Author Topic: Mike Portnoy  (Read 193446 times)

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #420 on: August 17, 2014, 12:23:49 PM »
Both are Uber controlling so I agree.  I still wonder how the dynamics work with FC.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #421 on: August 17, 2014, 02:43:56 PM »
How can you say that when Mike is able to play many styles of Prog.  That makes no sense.
Late to this, but exactly what Blob says. I don't think Mike is incapable, I just don't think the two would mesh as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but SW seems to go for a more laid back and restrained approach to his music. He's big on tension and release. Something Gavin Harrison excels at. MP has a much more direct and in your face approach. I can't imagine his drumming on a Porcupine Tree record. I like his style a lot, I just don't imagine it blending well with SW's.

And yea, not to mention the almost guaranteed personality clash that would happen.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #422 on: August 17, 2014, 02:48:45 PM »
Again.  I agree with you.  I don't think it would happen but like i said strange pairings have happened that's worked for Mike.  I do think like I and others have said, to headstrong like Steven and Mike my not work well together.  I still think it would be cool to hear.


But Steven at a different point in his music and I bet it will never happen.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #423 on: August 17, 2014, 02:51:23 PM »
MP, Chuck Schuldiner, Jeff Loomis, and Sean Malone would've made a cool lineup.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #424 on: August 17, 2014, 03:10:47 PM »
Again.  I agree with you.  I don't think it would happen but like i said strange pairings have happened that's worked for Mike.  I do think like I and others have said, to headstrong like Steven and Mike my not work well together.  I still think it would be cool to hear.


But Steven at a different point in his music and I bet it will never happen.
Oh yea, I would've loved to see a Wilson/Portnoy at least attempted. Wilson has expressed a love for more extreme metal and I wonder if MP's style would bring out heavier songwriting from him, or a more reserved style of drumming from MP.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #425 on: August 17, 2014, 03:33:16 PM »
MP doesn't play extreme metal though either. His blast beats he couldn't play live and had to simplify it.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #426 on: August 17, 2014, 03:56:57 PM »
I meant more with his heavier approach to drums in general. He doesn't do extreme metal but he does play a much heavier style than Steven Wilson.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #427 on: August 17, 2014, 06:13:57 PM »
That's true. Frankly though, he can get all that from Marco, and more, without the personality. If there's one thing that was made clear during the A7X thing and the split, you don't just get MP on drums; there's a certain amount of drama you have to buy into as well.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 06:35:01 PM by rumborak »
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #428 on: August 17, 2014, 08:16:19 PM »
I get the feeling Marco isn't there as a creative force though, and is more or less there to play what SW wants. So the capability is there, but it's not being utilized. If SW was to do a project with MP where both members were giving input, MP could possibly bring that out of him.

I don't think A7X is a fair example. Apparently MP wasn't completely sure what the terms of his tenure in that band were, which is his own fault, but that's where the drama seems to come from. Take Adrenaline Mob for example, that was a very clean split with no public drama involved. If I was SW, I'd be more concerned about having to compromise a certain level of creative control.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:05:07 PM by Mosh »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #429 on: August 17, 2014, 09:03:49 PM »
I get the feeling Marco isn't there as a creative force though, and is more or less there to play what SW wants. So the capability is there, but it's not being utilize. If SW was to do a project with MP where both members were giving input, MP could possibly bring that out of him.
 

Huh?  I don't think there is anything that Portnoy could bring out of Wilson that he doesn't bring to the table already.  Considering what a master songwriter Wilson is, I think only a somewhat-equally creative mind could do such a thing, and Mike Portnoy is simply not that guy. 

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #430 on: August 17, 2014, 09:26:14 PM »
That's short-sighted. It'd be more accurate to say that an actual clone of SW couldn't bring anything more out of him. Even someone with no musical experience whatsoever can bring things out of anyone since they'll have traveled a different musical path and have different influences and preferences. It's not as simple as "You can't be influenced by a 'lesser' creative talent."
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #431 on: August 17, 2014, 09:28:37 PM »
Right. Steven Wilson may be a great songwriter/musician/whatever but to say he can't be influenced by another creative force is ridiculous.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #432 on: August 17, 2014, 09:44:00 PM »
Okay, but is Mike Portnoy really a creative force?

