Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?

[rumborak]

This one is probably my favorite song of his:

 https://youtu.be/WSeNSzJ2-Jw

And again, crank it up. Its incredible.
I mean, it doesn't have to be your next "best music ever", but listen to how he constructs those bizarre sounds into a cohesive whole that is truly progressive, at the literal meaning of the word.

On the contrary, I've found that the bizarre sounds tend to detract from the overall cohesiveness of his music.  They have a way of distracting me from the brilliance of some of the underlying music.  But that's just me, of course.

To explain my enjoyment of this a bit, it's that exact (sometimes intentionally jarring) transitions that make it what it is. Like, he will hint at a harmonic backing, but then this incredibly awesome and aggressive sound will tear it to shreds, only to join back in with the harmonic stuff later.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Is that what dubstep is, cuz I was unclear on that too.

Well Skrillex belongs to a subgenre called brostep. There's also dubstep like this.

I'm generally not a fan of brostep but I am a fan of the other stuff.

[TAC]

It's all noisestep to me.

[425]

Trying it back to the OP point, people like Skrillex are truly progressive. The prog genre, for the most part, has a bunch of flies flying over it. It's just all technical skill at this point and regurgitation of tired concepts.

Yeah (and I need to be careful not to resurrect that old prog/progressive debate), but personally I would much rather listen to a genre that produces music that I personally enjoy while not going into as many new styles than a genre that tries a bunch of new things stylistically but produces music that I personally don't want to listen to.

That said, I listened to one of the Skrillex songs you posted (Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites). It's pretty cool, and definitely took skill to make. A little weird for me in parts but so is a lot of prog. So I guess I'm mostly with you on the virtues of Skrillex, I just wanted to register my disagreement with the implication that it's bad if a genre is not always doing new things stylistically.

[npiazza91]

Yeah like I already said I like  dubstep a lot.  Scary Monsters is my favorite Skrillex song by far.  The only thing I hate about it is after the bass drops, it keeps doing that higher pitched de-ne-ne-ne-ne-ne (best way to describe it lol) rhythm over and over again.  It's extremely annoying and sounds like a generic pop beat.  It breaks up the bass drops.  But I LOVE the bass drops themselves, I love how the rhythm never stays consistent, it has a lot in common with prog.

Check this out by the way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4CQgWKv9Q

This is my kind of dubstep.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

It's all noisestep to me.

Really not sure how you find Burial noisy but fair enough.

[Outcrier]

I think Dubstep is a genre that produces little timeless music (Burial being one of the the exceptions) but, still, there is creative stuff if you dig.

[Lucien]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4CQgWKv9Q

This is my kind of dubstep.

And that is indeed GOOD music. It is not a guilty pleasure AT ALL to like that.

thanks for showing me that

[SoundscapeMN]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years or less, Skrillex and really the whole dubstep genre of sorts goes the way of Grunge, Nu-Metal and the more forgettable bands and genres that are just regarded as a fad and not really historically, incredibly significant.

It wouldn't surprise me if the same happened with Djent.

The best value I can see from them is some artists may take a little of that style and combine it with other styles and frankly, artists that actually WRITE GOOD SONGS, which wouldn't surprise me if it has to do with their ability to do some fundamental things in music well, like sing, come up with a memorable/catchy melody or rhythm.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think Dubstep is a genre that produces little timeless music (Burial being one of the the exceptions) but, still, there is creative stuff if you dig.

I'm no fan of dubstep, but isn't it too early in any event to say that it's not timeless?

[erwinrafael]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years or less, Skrillex and really the whole dubstep genre of sorts goes the way of Grunge, Nu-Metal and the more forgettable bands and genres that are just regarded as a fad and not really historically, incredibly significant.

I don't see how grunge could be considered a fad when you can still hear the influence of Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains in a lot of current music.

[rumborak]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years or less, Skrillex and really the whole dubstep genre of sorts goes the way of Grunge, Nu-Metal and the more forgettable bands and genres that are just regarded as a fad and not really historically, incredibly significant.

Grunge was historically insignificant? Lol, OK then.

I'm assuming you view prog metal as historically significant?

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years or less, Skrillex and really the whole dubstep genre of sorts goes the way of Grunge, Nu-Metal and the more forgettable bands and genres that are just regarded as a fad and not really historically, incredibly significant.

Grunge was historically insignificant? Lol, OK then.

