different type of energy entirely. Royal Albert Hall needs to be at least heard, though it's amazing on DVD, as I'll discuss when we get there.

[Anguyen92]

The reason being they were constantly running into curfew issues  (largely due to 30 minute drum solos, and 20+ minute renditions of Dazed and Confused, and Whole Lotta Love)

Well, maybe if they cut those down a bit, they wouldn't have curfew issues.  Did the concert-goers really enjoy these friken long versions of songs?  I don't think I could have bear a 30 min. drum solo.  A 5 min. solo would be nice as a breather, but 30? (even if it is John Bonham).  That was pretty much my gripe with Zeppelin when reading about them and these long ass renditions.  Improvisations and calling things on the fly is great, but, sometimes, overdoinging it could be overwhleming to handle, imo.  Sorry about that brief rant, but I'm always in the house of more songs > long pointless solos.

[mikeyd23]

Clearly you've never watched a Bonham solo live or a lot of their extended jams, they were things of beauty.  Generally speaking, I agree with you, most bands can't pull that kinda stuff off and hold my attention.  LZ is the exception to that rule, at least for me.  The extensions of songs, extended solos, etc were so magical I could watch them all day.

[jingle.boy]

I wasn't around to bear witness first hand, but since Zeppelin was redefining the concert going experience, everything I've read suggests those in attendance were lapping it up.  The fact they could command $25k per venue in 1970 dollars seems to reinforce that. They were doing things that had never been done before, so while it may seem like overdoing it by today's standards, 45 years ago it was groundbreaking.

[Podaar]

It was a different time. Audiences were pretty mellow (chemically induced) and jams, improvs and such were way more common and sought after. Deep Purple, The Grateful Dead, The Doors, Chicago, King Crimson, Jefferson Airplane, Fleetwood Mac, etc. etc. were all doing this and fans really dug it. I dare say, it was even expected.

Of course, Zep brought a whole new level of firepower to the jams. It was cool at the time.

[TempusVox]

Yeah...I have a cousin who was in his late teens during this period, and I recall that he and his friends came from a particular concert (don't remember who it was now...sorry), and they were all giddy that the band they went to see played four songs. It was like they were in awe that a band could play an entire concert and drag the whole thing out with only four songs played. I'm not talking about a short set. I'm talking about a 90 (at least) minute show. Back then, if a band could find a groove and sustain it for an extended period, people were really into ''feeling the vibe" of the music. This particular wave of sound is especially important if you are let's say "blazed out of your gourd". 

[Jaq]

It was truly a different time. Back then, bands rarely if ever played straight versions of their hits: live was where they stretched out and explored boundaries and occasionally (as happened with Zep a lot) developed songs from bits that came out of live jams. It had worn out its welcome by the late 1970s, for a wide variety of reasons: the arena rock explosion in particular tempered that sort of habit, and a lot of the best practitioners of it either broke up or moved away from it (even Zep, by 1980, had scaled back the jamming, and Rainbow, which had continued Deep Purple's penchant for jamming, had moved towards a more commercial sound) but the early 70s were the glory days of bands stretching songs out to insane lengths, and the audiences loved it.

[KevShmev]

That's cause they were all stoned out of their minds. 

Nowadays, with distractions like cell phones and people never shutting up during concerts, those kinds of long jams wouldn't go over too well, especially on that much of a regular basis.

[LudwigVan]

Not to mention the advent of punk rock in the late seventies, with their 2-minute songs and no solos. It became fashionable at the time to lambast the 'dinosaur' rock bands like Zep and Floyd for putting on bloated, self-indulgent performances.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, extended jamming used to be more of a norm.  Now there is a niche genre for that, the "jam bands."

[jingle.boy]

Society's attention span just isn't what it....

Squirrel!

[hefdaddy42]

BTW, many of the current jam bands are fantastic.  But obviously, some of you probably won't like many of them very much.

[LudwigVan]

The thing about jams is that you will have stretches of tedium mixed with musical brilliance that will bring a song to another level. It takes a modicum of patience to get to those moments of transcendence, which a lot of people (understandably) just don't have.

Even on some of the Zep boots I own, I can sense the crowd losing it during the 30-45 minute versions of Dazed. I have one boot where one disgruntled fan yells out "play some f*cking music!"  Lol.

IMO the best Zep improvs are when they inject a new riff pattern in the middle of the song, or when Page throws in a few extra licks on his solo. One of my favorite things is when they stretch out No Quarter. I have one boot where JPJ plays this fantastically spaced-out piano solo.

[TempusVox]

Society's attention span just isn't what it....

Squirrel!

