Pink Floyd Discography thread v. 'On An Island, end V1'

[The Curious Orange]

It's not without its flaws. Too many of the songs don't work, the concept is often confusing (worms?), it lacks the splendor we'd come to expect from PF, and worst of all the finale, which should be the big cresendo to the album, is unbelievably weak.

To really appreciate it, you have to understand the musical climate of the time. Rock was dead. Punk and Disco were everywhere. This was a time of "adapt or die" for the big 70s rock bands. There's nods towards contemporary musical trends to keep the suits at EMI happy, but beyond that, Waters just didn't care. Which is odd for the man who, not that many years later, would inflict Radio KAOS on the world...

Whichever way you look at it, The Wall is a towering achievement. It may not be as accessable as Dark Side, or as beautiful as WYWH, but for what it is, it's unsurpassed. There had never been anything quite like it before (Building a wall between the band and the audience? The promoters must have thought them mad), and I doubt there ever will be again. Only The Who's Tommy comes close.

I get something new out of this album every time I listen to it. Every line of the lyrics seems to work on so many levels. Watching Waters perform this at Wembley last year was just magical (I even went to Berlin in 1990, but that's another story).

It may not be Floyd's best album, but it is their most impressive achivement.

[hefdaddy42]

As for The Wall, it is the album that not only got me into Pink Floyd, but was the kickstart of my journey into becoming a full-fledged diehard music fan, an obsession which still exists today. 

This exactly, for me as well!  This was the first album that hit me upside the head and showed me how awesome music CAN be.  It doesn't rank first for me anymore (although it did for a long, long time), but this album will always have a cold place in my heart.

A cold, lonely, depressed place.

[Progmetty]

The Wall is my second favorite PF album after Animals.
The one thing I remember about The Wall is that when I was a kid I used to sneak into my dad's cassette tapes collection which he frowned upon since he put that collection together in the 70's when it was still pretty hard to find foreign tapes in the market so my grandpa who worked in Sweden used to send him these tapes and that made them more dear to him but I digress. The only music I was listening to and made any sense to me as a kid in the early 90's is Micheal Jackson, I snuck The Wall out of my dad's collection and before the first side was over I stopped listening, the funny part is that I hated it cause I found it too incoherent "Where are the songs?! where do they start and end?" I didn't know the terminology back then but I was looking for verses and choruses, familiar song structure and I was turned off/weirded out when I couldn't find it, in retrospect I think I didn't like that I didn't understand how this music was to be enjoyed in that format.
I saw Roger Waters perform The Wall in Austin and it was a blast.
I hope they release the movie on BluRay, even the DVD version of this movie is shitty quality IMO.

[Ben_Jamin]

Ahh, The Wall, my introduction was from the movie, I loved it when I was 10. The animation sequences are what I liked. I was disappointed whem I bought the album that Empty Spaces wasn't What Shall We Do Now?

[Konrad]

The Trial makes me feel so... i don't know, but its great.
Great album

[GentlemanofDread]

Ahh, The Wall, my introduction was from the movie, I loved it when I was 10. The animation sequences are what I liked. I was disappointed whem I bought the album that Empty Spaces wasn't What Shall We Do Now?

Because perhaps you should listen to the live album (WHICH IS BEING COVERED NOW).

So naturally, Pink Floyd toured The Wall. You know, it was only natural. The tour was relatively small compared to previous tours for a major release, with only 31 shows in total. You want to know why this was? The costs of the tour were estimated to have reached US$ 1.5 million even before the first performance. Or as I stated to someone when researching this "The bankrupt band went from being in money trouble to safe to being right back into money trouble."

Nick Mason sums it up quite neatly, "The problem, really, with the show is that it wasn't a touring show, so it had to be set up, and left, and taken down again. There were a lot of light operators and stage operators and wall builders. Because of the amount of stuff that went up and down, floated across, did this, did that, there were a lot of operators, rather than just people putting stuff up. And, of course we had lots of semis, as I believe you call them, because of the special lighting pods that we used which needed, each one needs a trailer unit to hold it. And the special stage, because of the way the stage was actually used, there was a sort of structural bracing piece for the building of the wall. So it was all special equipment, I mean it was absurdly expensive. It's not something other people will do, generally, because it's just so expensive to put on, it's simply not feasible. But it was great to have done it once."

But away they went! In 1980, they played a grand total of two venues in America. These were the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena (Which they played 7 Times) and the Nassau Coliseum in Unidale, New York (5 Times.). These were in February, and then the next set of shows was.. in August, 1980, at Earls Court in London. After playing a total of six shows, their next shows took place in February, 1981! This time in Westfalenhallen (Germany please), a venue in Dortmund, Germany, which was 8 shows and then one last outing at the Earl Court in July.

