Author Topic: Mike Portnoy  (Read 193423 times)

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #910 on: March 11, 2015, 08:15:36 AM »
Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
No.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #911 on: March 11, 2015, 08:16:37 AM »
I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
Well, yes and no. You could argue that all of this controversy gets his name known and helps pick up a bigger number of "soft fans". And in terms of following him on facebook, the majority of those thousands and thousands of people who follow him won't even really pay attention to this sort of thing, unless they are specifically interesting in all the drama. Most of the time if I see a post like that on facebook I think "ok, whatever" and move on. It's only really the "hard fans" or those who know about MP's drama that would usually bother to look at the comments and see what a shitstorm it was.

To my understanding of how FB works, a post like that, which spurred a ton of response, gets pushed up by their algorithm to appear in a lot of people's daily feed (whereas a regular TweetSecret post likely wouldn't appear). So, I think a lot of people will have seen that particular post.
Heh, just checked, it's deleted now.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #912 on: March 11, 2015, 09:10:15 AM »
[long post]

Quality post.  There are a few things in it that I don't particularly agree with, but good nonetheless.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #913 on: March 11, 2015, 10:09:43 AM »
Ugh, I always quote instead of modify...... :facepalm:

I hate when I go to reply in a thread and for some reason the forum starts a brand new thread :|

Offline ariich

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #914 on: March 11, 2015, 10:32:04 AM »
I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
Well, yes and no. You could argue that all of this controversy gets his name known and helps pick up a bigger number of "soft fans". And in terms of following him on facebook, the majority of those thousands and thousands of people who follow him won't even really pay attention to this sort of thing, unless they are specifically interesting in all the drama. Most of the time if I see a post like that on facebook I think "ok, whatever" and move on. It's only really the "hard fans" or those who know about MP's drama that would usually bother to look at the comments and see what a shitstorm it was.

To my understanding of how FB works, a post like that, which spurred a ton of response, gets pushed up by their algorithm to appear in a lot of people's daily feed (whereas a regular TweetSecret post likely wouldn't appear). So, I think a lot of people will have seen that particular post.
Heh, just checked, it's deleted now.
My point was that most people won't have seen the backlash which was all in the comments. I'm not doubting that the post will have appeared in their news feed, I just think that most "soft fans" would glance over it because on its own it doesn't look that controversial.

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Online Zydar

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #915 on: March 13, 2015, 01:31:46 AM »
Zydar is my new hero.  I just laughed so hard I nearly shat.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #916 on: March 13, 2015, 01:52:35 AM »

Offline YtseJamittaja

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #917 on: March 13, 2015, 02:21:57 AM »
I'm pretty sure MP has to have his fingers on it. A birthday present for his son. Maybe it's Ytsejam records?  :biggrin:
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Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #918 on: March 13, 2015, 03:57:05 AM »
Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.

If one of my kids had aspirations at a music career and were dedicated (which I'm sure MPs son is - he has a great role model), you can be damn sure I would not be ok with them signing record deals and touring at 16.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #919 on: March 13, 2015, 03:59:53 AM »
Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.

If one of my kids had aspirations at a music career and were dedicated (which I'm sure MPs son is - he has a great role model), you can be damn sure I would not be ok with them signing record deals and touring at 16.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #920 on: March 13, 2015, 05:54:55 AM »
Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.

No doubt about the nepotism   .... but ..... so what?  It just means he cares about his son.  And in the music business, nepotism really doesn't cause any harm I can think of. 

Nepotism in Hollywood (which is rampant) can give us some really awful actor's kids ruining what could have been good movies.  And the actor is so big that Hollywood will keep putting that kid in movies to mess up so they can keep the big fish happy.

Nepotism in the workplace (far less rampant) can give us some horrible people in positions that hurt so many people.

