2014-15 NBA thread v. 2015-16 thread now playing

[Accelerando]

  He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan 

That's blasphemous!

[King Postwhore]

I rarely see him do that.  He has since admitted that The Decision was wrong, so I don't hold that against him.  But heck, given how many still refuse to acknowledge how good he is and pick nits at his game, he probably feels the need for a little self-promotion at times, but on the court, he is one of the most unselfish superstars we have ever seen in sports.  He'd rather score 20 and get 12 assists in a win than score 40 and have no assists.  He loves seeing his teammates do well because it actually makes him happy; guys like Jordan and Bryant were very selfish players who were only okay with their teammates doing well cause it was a means to their end (winning), not because they got any joy out of seeing anyone else do well.  And don't get me wrong, that kind of "me first" selfishness was a big part of why they did so well, but James is just wired differently, and some people still don't get that.  To use the cliche I have heard before, he is more Magic than Michael, and he is BETTER than Magic, but many will never say it because Magic just oozed charisma, so people love the guy.  On the charisma scale, James simply doesn't rate very high.  He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan , but he's not a 10 like Magic.

Kev, I've seen him do it all year with the Cavs.  You're not paying attention!

[Azyiu]

Shaq ain't the brightest bulb.  Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron.  And as I recall, his percentages were terrible.  "Killer instinct" is imaginary.

-J

Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?

[j]

Shaq ain't the brightest bulb.  Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron.  And as I recall, his percentages were terrible.  "Killer instinct" is imaginary.

-J

Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?

Re-read the first part of my post.  Based on my admittedly unreliable recollection, Kobe had no more propensity to try to get to the rim at the end of games than LeBron does.  More than his share of long contested jumpers in those situations, I'd wager more than LeBron.  And his end-of-game accuracy absolutely would be related to this fabled "killer instinct" because if he's getting higher percentage looks by getting to the basket, it should be reflected in his numbers.  That does not appear to be the case.

-J

[KevShmev]

  He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan 

That's blasphemous!

Remember, I am talking on the charisma scale.  The guy is one of the best players ever, but he doesn't exactly ooze charisma.

Kev, I've seen him do it all year with the Cavs.  You're not paying attention!

Sure.

Shaq ain't the brightest bulb.  Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron.  And as I recall, his percentages were terrible.  "Killer instinct" is imaginary.

-J

Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?

No offense, but that is horse shit.  I remember countless games that were tight late when Bryant jacked up a contested jumper and missed, just like James did the other day. 

Back to LeBron, he does have as many playoff buzzer beaters as Michael Jordan.

And let's not forget this happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p3xWG3mkXE  Which James does A LOT in general, in close, tight games at the end, but yeah, let's act like he always launches deep shots because he is afraid to drive to the hoop.

[King Postwhore]

Well though I don't like him personally, it doesn't take away that he is that great of a player.  Hell, this is his 5th year in a row to the finals. 

[KevShmev]

He is playing like a man possessed tonight, but it still might not be enough.  I have to give Blatt some credit for once; the Cavs are playing superb on defense.

[KevShmev]

Games like this make me wonder why I even bother watching.  Some dreadful calls in OT by the refs, that have basically screwed the Cavs badly.  Awful.

[KevShmev]

And yet Cleveland still won.  Wow.  I thought GS was the better team, but I now think that if Love and Irving were healthy, the Cavs would have taken this.  What a shame.

[Syzzle]

If LeBron keeps playing like this and the cav's somehow win the series he might pass 06 D-Wade for the best Finals performance of all time.

[lonestar]

Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck. Gonna be a loooooong series man.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

LeBron is such a beast. The amount he has to do for the Cavaliers to win is unbelievable. I still think the Warriors are winning the series in five or six, but they're going to be five or six tough games.

[Azyiu]

Based on last night, JR Smith could be the key for the Dubs' victory for the rest of the series. He needs to be on the floor as long as possible! 

[KevShmev]

LeBron is such a beast. The amount he has to do for the Cavaliers to win is unbelievable. I still think the Warriors are winning the series in five or six, but they're going to be five or six tough games.

Agreed.  The Warriors look like a team that thinks they can now just show up and win; the Cavs look like they want it really bad.  Given how outmanned the Cavs are, the Warriors might still be right, but Cleveland isn't going down easy.

If LeBron keeps playing like this and the cav's somehow win the series he might pass 06 D-Wade for the best Finals performance of all time.

 

I wouldn't even put that in the conversation for best finals performance ever, especially given the asterisk it gets because of the calls he got at the end of games 4 and 5 (which was basically Stern giving Cuban the middle finger).

Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck.

The Cavs have to get some credit for that, no?  Plus, I forgot the numbers, but Curry's 3-point shooting is way down since that fall against Houston.  Makes you wonder if is really 100% in the head.

[bosk1]

Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck.

The Cavs have to get some credit for that, no? 

I agree.  The answer is no.

[KevShmev]

It's been said already, but it is worth repeating:

The Cavs look like a team that wants the championship bad; the Warriors do not.