I'm assuming you view prog metal as historically significant?

I get that his statement on grunge was ignorant, but let's not tear down any straw mans here.

[TioJorge]

God, this thread is so many levels of awesome. 

[Zook]

I used to be one of those guys who thought Prog metal was superior to everything, but I don't know how to finish this sentence.

I've actually stopped looking for new prog metal bands because the genre is so stale now. I await my existing favorites to release new stuff, but otherwise I'm looking for other kinds of music. For a while now I've been searching for new female fronted bands, and have found albums I like by artists I don't like, Paramore for example. Another shocker is Taylor Swift's latest album. Her country stuff is complete bollocks, but her new pop album is great, and aside from a couple crappy moments (Bad Blood's shitty chorus and Shake It Off's shitty bridge) I enjoy 1989 more than Dream Theater's newest, and I think DT12 is great too and has NO crappy moments.

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

[npiazza91]

Honestly, they can do A LOT with dubstep.  I for one, want to see dubstep combined with Prog Metal.  Imagine if, in the middle of ITNOG, the bass drops or something. Or instead of the bebot solo in AROP, we can have a cool bass drop solo.  I think dubstep would work extremely well as a sort of backdrop to a song, or a solo of some kind.

[npiazza91]

I used to be one of those guys who thought Prog metal was superior to everything, but I don't know how to finish this sentence.

I've actually stopped looking for new prog metal bands because the genre is so stale now. I await my existing favorites to release new stuff, but otherwise I'm looking for other kinds of music. For a while now I've been searching for new female fronted bands, and have found albums I like by artists I don't like, Paramore for example. Another shocker is Taylor Swift's latest album. Her country stuff is complete bollocks, but her new pop album is great, and aside from a couple crappy moments (Bad Blood's shitty chorus and Shake It Off's shitty bridge) I enjoy 1989 more than Dream Theater's newest, and I think DT12 is great too and has NO crappy moments.

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

Taylor Swift's Speak Now is easily her best in my opinion.  Haven't heard the new one yet, but I prefer her country than her pop.  Pop isn't my thing.

[Zook]

Honestly, they can do A LOT with dubstep.  I for one, want to see dubstep combined with Prog Metal.  Imagine if, in the middle of ITNOG, the bass drops or something. Or instead of the bebot solo in AROP, we can have a cool bass drop solo.  I think dubstep would work extremely well as a sort of backdrop to a song, or a solo of some kind.

You mean like what's actually in the song before "justifying violence", but instead of the little techno thing we have BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHBBBBWWWEEEEEEEEEWUBWUBWUBWUB?

[npiazza91]

Honestly, they can do A LOT with dubstep.  I for one, want to see dubstep combined with Prog Metal.  Imagine if, in the middle of ITNOG, the bass drops or something. Or instead of the bebot solo in AROP, we can have a cool bass drop solo.  I think dubstep would work extremely well as a sort of backdrop to a song, or a solo of some kind.

You mean like what's actually in the song before "justifying violence", but instead of the little techno thing we have BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHBBBBWWWEEEEEEEEEWUBWUBWUBWUB?

Yup, or even TDEN, instead of that weird techno hermony thing.  I happen to love those weird, out of place techno solo things DT puts into their songs to break up the solo, but I think a crazy bass drops for a couple seconds would be even more awesome.

[erwinrafael]

I actually dabble a lot in Hans Zimmer soundtracks nowadays. I don't know why I am saying this in this thread but it feels so appropriate. 

[Bolsters]

Another shocker is Taylor Swift's latest album. Her country stuff is complete bollocks, but her new pop album is great, and aside from a couple crappy moments (Bad Blood's shitty chorus and Shake It Off's shitty bridge) I enjoy 1989 more than Dream Theater's newest, and I think DT12 is great too and has NO crappy moments.

1989 is probably my favourite release this year.

[425]

I used to be one of those guys who thought Prog metal was superior to everything, but I don't know how to finish this sentence.

I've actually stopped looking for new prog metal bands because the genre is so stale now. I await my existing favorites to release new stuff, but otherwise I'm looking for other kinds of music. For a while now I've been searching for new female fronted bands, and have found albums I like by artists I don't like, Paramore for example. Another shocker is Taylor Swift's latest album. Her country stuff is complete bollocks, but her new pop album is great, and aside from a couple crappy moments (Bad Blood's shitty chorus and Shake It Off's shitty bridge) I enjoy 1989 more than Dream Theater's newest, and I think DT12 is great too and has NO crappy moments.