But in music, you create your own band, produce your own album and no matter how much daddy got you there, you will have to win over the fanbase on your own.  Some may give them a chance that they wouldn't have otherwise, but they still have to like it to buy the 2nd album.  And if they suck and keep making more albums, you can just ignore it.  They are only screwing up their own albums.

And of course on the flipside, nepotism can lead to really great results because the kid was born into and soaked it all up when they were at the super sponge age.

Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #921 on: March 13, 2015, 06:46:12 AM »
I agree with the above. If Max ends up making some albums that people really like then great, I'm glad his dad helped him out. If it never really goes anywhere and Max is stuck living in MP's shadow (which is the more likely outcome), then that's fine too. He's lucky he had the resource to be in a touring band at such a young age. At the very least it must've been a cool experience.

I understand that it seems kind of unfair that Max gets a free boost because he has a famous parent, but remember he'll have challenges of his own because of that. Chances are he'll end up being best known as Mike Portnoy's son, which I can't imagine being ideal. And personally speaking I think it'd be more beneficial to let the kid build his career from the ground up and experience the challenges of the industry, but who am I to judge?
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Offline bobs23

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #922 on: March 13, 2015, 09:05:31 AM »
You can call nepotism all you want. Maybe MP had something to do with it, maybe not. In the end it will be Next to None that has to prove themselves to the public. But I can say that they are indeed talented kids. With my kid I used all the influence I had to get her what she wanted, in the end she still had to prove she has the goods. That will be the same for Max. If you are a parent, I can't believe that you wouldn't do the same. If you say no, you're lying.

Offline ariich

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #923 on: March 13, 2015, 10:43:18 AM »
Agree with everything Calvin, Mosh and Bob just said.

I understand that it seems kind of unfair that Max gets a free boost because he has a famous parent, but remember he'll have challenges of his own because of that. Chances are he'll end up being best known as Mike Portnoy's son, which I can't imagine being ideal. And personally speaking I think it'd be more beneficial to let the kid build his career from the ground up and experience the challenges of the industry, but who am I to judge?
This in particular is so true. While it no doubt can give you the opportunity to show your stuff, you need to actually have the ability. And because a lot of people have that default position of "they're just relying on their parent's success", it can actually it harder to prove themselves rather than easier.

Rhianna Pratchett (excellent writer, primarily of video games such as Mirror's Edge and the Tomb Raider reboots, who also happens to be the daughter of Terry Pratchett) has spoken about this a lot. She's always faced cyncism from people who claim that she's only successful because of her father (RIP).

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #924 on: March 13, 2015, 12:08:07 PM »
I have no qualms with MP pulling the strings to make this happen (and you can be sure he did, Next To None would be nowhere without him), I think my criticism would be more from a parenting/artist development kind of angle. I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #925 on: March 13, 2015, 01:07:21 PM »
I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.

Are you afraid it would make him a prima donna?

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #926 on: March 13, 2015, 01:12:21 PM »
I understand the reasoning behind the concern about a 16-year-old having a record contract. But at the same time, I think his father, the professional musician, has a much better understanding of the psychological effects of touring than any of us do. So I would be inclined to not really question his judgement in this instance.

Edit: He also knows his own son far better than any of us do, so there's that as well.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #927 on: March 13, 2015, 01:18:06 PM »
I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.

Are you afraid it would make him a prima donna?

No, not in that sense. More like, a lot of an artist's uniqueness comes from sitting alone in your room with your instrument and figuring out stuff. Right now, there's just no other way, Max will be a carbon copy of Mike's drumming. That's just what kids do, emulate their parents. I think if he now gets pushed into the circus of record contract etc., he'll never go through that process of "becoming your own".