[Rattlehead]

The Cavs are killing it right now  I'm not even into the NBA and I'm loving this.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

The Warriors are just embarrassing themselves. Love and Irving are out and the Cavs are just manhandling them. Curry looks nothing like an MVP out there and the whole team looks confused. Game 2 they went what, 8/35 behind the 3 point line? That's desperation right there.

They just look horrible out there. The Cavs actually look like a championship team right now.

[KevShmev]

Great comeback by the Warriors, and some absurd shots by Curry, but the Cavs hang on to win.  This is crazy.  How have they even won two games against this team without Love and Irving??

[bosk1]

How have they even won two games against this team without Love and Irving??

It's baffling.  They aren't even playing well, for the most part.  The Warriors just cannot hit shots.

[Cable]

I cannot support LeBron > Magic at this point, not because of charisma. Magic just had eye popping numbers, and was a more true point. That said, I think LeBron is more well rounded, but his FT% is a bit week. At the end of time, it may be apples to oranges. To early to call for me, as LeBron is still making his legacy.

That said, Kobe is jester in the court of all time greats. Hall of Famer? Sure. Jordan was the best and worst thing for basketball ever; the worst is he produced a ton of Kobe like players who were selfish. I deal with kids for my job jacking up selfish shots all day because Mike did it. Little do they know he won when he embraced his coach and team, and he never jacked up buckets of long range shots like Kobe did. And when he was ripping 37 points a game, it was well over 50% with 80% at the line.

Kobe won when he had at least one other solid player, and failed when he didn't. His D was never like Jordan's, and his shooting percentage is subpar if he wants to be the GOAT. Jordan, although weak from 3, stuck in his comfort zone and shot nearly 50% for his career. Disgusting as a SG, and it probably would have been higher if it wasn't for his last 2 years.

Comparing LeBron to Kobe is a bit apples to oranges too, but I would take LeBron in a second. As others said, I see him just as apt to pass. That doesn't make him not clutch, just trying to get others good shots. He takes ill-advised clutch shots at times, but I don't see any more than Kobe. And to me, clutch can be overrated unless he goes into a shell every fourth quarter.

[Syzzle]

41.5 PPG/12.0 RPG/8.3 APG/1.3 BPG/1.7 SPL

LeBron's averages for the Finals so far

[Azyiu]

The way the Dubs lost Game 2 at home. Or, seemingly being out played for most of Game 1 and 2 (at home, no less), must play a role in their collective minds. I think that kind of explains why they looked so horrible in the first half at the Q. At this point, the 67 regular season wins means nothing! They need to clear all the noise in their heads, and just being themselves again. The Dubs are better than this.

[King Postwhore]

It's been said already, but it is worth repeating:

The Cavs look like a team that wants the championship bad; the Warriors do not.

They sure do.

[Aefenwelg]

This is making me feel better about losing to the Cavs.

[j]

I cannot support LeBron > Magic at this point, not because of charisma. Magic just had eye popping numbers, and was a more true point. That said, I think LeBron is more well rounded, but his FT% is a bit week. At the end of time, it may be apples to oranges. To early to call for me, as LeBron is still making his legacy.

That said, Kobe is jester in the court of all time greats. Hall of Famer? Sure. Jordan was the best and worst thing for basketball ever; the worst is he produced a ton of Kobe like players who were selfish. I deal with kids for my job jacking up selfish shots all day because Mike did it. Little do they know he won when he embraced his coach and team, and he never jacked up buckets of long range shots like Kobe did. And when he was ripping 37 points a game, it was well over 50% with 80% at the line.

Kobe won when he had at least one other solid player, and failed when he didn't. His D was never like Jordan's, and his shooting percentage is subpar if he wants to be the GOAT. Jordan, although weak from 3, stuck in his comfort zone and shot nearly 50% for his career. Disgusting as a SG, and it probably would have been higher if it wasn't for his last 2 years.

Comparing LeBron to Kobe is a bit apples to oranges too, but I would take LeBron in a second. As others said, I see him just as apt to pass. That doesn't make him not clutch, just trying to get others good shots. He takes ill-advised clutch shots at times, but I don't see any more than Kobe. And to me, clutch can be overrated unless he goes into a shell every fourth quarter.

I agree with all of this except the first paragraph.  LeBron > Magic definitely IMO, but even that is kind of apples and oranges.

As for the Finals, to me it's clear at this point that neither of these teams is that good.  The Warriors convinced us all otherwise during the regular season and I'm not sure what it is about them that's being exposed here.  Curry had a pretty good game by the time all was said and done, and the final score wasn't a blowout.  But to the Cavs' credit, they are the only team I've seen that is finally showing some discipline closing out on the perimeter shooters of GS, and maybe that's the difference.

As for the Cavs, that team is not only injury-laden, but they were not a good team to begin with.  LeBron absolutely carries them, and the only fault I can find with the way he's playing his that he's only shooting 40%.  But he should not be able to lift this team over the Warriors we watched dominate over the last several months, even with Dellavedova playing like a madman alongside him.

-J

[King Postwhore]

j, I always wanted to ask you this.  Can you shoot a J?

