DT HD Tracks, worth it?

[BlobVanDam]

What grizzly said. The majority of the noticeable increase in quality from the CD release is that the HD Tracks are in their pre-mastered form.

That. If it was the exact same master, but just in HD, you wouldn't hear any difference. The reason the HDTracks version is better is 100% because it's not the same master as what got put on the CD. Even if you take the HDTracks version, and downsample it and burn it back onto a CD, it will retain all of the benefits of that better master.

[wasteland]

All this talk made me dig my HD Tracks from the lifeboat-HardDrive. It really feels way less tiring to my hears than the CD version, where I can hardly stand two songs in a row. 

I'd say it was well worth the price for me!

[rumborak]

I'm actually surprised to never have seen "audiophiles" rant against dithering, since that intentionally adds noise to the final signal.

[Skeever]

I have, you mostly see that on remasters of 70s records. Soooo bad on the Yes remasters.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm actually surprised to never have seen "audiophiles" rant against dithering, since that intentionally adds noise to the final signal.

I don't think audiophiles are knowledgeable enough about technical details to go any further beyond "digital bad".

[King Postwhore]

Leave it to an Autobot to poke fun at old people not liking new technology.

[me7]

Actually, the most vocal fans of analogue audio and vinyl I meet aren't old people, they are young hipsters.

[King Postwhore]

You need to go on music forums were a lot of old music fans are.  Oh they complain.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Sonically it is worth it but it sucks they won't go on my iPhone.

[Grizz]

Just downsample them to 16/44 or 16/48 (if the iPhone supports it) and encode ithem in AAC or AIFF.

[rumborak]

The HD tracks, IMHO, should have been an optional download that comes with the regular CD. I have no problem with creating a car stereo-friendly version, and that even be the main version. It's just the apparent attitude of "yeah, we put 20 layers into our music, but you're not gonna hear the difference anyway because you're a metal fan and your hearing is shot. If you actually care about the music, well, wait a few months and prepare to pay again, and even more." that bugs me.

EDIT: Alternatively, offer the HD tracks + regular CD on release date, (arguably) at a slightly higher price.

[Grizz]

The HDTracks were available on DTXII's release date for a bit more than the CD.

[Skeever]

Yeah, but no one knew they were coming and they weren't announce with preorders. So if you were like me, you'd already gone out and bought or preordered the inferior version without realizing the HQ version was coming.

Anyway, the lesson I learned is just "don't buy". Listen on Spotify or another free streaming service. And then IF YOU REALLY LIKE it, buy it. Or pay for a Spotify subscription so you can listen to it anywhere.

[rumborak]

Sorry yeah, I got the timeline mixed up because of the preordering and the stream that was up for a week. The point still stands, the folks who likely would care about the HD tracks, were the ones forced to buy it all over again.

[KevShmev]

I suspect more than a few of us here might not buy the next CD immediately next time around if word gets out that it has sound issues again AND we think an HD version is coming.  I am not a big fan of downloading stuff, especially by my favorite artists whom I like to support, but if they are gonna pull this again, I may have no choice.  And I don't think it was a conscious decision of the band or anything like that, but if they can't make the normal CD sound as good as possible, then it's their own fault if some of us are forced to get it for free while waiting for the HD version.

[rumborak]

Preordering has become a joke too. Quite a few people here were pissed that their local CD store had the album in the shelves, while they were still waiting for theirs in the mail.

Regarding the sound, remember when the stream was up for a week and everybody was like "don't judge the sound quality by the compressed stream!!". Then the album came out and everybody was like " Oh."

[KevShmev]

I've never gotten the appeal of pre-ordering, especially when it's a CD that I know will be at Best Buy on the Tuesday it comes out (a category which Dream Theater amazingly still falls under).

[hefdaddy42]

I've never gotten the appeal of pre-ordering, especially when it's a CD that I know will be at Best Buy on the Tuesday it comes out (a category which Dream Theater amazingly still falls under).

Same here.  Hell, I live in Mount Airy, NC, and DT is sold at our local Wal-Mart.  No reason to pre-order (unless some cool promotion, like the autographed lithograph I got for pre-ordering SC).

[King Postwhore]

But I can't be bothered going out in the sunlight.  Steven Wilson can go to hell!

[?]

The HD tracks, IMHO, should have been an optional download that comes with the regular CD.

Agreed. When Witherscape released their debut album last year, they included a "full dynamics" version of the album as MP3s in the limited edition. I think DT should do something like that with the next album.

I suspect more than a few of us here might not buy the next CD immediately next time around if word gets out that it has sound issues again AND we think an HD version is coming.  I am not a big fan of downloading stuff, especially by my favorite artists whom I like to support, but if they are gonna pull this again, I may have no choice.  And I don't think it was a conscious decision of the band or anything like that, but if they can't make the normal CD sound as good as possible, then it's their own fault if some of us are forced to get it for free while waiting for the HD version.

Yeah, next time I may wait for an announcement of a HD Tracks version before buying the album.

re: pre-ordering: I only pre-order an album if I know I won't find it at a local store or if there's a bundle that includes a T-shirt or some other extra.

[PetFish]

Use the brickwall for the mp3's for the casual fan.