This tour, by the way? No Pink Floyd band member made a profit on this tour, but Richard Wright (Who was brought along with the title of Session Musician) made a profit! Take that, Waters!

The idea to include live concert footage of any significant length for The Wall film was dropped shortly before the final shows took place. Though, this is where things get.. muddy. It had been widely believed that 'the wrong type of film' had been used and the results were dark and murky. Mark Fisher, partly responsible for designing the show said the footage was: 'very dark and horrible and boring and should be burned'. These rumours were partially scotched when the Channel 4 documentary 'Behind the Wall' (2000) used perfectly clear footage from the 1981 concerts. Yeah. I don't know what's going on about this film other than someone probably didn't want it shown.

David Gilmour said this about the filming in an interview, "About 20 minutes were shot – for example, 'Hey You', where the camera was behind the wall focusing on us, then it went up and over the wall onto the audience. That's a great bit of footage. But only three tracks were filmed." Uh-huh. What does Waters say about this? That The London shows in 1980/81 were filmed and he had all of the footage and was thinking of putting it together to be released. However felt extremely reluctant to release the concerts on the VCR. What.

Want another twist in this tale? Waters, in 2009 during an interview with Mojo, stated he had found more footage! The assumption is that the cameramen just kept shooting when they weren't supposed to and nobody asked them anything. (Note: It's believed this footage is what is projected on the Wall during the song Mother on Waters' Wall Tour.) Waters did state he would possibly release the footage to the public, so we can only hope..

If you want an audio memory of this tour, then what I'm actually hear to talk about. You see, there's a thing called..

Is There Anybody Out There? The Wall Live 1980–81 (Released 1999)


    "In the Flesh?"
    "The Thin Ice"
    "Another Brick in the Wall (Part I)"
    "The Happiest Days of Our Lives"
    "Another Brick in the Wall (Part II)"
    "Mother"
    "Goodbye Blue Sky"
    "Empty Spaces"
    "What Shall We Do Now?"
    "Young Lust"
    "One of My Turns"
    "Don't Leave Me Now"
    "Another Brick in the Wall (Part III)"
    "The Last Few Bricks"
    "Goodbye Cruel World"
    "Hey You"
    "Is There Anybody Out There?"
    "Nobody Home"
    "Vera"
    "Bring the Boys Back Home"
    "Comfortably Numb"
    "The Show Must Go On"
    "In the Flesh"
    "Run Like Hell"
    "Waiting for the Worms"
    "Stop"
    "The Trial"
    "Outside the Wall"
(Songs in Bold are not on The Wall album)

The album artwork featured the life-masks of the four band members in front of a black wall. It was worn by the Surrogate Band during the song, well, "In The Flesh". Because of every song on the live album was recorded at different dates, it's worth noting that "Goodbye Blue Sky" and parts of "Run Like Hell" were taken from the 17 June 1981 show, the very last performance by the four-man Pink Floyd until the 2005 Live 8 concert. See More Here

But this is the best way to listen to The Wall, for me. It seems like this was always the way that Waters wanted to present it at least. There's an extra atmosphere to songs like "Goodbye Blue Sky", "Another Brick In The Wall (Part 1)" and "Hey You" that the live format seems to add quite nicely. Really, it's got the band on fire too. The first half of The Wall is quite nicely bolsted with "What Shall We Do Now?", opening with some amazing drumming from Mason. Infact, the first half is even nicely summed with the new song "The Last Few Bricks", which contains themes from contained themes from "The Happiest Days of Our Lives", "Don't Leave Me Now", "Young Lust", "Empty Spaces" and "What Shall We Do Now?". It's really quite fantastic.

The second half features, in my honest opinion, the best version of "Comfortably Numb". I'm serious. It's simply perfect, it sounds rather more menacing if I'm to be honest, which might be the reason why. "Run Like Hell" through to "The Trial" is breathtaking, Waters/Gilmour step up to the plate with the vocals so well that it's perfection from both of their voices.

Plus, the recording of "Outside the Wall" ends with some git shouting "MONEY!".

[ReaperKK]

I love the live album. I have the booklet that came along with it when the cd's being in the cover. I have to agree with you that the way to listen to it is live.