[Syzzle]

41.5 PPG/12.0 RPG/8.3 APG/1.3 BPG/1.7 SPL

LeBron's averages for the Finals so far

Something to add onto this.

LeBron James has scored, assisted, or created 200 of the Cavaliers' 291 points through the first 3 games of the #NBAFinals. Beyond unreal

[KevShmev]

I don't think LBJ's less than stellar shooting percentage is a big deal for several reasons:

-Just the threat of him constantly shooting keeps constant pressure on the GS defense.  It's like when Randy Moss was in his prime; he could run fly patterns all day, and even when not catching passes, he scared the hell out of defenses and changed how they play.

-They are mucking the game up.  GS loves to play fast, but in many cases, the Cavs dribble the clock down to less than 5 on the shot clock, which has a two-pronged effect on the Warriors: 1) it has slowed the game down, meaning the Cavs are dictating the pace, and 2) when James drives and misses, the Warriors are all in the lane trying to stop James and/or get a rebound, and transitioning to the fast break has proven very difficult. 

[j]

j, I always wanted to ask you this.  Can you shoot a J?

I could in my prime, brother.

I don't think LBJ's less than stellar shooting percentage is a big deal for several reasons:

-Just the threat of him constantly shooting keeps constant pressure on the GS defense.  It's like when Randy Moss was in his prime; he could run fly patterns all day, and even when not catching passes, he scared the hell out of defenses and changed how they play.

-They are mucking the game up.  GS loves to play fast, but in many cases, the Cavs dribble the clock down to less than 5 on the shot clock, which has a two-pronged effect on the Warriors: 1) it has slowed the game down, meaning the Cavs are dictating the pace, and 2) when James drives and misses, the Warriors are all in the lane trying to stop James and/or get a rebound, and transitioning to the fast break has proven very difficult. 

Good points.  With regard to #1 though, the ideal use of that "threat" would be to take what the defense gives you, and when they collapse or help, to find your open teammate(s).  LeBron largely does a good job of this already, and when he does force it, he's often successful.  40% isn't great, but I watched all of game 3, and to my delight he was going to the hole relentlessly, which is exactly the LeBron he needs to be for this team to go all the way.  With the kind of looks he was getting consistently, I would forgive almost any shooting percentage over one game.

To your second point, I'd only argue that attempts very late in the shot clock often turn out to be lower-percentage looks.  But there's no question that the Cavs are controlling the pace with their deliberate halfcourt stuff.

-J

[King Postwhore]

j, same here.

Kev, I love that LeBron is killing it in all areas.  Rebounding on both glasses, great D and it's infectious with his teammates.  They are hustling everywhere on the floor.

It seems that they punched the big bully in the mouth and the bullies are now stunned and don't know what to do.

[Jamesman42]

As for the Finals, to me it's clear at this point that neither of these teams is that good.  The Warriors convinced us all otherwise during the regular season and I'm not sure what it is about them that's being exposed here.  Curry had a pretty good game by the time all was said and done, and the final score wasn't a blowout.

I think it's more that this GSW team is new to the big stage. Curry looks scared at times. I mean, can you blame him? Think about the Thunder when they went against the Heat a few years ago. They looked lost. Many of Miami's guys had been on that level before.

Lebron has been on that level many times now. That's a significant advantage, I believe. I really hope Curry snaps out of it and shuts the Cavs down, I believe they are still that amazing regular season team; they just need to adjust to the glaring spotlight that is the Finals.

[bosk1]

They also, unfortunately, developed some bad habits in a regular season that, by and large, was far too easy for them.  Repeatedly, they were able to get into situations where they could passively play through a game without worrying too much about what was going to happen.  If they got down or didn't jump out to a big enough lead, they could just lock it down in the 4th quarter and come up with the win, most of the time.  That kind of approach is simply not going to work against a LeBron-led team.  You can't count on just keeping it close and being able to clamp down at the last minute for the win.  You have to play a complete game.  Because if it is close in the end, it is just as likely that LeBron and teammates will do just enough to prevent the comeback, which is what happened in games 2 and 3.  They were within a basket of winning each of those games.  But you can't count on getting past LeBron in those situations without more. 

[Jamesman42]

Interesting. I will admit that due to a very busy year, I didn't watch a single regular season game.

[Azyiu]

They also, unfortunately, developed some bad habits in a regular season that, by and large, was far too easy for them.  Repeatedly, they were able to get into situations where they could passively play through a game without worrying too much about what was going to happen.  If they got down or didn't jump out to a big enough lead, they could just lock it down in the 4th quarter and come up with the win, most of the time.  That kind of approach is simply not going to work against a LeBron-led team.  You can't count on just keeping it close and being able to clamp down at the last minute for the win.  You have to play a complete game.  Because if it is close in the end, it is just as likely that LeBron and teammates will do just enough to prevent the comeback, which is what happened in games 2 and 3.  They were within a basket of winning each of those games.  But you can't count on getting past LeBron in those situations without more.

Good point. So do you think Curry is a great player with bad habit (possibly developed since Mark Jackson was HC), or is Kerr a "bad" coach for not fixing it soon enough?