This statement, and others like it, bothers me.

I'm not a casual fan but I love mp3s.  They sound great in my car and on my iPod.  Encoding the CD tracks myself at 256-320, organizing and tagging them "properly", and putting in the album artwork is fun to do.

The only time I can (maybe) hear a difference is if I can take the time to listen to my (mid-range) home theatre or be able to afford $300 earbuds or a $500 headset.

I really don't enjoy being made to feel inferior cuz I like mp3s and/or I don't have a multi-thousand-dollar audio setup.  Audiophile "elitists" (I'm not saying dparrot is one of these) make me feel pretty stupid about how I listen to music.  It would be similar to people who only drive $100,000 cars telling me how I'm not a "real" driver cuz I'm not doing the same.

[Skeever]

There's no reason why the mp3 can't sound amazing, PetFish.... don't feel bad

[rumborak]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with mp3s as long as they are encoded at 200+ kbps. Frankly, DT 12 is so brickwalled you'd be able to tell if it was encoded in Real Audio. As I mentioned before, people were initially blaming the compressed stream that was up for a week. When the CD came out there was a good amount of consternation.

[Scorpion]

To be fair, there are times when SoundCloud really does sound quite a bit worse than the final product, so I wouldn't blame anyone on being optimistic and thinking that the final product would sound better.

[mirko_metal_88]

No I'll never pay for a digital download.

totally agree

[PetFish]

There's no reason why the mp3 can't sound amazing, PetFish.... don't feel bad

Thanks.  I don't feel bad at all about mp3s, I love them, and listen to them when I don't have time to sit in front of my home theatre, which is 98.333 (repeating, of course) of the time.

It's the audiphiles that trash anything lossy (aka The Lossless Gestapo, haven't used that one in a while) that make me feel bad.  If people can here the difference between an mp3 @ 320 and a .wav on average equipment, great, they have excellent ears, but they never seem to want to be proud of that, they have to tell others who can't hear the difference on average equipment how crappy their ears are and *snort* cuz they don't have uber-ukabaduka sound systems.

I will agree that any mp3 @ 192 or less will not sound very good on average-or-better equipment but to audiophiles mp3=mp3=lossy=garbage, no matter the equipment or listening environment and they always seem to come across as elitist douches.

No disprespect to anyone, not saying anyone specifically, but it's just the general feeling. 

[Grizz]

As someone who likes to screw around with audio I like to have lossless copies, but when I listen to music on my phone or iPod it's usually 256 kbps AAC or 192 kbps MP3 if I haven't reripped. The only decent pair of speakers I own are Shure SE215 IEMs, which I typically wear in high noise environments (behind the drumset).

[darkshade]

Is there a difference between the HD tracks and the Blu-Ray 5.1 surround sound mix?

[Calvin6s]

I always plan to buy the HD tracks version.  Then the CD is released and available for $8.99 or $9.99 at Best Buy or Amazon and I just go get that.

HD tracks only has the Roadrunner releases, so I don't have the urge to get them.  If they had I&W to Octavarium, I'd probably snatch those up.

[seasonsinthesky]

Is there a difference between the HD tracks and the Blu-Ray 5.1 surround sound mix?

HDTracks doesn't offer DT surround sound mixes, so yes, there would be about 4 channels of difference 

[Grizz]

Is there a difference between the HD tracks and the Blu-Ray 5.1 surround sound mix?

Most people seem to think that the HDTracks have the CD mix but with a different, more dynamic master. They're only stereo.
If you're talking about Breaking the Fourth Wall, people were disappointed with those HDTracks.

[Kotowboy]

No I'll never pay for a digital download.

totally agree

I don't mind if it's one song that's not an album for example. . .

Although I do like to buy singles if the album isn't out for a while - but then iI always buy the Special Edition CD.

I almost never buy digital albums from iTunes except when it's a lot cheaper to get it from iTunes and the CD artwork / packaging

is lame - like Sonic Highways for example. I'm not paying £4 extra for a piece of card. . . .

[Thoughtspart3]

I think the HD Tracks are much better.  I couldn't tell the difference from listening to the samples on the website but I could tell the difference once I downloaded them. Are the samples really the same high quality?  I also can tell a difference with higher bit depths and sampling rates.  I have noticed that some people are more sensitive to sound than others so that does play into it.  I have always been picky about sound but my wife could care less. 

I hate to hurt physical CD sales but because of the poor masters I am going to wait for the HD Tracks this time and only purchase that.  It probably won't make that much difference but it might get peoples attention if the number of HD tracks sales go up and other mediums go down if we all did this.  I would hate though for this to be interpreted that I am not interested in a physical CD.  I WANT a physical CD but not one with a compressed master.

[darkshade]

It's so unfortunate that the regular CD is so compressed. I don't think they would ever have released such an album if MP was still in the band.

[Calvin6s]

I hate to hurt physical CD sales

The problem here is HD Tracks should be cheaper than the physical CD.  It didn't go through a mastering process and the distribution/manufacturing costs are infinitely cheaper.

If I knew I could get uncompressed files on an album release date simply by downloading a few files and charging my credit card $8 to $10, I'd do it for every audio purchase.