[masterthes]

yes, that live album! Definitely the best way to experience The Wall (although the versions of ABITWII and Comfortably Numb on Pulse are the definitive versions of those songs)

Like a lot of you, in terms of content, it's my least favorite of the big 4, but from a sentimental value, it's my second favorite. Dark Side was my first taste of the band, but it was The Wall that really made me a fan

[Orbert]

I think it's a mistake to refer to this as a "tour" and evaluate it as such.  Pink Floyd made it very clear from the beginning that because of all the logistical considerations outlined above, that there would be no tour.  It was not possible to take a show of this magnitude on the road.  Instead, they would play extended engagements in select cities, and that's exactly what they did.  They were publicized far in advance, so people could make travel arrangements and buy tickets.  There were to be 10 shows in L.A., 10 in New York, and 10 in London if they could get that together.  And as you state, they only ended up playing seven, five, and six.  They might have broken even if they'd sold out all 30 shows, but the tickets were very expensive (for the time) and simple math tells you that they had to cut nearly half the shows, and the "tour" was a financial disaster.  Those who saw the show got to see something truly amazing, no doubt.  But it basically destroyed the band.

Those of you who prefer the live album or the movie to the original studio album, that's great.  We all have different tastes, and many people's first exposure to The Wall in any format was the movie, not the album.  And the music really does come alive on the live album, no question.  But for me, it's something like when they make a movie from a well-known book.  I prefer books to movies anyway, but if I really like a book, I would prefer to basically see on screen what's in the book.  No extra shit added to appeal to a wider audience, and while it's a given that some material must be cut, it really helps if the screenwriters and editors have at least read the book and have some idea of what's actually important to the story.

Anyway, I'd probably listened to The Wall album 50 times before the movie came out.  The Wall was my senior year in high school.  While it's not my favorite now, it was for a long time, and I think it's brilliant exactly as it is.  There was no movie, there was only the album, and the movie that played in your head as you listened to it and read the words.  Watching the movie version of The Wall is basically seeing someone's else's vision of the story, when I was fine with mine, and prefer it.

As for the live album, it's great.  But for me, much of the appeal of Pink Floyd's music is the atmosphere it creates and the perfect production, the perfect blending and layering of instruments and vocals in the studio.  The performances on the live album are great, but again, every note, every second of the studio album is in my permanent memory, and every deviation from that just sounds "wrong" to me.  Better perhaps, sometimes even preferable, but not right.  I still spin The Wall sometimes, on road trips or other situations where I have some time to myself.  But I haven't listened to the live version in probably 30 years.

I consider myself fortunate to have been there to see all of this music unfold in my lifetime, but many of you have a different perspective on all of it, and I recognize that my view can sometimes be myopic.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, the live album is good, but there is no way it is as good or better than the studio original.

As for the film, maybe it's the "I heard those versions first" factor, but the film version of Mother remains my favorite version of that tune.

[hefdaddy42]

I am with you, Orbert.  The album version is definitive.

[jingle.boy]

I am with you, Orbert.  The album version is definitive.

I actually have a bootleg video of one of the Earls Court shows. Terrible video quality, but interesting to watch none the less.

My favorite PF album, and the grand-daddy of concept albums (though The Who fans might try to argue that). Hard to imagine it as anything but a double album, even though in this day and age, it would pretty much fit on a single CD.

So many memories with this album, and so many memories I've forgotten. Watched the movie countless times in my teens, never once straight. I hardly remember anything about the it  . Seeing this live a few years back was a magnificent spectacle to say the least.

[Jaq]

Given how many concept albums there were between Tommy and The Wall, yeah, I think people might argue that point 

[jingle.boy]

Given how many concept albums there were between Tommy and The Wall, yeah, I think people might argue that point 

I'm struggling off the top of my head to think of one that would be in the same league as either of these two.

[hefdaddy42]

Given how many concept albums there were between Tommy and The Wall, yeah, I think people might argue that point 

I'm struggling off the top of my head to think of one that would be in the same league as either of these two.

Me too.

One really good one is the Eagles's Desperado, but I wouldn't put it in the same category as the aforementioned two.

[jingle.boy]

Just listening to the live release, and it's a lot better than I remember.  I've listened to the studio version countless times, and this is about as good.

[Orbert]

Given how many concept albums there were between Tommy and The Wall, yeah, I think people might argue that point 

I'm struggling off the top of my head to think of one that would be in the same league as either of these two.

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis.  Double album, character study, certainly in the same league and very much in the same vein.

Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes.  Double album, different type of concept album but an 82-minute rock symphony in four movements and considered a masterpiece by many.

Also, in general I think that calling something the grand-daddy of its genre would imply that it's the oldest, the patriarch.  The Wall is the youngest of all these.  Tommy probably has a better claim to the title by truly being the first of its kind.  I'm just saying.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Don't forget Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, or Freak Out! though, which all predated even Tommy by a couple of years and can also be regarded as concept albums.