If that makes sense to anyone.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #928 on: March 13, 2015, 01:42:22 PM »
It makes perfect sense. But I wouldn't worry about it. I think what is important to these young artists is getting an opportunity, some exposure. That's probably a valid trade off to sitting in his room developing his craft. I'd bet he's probably pretty developed for his age anyway.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #929 on: March 13, 2015, 01:47:43 PM »
Rumbo, you should read about Simon Collins.  Phil Collins' son.  He is a drummer and lead singer as well for a band called "Sound Of Contact".  A nice comparison between famous dad and son in the same field.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #930 on: March 13, 2015, 01:53:19 PM »
More like, a lot of an artist's uniqueness comes from sitting alone in your room with your instrument and figuring out stuff.

I think I developed the fastest when playing and writing with other people.  More of a combination of collaboration and alone time.  I did work out some things in solitary where I could just play simply for the sake of trying to push the envelope of my phrasing (which meant a ton of bad notes).  And I would bring totally completed songs to the band (drums, bass, keys, guitar, melodies), but that was way less fun and expanding that bouncing ideas of one another.

So it could actually help him out a bit.  From a parental view, the only thing I'd truly worry about is the Twitter World tearing him to shreds before he is truly ready for that.  I know when people responded positively to what I was doing, it would make me write more.  When they cut it down, it would be harder to progress.  So multiply that by a million when it comes to TwitterBook.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #931 on: March 13, 2015, 02:06:50 PM »
This is no different than a rich kid getting into a prestigious school like Harvard.  Just because the wheels were greased doesn't mean there isn't some innate talent there.  Honestly, their biggest challenge will probably be the same as it is for lots of people - songwriting.  Lots of people can play great, but unless you are an instrumental band, you have to have some substance, and substance is one of those things that come with age and life experience.  From a strictly musical standpoint, I would be afraid that if things don't go as well as Max would like after an album or two he moves on too quickly, like those HS kids who used to apply for the NBA draft only to find that they really needed the experience and polish college basketball would have provided.
     

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #932 on: March 13, 2015, 02:10:26 PM »
You can call nepotism all you want. Maybe MP had something to do with it, maybe not. In the end it will be Next to None that has to prove themselves to the public. But I can say that they are indeed talented kids. With my kid I used all the influence I had to get her what she wanted, in the end she still had to prove she has the goods. That will be the same for Max. If you are a parent, I can't believe that you wouldn't do the same. If you say no, you're lying.

This.

If people here were in MP's shoes and you had the chance to give your child a boost in the music business, you would tell him, "sorry sport, but I don't believe in nepotism?"   Like people have mentioned above, they still have to prove themselves.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #933 on: March 13, 2015, 02:52:56 PM »
Theres not just nepotism everywhere but also cronyism.  I have worked with so many unqualified people who simply knew some people and now make everyone elses job harder because they sometimes go drink with the boss. 

Thats why when people say that in this country you have to work hard to get somewhere I always tell that its bullshit.  Sure it is a piece of the puzzle but sometimes it is a very small piece.  Other times it is a very big one. 

With all that said, there are a ton of great actors and musicians who got their start because their parents were in the industry.  The shitty ones will be forgotten.  No reason to complain about nepotism and cronyism especially if the people have the chops to prove it which they really only do about 50% of the time.  From what I've seen, Next to None do for the most part.  The guitarist didn't impress me.  I don't like the vocals but that dude is talented and great at keyboards.  Max is obviously good. 

As far as the wisdom of letting them sign and tour when they are 16.... :-\

Offline TAC

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #934 on: March 13, 2015, 03:07:07 PM »
So I was just checking out some Next To None vids on Youtube. They seem like a decent enough kid band, and Max is pretty damned good. But that vocalist? Has his voice even changed yet??
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #935 on: March 13, 2015, 04:10:30 PM »
Theres not just nepotism everywhere but also cronyism.  I have worked with so many unqualified people who simply knew some people and now make everyone elses job harder because they sometimes go drink with the boss. 

Thats why when people say that in this country you have to work hard to get somewhere I always tell that its bullshit.  Sure it is a piece of the puzzle but sometimes it is a very small piece.  Other times it is a very big one. 