That's a really interesting topic. Recently the local paper ran a story about concert etiquette, and the fact that the crowds at more and more shows that appeal to a younger audience just aren't really there to hear the bands anymore. Apparently at two recent concerts (ZZ Top, and a Toad the Wet Sprocket/Counting Crowes show) the crowd was so noisy that the bands were drowned out. The guy who wrote the article said that Billy Gibbons says that's becoming the rule and not the exception anymore. He said younger audiences are there to socialize, and will actually be surfing their phones and playing games, and talking/laughing so much that the band becomes a backdrop to the event. They also quoted one of the guys from the Counting Crows who said at a recent concert someone in a very loud group of fans near the stage yelled at them that they (the band) were too loud. 

[Anguyen92]

Boy, if you want to pay $25-$50 bucks just to surf on phones and play games like that, I think the band doesn't mind that at all.  They'll just be glad to take your money if you want to spend it on a concert ticket and do that.

That said, it would be infuriating, as a band, as a performer, where your main goal is to entertain and give people their money's worth in giving them a show and some people don't let the band give them that chance in the 1st place.

[Kotowboy]

Listening to Physical Graffiti .

Kashmir sounds incredible for 1975. Unless my copy is a remastered / remixed version.

[jingle.boy]

Could be.  Most (all?) of the releases since the first box-set have had some tweaking done to them.

Speaking of which IV and Houses get the 2014 remaster treatment, release date October 28th.  Just announced a couple days ago.



I, II, and III from June are incredible, especially with the bonus material.

[LudwigVan]

I just ordered the I-III remasters. Not that I need the remasters themselves since I've got all the vinyls and a box set of the CDs, but when I sampled some of the bonus material, I just couldn't do without.

[Nel]

Debating double-dipping for the remasters. If they're going to keep going, maybe they'll do a new box set for all the albums once they've all been released. I might hold out for something like that. Unless Page is only going up to a certain point?

[hefdaddy42]

I can't believe he wouldn't want to do all of them.  I would imagine he is spacing them out for marketing reasons.

[jingle.boy]

I read that all 9 studio releases will get this remaster treatment, all with a bonus/companion disc of previously unreleased material.  For any hardcore (or even medium core) fan, I think it's worth it.  From the first three, the Olympia gig is phenomenal, and the alternative vocal mixes are really, REALLY cool.  The backing tracks (ie, no vocals) are ok, but not nearly as exciting as new live material or alternative mixes/vocals

And as I hinted at with my song-by-song commentary, the remaster of the albums themselves cleans up a few things.  The guitar solos in I Can't Quit You Baby and What Is And What Should Never Be, sound absolutely magnificent... way better than I remember them on my original CD, or the 1990 box set.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[jingle.boy]

And yesterday I saw you kissing tiny flowers,
But all that lives is born to die.
And so I say to you that nothing really matters,
And all you do is stand and cry.



1   Immigrant Song   2:25
2   Friends   3:53
3   Celebration Day   3:29
4   Since I've Been Loving You   7:23
5   Out on the Tiles   4:06
6   Gallows Pole   4:55
7   Tangerine   3:10
8   That's the Way   5:37
9   Bron-Y-Aur Stomp   4:19
10   Hats off to (Roy) Harper   3:39

In 1970 Page and Plant retired to Bron-Yr-Aur, a remote cottage in Wales without any running water or electricity, to commence work on their third album, aptly titled Led Zeppelin III.  Contrasting from the first two albums in a very significant and noticeable way (the opening track notwithstanding), III was more acoustic with a style that was quite clearly influenced by Folk and Celtic music, showcasing the band's immense versatility.  The month-long retreat would prove to be the most productive and inspirational period for the band - bringing Plant and Page closer together as a writing duo - "It was the first time I really came to know Robert" Page would declare.  The songs took the band in directions they had never gone before, and the trip established their penchant for using travel as a form of writing inspiration. Bron-Yr-Aur also produced more than just inspiration... it also produced a pregnant Charlotte Martin, bearing their first and only child together (though Page had subsequent children), Scarlet.

It can never be said that a Zeppelin album sounds "samey", and this is one of the more diverse albums from their catalog. Released on October 5, 1970, it debuted at #1 in both the UK and US charts, though its stay would be the shortest of their first five albums (just 15 weeks in the US).  Once again, the label went against the bands wishes, releasing Immigrant Song as a single that would only chart as high as 16 in the US.  The album was recorded through the Rolling Stones' portable studio, which allowed them to record in a relaxed atmosphere, as they didn't have a fixed block of studio time by which they had to adhere to.  They ended up recording most tracks quickly in the mobile studio after much rehearsal, and Page used leftover moments to add layers upon layers of acoustic guitar riffs.  Even before the release, Plant warned that a different direction was coming, proclaiming in on interview "Led Zeppelin go soft".

Critics compared the release (and not in a kind way) to Crosby, Stills, and Nash - which seems ludicrous.  Sure, there were 5 acoustic songs (the same number on I and II combined), but they are all incredible songs - all showcasing a different element of acoustic bliss.  And when the band got heavy on this album, they got HEAVY.  Immigrant Song and Out on the Tiles are arguably two of their heaviest tracks from the entire catalog - furious riffs, soaring and powerful vocals, and a pounding rhythm section led by Bonhams lead foot... I mean, to compare this to CSN is a joke - and it infuriated the band, especially Page.