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #433 on: August 17, 2014, 09:47:20 PM »
Dude. Semantics. He can influence him by doing something as simple as suggesting trying out some native Japanese koto music or anything else that has yet to have appeared in any of SW's previous works.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #434 on: August 17, 2014, 10:10:01 PM »
Okay, but is Mike Portnoy really a creative force?
Do you honestly think that if the two were to collaborate, MP would just sit there and simply provide a beat to SW's music without giving any input at all? Come on, it's well known at this point that MP is always going to want to give input and is always going to have his own vision of what a song should be like. Listen to the last DT albums he was on; his stamp is all over those two albums.

He might not be a songwriter in the true sense of the word, but it's obvious when listening to a lot of albums featuring MP that he's contributing creatively. For better or for worse.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #435 on: August 17, 2014, 11:15:48 PM »
Okay, but regarding this:

Quote
it's well known at this point that MP is always going to want to give input and is always going to have his own vision of what a song should be like. Listen to the last DT albums he was on; his stamp is all over those two albums.

I think it goes back to Wilson probably not wanting Portnoy's stamp on any of his music, otherwise he probably would have worked with him by now.  I mean, they have known each other a little bit since PT opened for DT back in the early 2000s, and both guys always have tons of projects going on. 

Again though, I think Portnoy's creativity comes across in arrangements and conceptual ideas, not actual songwriting.  In other words, give him the music and the songs and he'll assemble them in a nice fashion more often than not, but don't ask him to write a lot of the actual melodies.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #436 on: August 17, 2014, 11:28:25 PM »
Right, well whether or not SW actually wants MP's stamp is another matter altogether.  :lol

And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song  in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #437 on: August 17, 2014, 11:51:01 PM »
I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #438 on: August 17, 2014, 11:55:20 PM »


And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song  in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.

Agreed, but that part of the process is like the guy who arranges how a plate of food looks at a restaurant.  Sure, it's an important part of the process, presentation and all, but the chef who cooked the food ultimately is far more important.  And if you haven't guessed, Wilson is the chef and Portnoy is the plate arranger.  :lol :lol

I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).

Agreed. 

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #439 on: August 17, 2014, 11:59:24 PM »
I can just picture Mike and Steven in a room together... Steven deep in thought noodling on something (like rumby said)... Mike peering over his shoulder to give some input and Steven just saying "Fuck Off."



Very similar to "Not Freebird" (some of you know what I'm talking about)
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #440 on: August 18, 2014, 12:09:05 AM »


And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song  in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.

Agreed, but that part of the process is like the guy who arranges how a plate of food looks at a restaurant.  Sure, it's an important part of the process, presentation and all, but the chef who cooked the food ultimately is far more important.  And if you haven't guessed, Wilson is the chef and Portnoy is the plate arranger.  :lol :lol
Well if you don't have a guy to set out plates, how are people gonna eat? The chef is much to busy preparing the meal! :p

it also depends on who the writer is and how much of an influence the arranger/creative direction/etc guy has. For example, DT were obviously okay with MP having a huge influence on the process and MP has a very dominating personality that makes it easy for him to get his way. SW doesn't strike me as the sort of person who is going to give up control that easily. I imagine this (more than anything else) is the main reason he hasn't reached out to MP to start a collaboration. Not to mention SW comes off as a very quiet reserved person and MP is the polar opposite of that. There's a decent chance that he's not even comfortable being in a work space with him.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #441 on: August 18, 2014, 12:11:07 AM »
Very similar to "Not Freebird" (some of you know what I'm talking about)

?????
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #442 on: August 18, 2014, 10:17:22 AM »
On one of the Porcupine Tree live dvds... Steven begins to introduce a song and someone yells "FREEBIRD!". Steven, in his englishness, responds with a snappy annoyed "NOT Freebird".



yeeaaaa
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #443 on: August 18, 2014, 10:21:38 AM »
Yeah, that happens right before Trains on Arriving Somewhere.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #444 on: August 18, 2014, 01:04:05 PM »
I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).

Interesting take, and probably not inaccurate.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #445 on: August 18, 2014, 06:42:37 PM »
Both are Uber controlling so I agree.  I still wonder how the dynamics work with FC.

I think MP became controlling of DT over time.  As Kevin Moore left, there was a void, and he started to assert himself more.  James, being in Canada, and not playing instruments, got pushed to the back, and JM became more passive.  Tt.  hat left John Petrucci and later Jordan Rudess with Jordan being more go with the flow type of thing.  So it left JP and MP to duke it ou

When it comes to a band with a bunch of established musicians, I think MP is happy to take the backseat more.  Still exerting an influence but doesn't push his luck. 