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

Taylor Swift's Speak Now is easily her best in my opinion.  Haven't heard the new one yet, but I prefer her country than her pop.  Pop isn't my thing.

I haven't heard either Red or 1989 yet, because I only recently regained interest in her music, but Fearless and Speak Now are fantastic albums (and her debut isn't half bad either). My album of the year is probably Coldplay's Ghost Stories (as seen in my avatar), so my pop credentials are strong... 

[ariich]

You can use any criteria you want for deciding on if you personally like the band or not, because opinions, but someone more talented is better than someone less talented.

You still didn't answer my question regarding respect.

My answer is that whether or not you respect a musician is still going to depend on what criteria you choose to measure them by.

Please tell me you're not suggesting that someone would respect a MUSICIAN for something other than talent.  Because respecting a musician for their hair, or the color of their guitar is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard and if someone DID make a statement like that, they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.  Sure, you can respect Skrillex for his bass drops and whatnot, but someone that has MORE RESPECT for Skrillex than Maiden is either uneducated in music, or just hasn't heard Maiden before.  You can like either one better, but one is clearly more talented than the other.

And there we have it - this is exactly the kind of snobbery that this thread was all about in the first place.

I guess this thread has come... full circle.

[Zook]

I'm sure the guys in Maiden can play circles around Skrillex with their instruments, but Skrillex can probably play circles around them with his. It's silly to compare such artists anyway.

Although, knowing Bruce, he probably already mastered dubstep.

[puppyonacid]

I'm pretty certain Skrillex started out as a musician in a rock band. That's what I seem to remember from the documentary I saw where he was collaborating with the (then) surviving members of the doors.

I think Skrillex is a master of his particular art. I don't see how the same could be said for any of the individual musicians in Iron maiden. This is going to sound controversial but I would say he's more dedicated to perfecting his art and craft than Niko Mcbrain is with his.

However, who one respects more, or likes more is totally subjective.

I respect Skrillex and the members of Iron Maiden a lot more than someone who proclaims idiocy on another for respecting any particular musician above others.

There is and always has been this "elitist" attitude among rock fans in general. Prog fans often (but as shown in this thread not always) epitomise this. You try and tell a Led Zep fan that you just don't get their music and that you think there are better bands and you're almost verging on heresy. Chastising someone for suggesting the same about Skrillex and IM falls into the same sort of area of discussion. It's ignorant.

Skrillex (and others like him) regularly get flack for their art and I just don't understand why. Sure, it's not the easiest music to listen to....but then what is? How about Opeth? DT? You think a Cliff Richard fan is going to find either of those two bands easy to listen to?

It is all subjective but to the original post....no I don't think prog fans are always more open minded. Some are very open minded but some are just as close minded as your average Justin Bieber fan.

[KevShmev]

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

I think it's easy to think that prog fans are the most close-minded if you frequent prog-related sites more than any other music-related ones, but my goodness, talk to "regular" people about music some time and the close-mindedness just oozes off of them.  I've lost track of how many girls I've talked to over the years who have little to no interest in anything that isn't modern pop and/or country.

[BlobVanDam]

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

I think it's easy to think that prog fans are the most close-minded if you frequent prog-related sites more than any other music-related ones, but my goodness, talk to "regular" people about music some time and the close-mindedness just oozes off of them.  I've lost track of how many girls I've talked to over the years who have little to no interest in anything that isn't modern pop and/or country.

What do you mean? Regular people usually have very diverse musical tastes. They listen to a bit of everything!

[425]

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

I think it's easy to think that prog fans are the most close-minded if you frequent prog-related sites more than any other music-related ones, but my goodness, talk to "regular" people about music some time and the close-mindedness just oozes off of them.  I've lost track of how many girls I've talked to over the years who have little to no interest in anything that isn't modern pop and/or country.

I think that's fair, and I would say that even "regular" people with fairly diverse music tastes can have odd places in which in they are closed minded. I knew someone once who definitely didn't listen solely to modern pop and country and actually had decent music taste, but had a complete block on any songs longer than, say, 8 minutes. She outright refused to even consider the merit of writing a song much longer than a typical radio single. So while it is certainly valid to note that prog fans have their own forms of closed-mindedness, I think you're right to bring us back to the broader context that, really, almost everyone—basically everyone outside of serious music fans who make a conscious effort to explore a variety of genres—is somewhat musically closed minded.