With all that said, there are a ton of great actors and musicians who got their start because their parents were in the industry.  The shitty ones will be forgotten.  No reason to complain about nepotism and cronyism especially if the people have the chops to prove it which they really only do about 50% of the time.  From what I've seen, Next to None do for the most part.  The guitarist didn't impress me.  I don't like the vocals but that dude is talented and great at keyboards.  Max is obviously good. 

As far as the wisdom of letting them sign and tour when they are 16.... :-\

This is a great post. Unfortunately nepotism, cronyism, and who you know determine a lot in life.

That said, only the market will determine the success of Next to None. My opinion of them is that they're "good for kids", but really I should add "good for kids with really rich parents." I wish I had all their toys when me and my friends were playing in high school bands. But there are plenty of young bands with much less doing much more. Next to None have not impressed me at all and nothing MP does can change that. He can provide them some publicity and maybe pull a few strings, but he can't make the interesting.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #936 on: March 13, 2015, 04:56:05 PM »
Max is probably making his father's recent realization, that a drummer is only as good as the songs he drums in.
That said, I'm not sure Mike ever made that realization.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #937 on: March 13, 2015, 07:03:05 PM »
Getting off topic a bit, but regarding cronyism...

I kind of get it.   It's not just about "drinking with the boss".   It's about working with people you get along with.   I've been on *both* sides of this equation, and I try to just not take it personally.    I get that it can be frustrating, when someone is totally unqualified, but it's usually not that black and white.   When it gets right down to it, would you rather work with someone who's 100% qualified to do the job, but he's a jerk and makes your daily job more taxing...or would you make the sacrifice to work with someone who does an adequate job and makes the entire work day a joy.   
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #938 on: March 13, 2015, 07:51:41 PM »
Getting off topic a bit, but regarding cronyism...

I kind of get it.   It's not just about "drinking with the boss".   It's about working with people you get along with.   I've been on *both* sides of this equation, and I try to just not take it personally.    I get that it can be frustrating, when someone is totally unqualified, but it's usually not that black and white.   When it gets right down to it, would you rather work with someone who's 100% qualified to do the job, but he's a jerk and makes your daily job more taxing...or would you make the sacrifice to work with someone who does an adequate job and makes the entire work day a joy.

Good post, but dude: one space after a period. Not two. Certainly 4  :lol

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #939 on: March 13, 2015, 08:24:00 PM »
Actually, jammindude's use of space after periods makes the whole thing that much easier to read.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #940 on: March 13, 2015, 08:35:58 PM »
Actually, jammindude's use of space after periods makes the whole thing that much easier to read.

Everyone is different.  I've received compliments and criticisms.  Sometimes I even add paragraphs where they are not technically necessary.


Like this.


I don't know why, but to me standard spacing feels extremely claustrophobic.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #941 on: March 13, 2015, 08:50:13 PM »
Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces

I remember that much from typing class.  With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space.  But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing.  You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers.  Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking.  Of course not.

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Offline Skeever

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #942 on: March 13, 2015, 09:00:52 PM »
Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces

I remember that much from typing class.  With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space.  But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing.  You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers.  Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking.  Of course not.

Don't make me go into a meltdown on Facebook over this  :-*
It's one space for all of those in the computer age and it's not even debatable. I haven't seen a recent style manual that says 2.

That said, I won't make a deal about two spaces if I see it. I notice it, but it doesn't really matter to me if someone really wants to use two for some reasons.

If you need more than 2 spaces, though, I don't know what to say. I mean this in the most polite way possible, but perhaps you should get an eye exam.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #944 on: March 13, 2015, 09:20:37 PM »
Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces

I remember that much from typing class.  With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space.  But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing.  You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers.  Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking.  Of course not.

Don't make me go into a meltdown on Facebook over this  :-*
It's one space for all of those in the computer age and it's not even debatable. I haven't seen a recent style manual that says 2.

Which is what I said?