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #446 on: August 18, 2014, 06:59:38 PM »
I imagine he works better in projects like FC because of Neal Morse. There seems to be a mutual respect there and a dynamic that works much better than any other MP project, DT included. I think MP is more willing to let Morse do whatever he wants as far as writing/direction goes and Morse is fine letting MP arrange the music and write setlists and just more organizational things in general. So I imagine that carries over to FC pretty well.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #447 on: August 18, 2014, 07:24:17 PM »
I imagine he works better in projects like FC because of Neal Morse. There seems to be a mutual respect there and a dynamic that works much better than any other MP project, DT included. I think MP is more willing to let Morse do whatever he wants as far as writing/direction goes and Morse is fine letting MP arrange the music and write setlists and just more organizational things in general. So I imagine that carries over to FC pretty well.

Do we know that that is MP's role with Neal Morse?  I think that stuff is pretty equally divided.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #448 on: August 18, 2014, 07:36:25 PM »
That's what I'm saying. Mike's place in a Neal Morse band seems to be pretty clear.  On the Kaleidoscope doc it looked like MP pretty much put together the structure of the title epic himself, the other guys seemed totally fine with whatever he decided. But when you watch them jamming/writing, it's really Morse directing everything and Portnoy seems to go with whatever Morse wants while throwing in his two cents here and there like the rest of the guys do.
He may have overstretched his role in other projects (especially DT), but I don't notice that with Morse related things.

And it's all speculation anyway; based on documentaries, interviews, and the music itself.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #449 on: August 19, 2014, 03:12:38 PM »
That's what I'm saying. Mike's place in a Neal Morse band seems to be pretty clear.  On the Kaleidoscope doc it looked like MP pretty much put together the structure of the title epic himself, the other guys seemed totally fine with whatever he decided. But when you watch them jamming/writing, it's really Morse directing everything and Portnoy seems to go with whatever Morse wants while throwing in his two cents here and there like the rest of the guys do.
He may have overstretched his role in other projects (especially DT), but I don't notice that with Morse related things.

And it's all speculation anyway; based on documentaries, interviews, and the music itself.

Ah, I gotcha.  Admittedly, I haven't seen much Neal Morse stuff but that was the impression I got. 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #450 on: August 20, 2014, 10:21:09 AM »
BTW, in terms of collaboration, I always thought it was somewhat telling that both Wilson and Akerfeldt have collaborated on OSI albums, but they yet have to do something with MP.
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #451 on: August 20, 2014, 10:29:43 AM »
To be fair, Akerfeldt worked with OSI after Portnoy left. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Also, how much interaction is there between OSI and their guest musicians? I know Mikael recorded his vocals from home and sent his parts by email, I wonder if SW did the same thing?
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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #452 on: August 20, 2014, 10:34:27 AM »
I think one major fundamental difference between Wilson and Portnoy is:

Portnoy looks at working with other musicians as crossing them off his bucket list of who he wants to play with.  Kind of like, "I want to work with this guy or that guy because I haven't yet, and whatever music comes out of it, cool." 

Wilson looks at working with other musicians as finding which guys best fit whatever project he is working on at that moment.  Kind of like, "Okay, who is best suited to fit this project?"

Granted, there are exceptions, like Storm Corrosion specifically being a Wilson/Akerfeldt project where they went in having no idea what kind of music they'd come up with, but overall, I think it's usually the opposite with Wilson. 

Neither approach is right or wrong, or better or worse, but it just shows the difference in how they approach projects, their completely different personalities notwithstanding.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #453 on: August 20, 2014, 10:35:52 AM »
BTW, in terms of collaboration, I always thought it was somewhat telling that both Wilson and Akerfeldt have collaborated on OSI albums, but they yet have to do something with MP.
Actually MP played on the first OSI album, which includes the song SW sang on, but that's got to be the only time those two have performed on a song together.
Also, how much interaction is there between OSI and their guest musicians? I know Mikael recorded his vocals from home and sent his parts by email, I wonder if SW did the same thing?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Steven did it that way too. After all, he's a skilled engineer, and the video material from the debut sessions only shows Kevin, Jim and MP.

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Re: Mike Portnoy
« Reply #454 on: August 20, 2014, 11:10:36 AM »
Woah, I had no idea there was video of recording sessions!
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