Equally confounding, for as many critics that called it soft or 'acoustic-Zeppelin', there were those that called it too loud and aggressive.  Page and Bonham were rather sensitive to the derision, but kept it behind closed doors for the most part.  However, Page stopped giving interviews for over a year and a half.  The negative reception from the critics would play a large part in the release of their next album.

It was at this time that Page's fascination with occultism started to take hold.  In this day and age of the interwebz, it would have been analyzed to death, but 45 years ago, information did not flow as freely.  So, the inscriptions on the outro of the vinyl - "Do what thou wilt" and "So mote be it" - remnants of quotes from occult priest, and "the wickedest man alive", Aleister Crowley, went largely unnoticed.  When Page bought Crowley's former residence, and an entire bookstore dedicated to the Occult, not much notice was taken.  The band still had more of a reputation for thrashing hotel rooms, and misadventures with groupies, drugs and alcohol - not that their leader was an occultist.

Track-by-track thoughts to come later.

[King Postwhore]

The opening song is my second favorite Zep song of all time and I can't tell you how many times I've been caught in my car singing, "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh AH!"

This album is one to play multiple times to soak in.  Not accessible as the other albums.

[TempusVox]

There are some amazing songs on this record; housing three of my top five favorite Zeppelin tunes. The band surely expanded their horizons from the straight out hard rock they'd offered up on the first two efforts. Probably my favorite LZ song of them all is "Since I Been Loving You". I love absolutely everything about this song; and I had my own personal experience with this song (sort of) that was quickly added to, and simultaneously scratched off my "bucket list" in one fell swoop.

Here's the story. When the RR HoF inducted LZ, of course a ton of their memorabilia was sent to the museum for display. I was in Cleveland and went to the Hall early one day. On the third floor in it's own room, hidden from general view was an exhibit of all of the actual instruments that were used to record this particular record. There was JPJ's Hammond C3, Pages '58 Les Paul, and then there it was...that Ludwig Speed King model #201 pedal. The "Squeak King"! The same pedal JHB used his entire career. Now this pedal can be heard sqeaking away on several LZ songs, but the one that stands out the most for me is of course "Since I Been Loving You" . The same pedal squeak that has caused Page to cringe every time he hears it for the last 40-odd years, is the same pedal that adds soooo much character to this song in my opinion. At any rate, I was alone in the room, and could NOT resist! Carefully I edged up to the barrier and shoving my arm through the cables surrounding the display, I used my hand to push the pedal, and IT SQEAKED when I manipulated it! I thought I was gonna smile my shorts! I then got carried away thinking I hadn't actually played with it enough until I actually could make it hit the drum, so now I'm on all fours reaching through the cables so I could get a good angle. During this time a few more people ambled into the room, but I didn't care. I pushed the pedal, it sqeaked, and I hit the bass several times in rapid succession, with increasing intensity. I quickly stood up, and a guy in the room looked at me and we both smiled that smile you share with a stranger when you both think something is really cool; but this large black female security guard came flying around the corner, and she was rightfully pissed. "Who was playing around with the drum set?" she demanded. Everyone played dumb, but she admonished each of us anyway with "If you're caught touching the displays, you will be asked to leave, and may be permanently barred from here!" I sheepishly feigned shock like the actual witnesses in the room, and glad they didn't sell me out, I left the room and went on my way; but I was on cloud nine the rest of the day. And every time I think about it, it makes me smile. I'm such a criminal!! 

My order of these songs would be:

1) Since I Been Loving You. Very multi-layered, deep blues track. And one of the Top 5 guitar solos of all-time.
2) Immigrant Song. Comes on like a super-nova driven by that Banshee-like wail! Damn, what a great tune. You can "feel" the vikings coming on that one.
3) Gallows Pole. Very menacing flair, but done with a traditional vibe. This rounds out 3 of my top 5 all-time.
4) Bron-Y-Aur Stomp
5) Friends
6) That's the Way
7) Hats Off to Roy Harper
8) Celebration Day
9) Out On the Tiles
10) Tangerine

[LudwigVan]

Jingle I love that you preface each album post with a Zep lyric. It's a reminder to me of just how underrated Plant was as a lyricist. For good or bad, the media preferred to focus on his vocals, looks and strutting stage presence, instead of his prowess as a writer. Plant's hippie-dippy sensibilities were a perfect counterbalance to Page's dark mystery. These lyrics are ingrained in my heart, body and soul.

As a pimply-face tweener back in the early 70s, I was all agog over the heavy aggressive  riffage of Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker and Immigrant Song. So when I bought II and III expecting more of the same throughout each album, I was somewhat baffled and disappointed when I heard tunes like Thank You, Tangerine and That's the Way. Obviously I was just a stupid kid.