[Fluffy Lothario]

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

I think it's easy to think that prog fans are the most close-minded if you frequent prog-related sites more than any other music-related ones, but my goodness, talk to "regular" people about music some time and the close-mindedness just oozes off of them.  I've lost track of how many girls I've talked to over the years who have little to no interest in anything that isn't modern pop and/or country.

"You mean this has been around for more than nine months? Why would you listen to it then?"

It's always interesting when you spot yourself being close-minded though. I'm really in folk / singer songwriter mode at the moment, and thus the universe has been pointing me in the direction of Ed Sheeran, but I haven't even brought myself to put on a youtube video, which would take less time than typing this message, because he looks like a knob, and there's a part of me that figures any artist that's that popular just HAS to be bad (and this coming from a guy who loves Coldplay). So there's simultaneously a part of me thinking, "you're a dick, you know that?"

[KevShmev]

What do you mean? Regular people usually have very diverse musical tastes. They listen to a bit of everything!

"I listen to everything," always makes me chuckle. 

So I've definitely broken out of my Prog is God shell, but prog isn't the only genre with close minded fans. In fact, I think thrash and death metal have worse close minded fans than prog.

I think it's easy to think that prog fans are the most close-minded if you frequent prog-related sites more than any other music-related ones, but my goodness, talk to "regular" people about music some time and the close-mindedness just oozes off of them.  I've lost track of how many girls I've talked to over the years who have little to no interest in anything that isn't modern pop and/or country.

I think that's fair, and I would say that even "regular" people with fairly diverse music tastes can have odd places in which in they are closed minded. I knew someone once who definitely didn't listen solely to modern pop and country and actually had decent music taste, but had a complete block on any songs longer than, say, 8 minutes. She outright refused to even consider the merit of writing a song much longer than a typical radio single. So while it is certainly valid to note that prog fans have their own forms of closed-mindedness, I think you're right to bring us back to the broader context that, really, almost everyone—basically everyone outside of serious music fans who make a conscious effort to explore a variety of genres—is somewhat musically closed minded.

For sure.  I sometimes wonder why some would want to rob themselves of something they'd get enjoyment out of, but then I have to remind myself that I went through that spell of close-mindedness as well (in the later 90s), so i was not immune to it.  I am just glad I wised up. 

It's always interesting when you spot yourself being close-minded though. I'm really in folk / singer songwriter mode at the moment, and thus the universe has been pointing me in the direction of Ed Sheeran, but I haven't even brought myself to put on a youtube video, which would take less time than typing this message, because he looks like a knob, and there's a part of me that figures any artist that's that popular just HAS to be bad (and this coming from a guy who loves Coldplay). So there's simultaneously a part of me thinking, "you're a dick, you know that?"

 

[TioJorge]

Preeeeeeetty sure by the time this thread ends it's just gonna be a fuckin' resounding, unanimous...








NOPE.

[Zantera]

The best use of "I listen to everything" always comes from someone listening to Prog AND Metal, or 90% prog with a few bands like Muse thrown into the mix. I do agree the statement as a whole is often far from the truth. I used to throw it around a couple of years ago and it wasn't very true at all, but these days I can say things like "I listen to a little bit but I always make sure to point out that it isn't everything. As many different music styles I listen to, there are still a few genres like Opera for example, that I just don't have much of an interest in.

[ariich]

The best use of "I listen to everything" always comes from someone listening to Prog AND Metal, or 90% prog with a few bands like Muse thrown into the mix.

Well, yes that would be silly, but I can't say I've ever heard it in that context. I believe what Blob was referring to was people who say that but literally only listen to chart pop.

[King Postwhore]

I don't listen to all styles of music but I am very varied indifferent genres and use that term a lot.  As a matter of fact my friends as teen mocked me for listening to Duran Duran and Iron Maiden in the same day.  Now the same guys say, "Duran Duran's Rio album is so damn good" and I laugh.

[hefdaddy42]

Duran Duran's Rio album really is good.

I wouldn't say I listen to everything, but I listen to a lot (of different genres, I mean).  So I must admit it pisses me off to hear people who only listen to pop & country say that.