[Orbert]

Maybe in some circles, but certainly not all, and not in the same vein or league.  I'm wondering what your criteria are.

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is not a concept album according The Beatles themselves.  Paul had an idea about making the album supposedly the work an a fictitious band known as Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and came up with the idea of the reprise at the end and also having both pieces lead into the songs that followed, providing some continuity.  But that's it, and that's only half the album.  The rest is truly just a collection of songs.

Pet Sounds I've never understood, but if you say so, then maybe.  I've heard it lauded as a landmark in production and composition (which I don't really get either), but I've never heard it referred to as a concept album.  Don't get me wrong.  I love The Beach Boys and consider Pet Sounds a great collection of songs, but what is the concept?

Freak Out! is amazing for what it is, but let's be realistic.  It's a bunch of guys let loose in a studio to do whatever they want.  Side Four is literally them messing around with whatever the find in the studio and recording the results.  Again, what is the concept?

[KevShmev]

I never got the "Sgt. Pepper is a concept album" think either.  I think that's a case of the Beatles being so revered that some just like to credit them with everything, so they give them the "They had the first concept album" label, too.  Hell, I love the Beatles, but let's be real.

[masterthes]

No love for Quadrophenia?

[KevShmev]

Quadrophenia is great.  I go back and forth on what my favorite Who record is - not just concept album, but record overall - between that and Tommy.

[Mladen]

Holy shit, these 15 pages are an amazing read. Congratulations to everyone.

I've been extremely busy lately so I didn't have time to go through any of these albums with you (or listen to them some more), and it would kinda suck to join now when the discussion is slowly coming to an end. However, I'll follow and I'll read. I'm loving all of this.

[GentlemanofDread]

On that note, I'll probably have The Final Cut/Some solo albums up tomorrow or Tuesday.

[Sketchy]

ARE THERE ANY PARANOIDS IN THE AUDIENCE? IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO IS WEAK?

(Yeah, I love the live album).

[Orbert]

No love for Quadrophenia?

Crap.  I knew I was forgetting one.  Can't believe it was the other one from The Who, when we were discussing Tommy in the first place.

[JayOctavarium]

So I will say... THE WALL is my all time favourite album. It tops anything else I have ever listened to and will continue to until the day I die. I became obsessed with the concept behind The Wall in high school when a friend of mine was in one of Paul Green's School Of Rock programs and they put on a full performance of the album. The weeks before the show I decided to steal my dad's copy of The Wall (and his copy of DSotM) on CD and listen to them. Before this, I had heard The Wall (and DSotM) a hundred times from my dad listening but I never delve deeper. I became obsessed with the concept of events in one's life driving them to isolating him/her self from the rest of the world. Then and even still today I deal with social anxieties that make me just want to build a wall around myself and cut myself off. I've seen Water's live Wall show twice... and they will forever be ingrained as the greatest two shows I have ever seen.

Also... my next tattoo is going to be the crossed hammers somewhere on my body... probably on my other calf (opposite of my Majesty Symbol )

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Regarding the concept albums thing above: none of the three I mentioned are concept albums in the vein of The Wall, Tommy, or The Lamb which all are focused on a story with a plot arc and characters, but rather in closely tied themes (musically or lyrically). Hell, there's probably still a few out there that predate even those, but then again, I don't wanna get into a "what makes a concept album" debate now.

It's true that Tommy can be regarded as the predecessor to concept albums that closely follow a story arc, though I think The Wall and The Lamb perfected it into what a lot of artists strive to do to this very day.

[jingle.boy]

It's true that Tommy can be regarded as the predecessor to concept albums that closely follow a story arc, though I think The Wall and The Lamb perfected it into what a lot of artists strive to do to this very day.

Exactly my thoughts.  I think that both Tommy and Quad were the potential competition for my 'grand-daddy' comment.  Tales and The Lamb came to mind with Jaq's first challenge, but they don't quite compare to The Wall.  I believe The Wall is the standard for "true" concept albums... with characters, storyline, plot etc...  not just thematic albums (DSotM for instance).

[jammindude]

Don't want to derail anything, but while we're on the subject. 

Days of Future Past by The Moody Blues at least deserves a mention.  Even though it is a bit more "loose" of a concept...it is certainly much closer to a realized concept album than Pet Sounds or Sgt. Pepper.     I still consider them to be one of the very first "prog bands" and Days to be one of the first prog albums....though not a double album like the ones mentioned.

Anyway.   Like many others, I went through a phase of being absolutely obsessed with The Wall.   I think there was a 6 month period when I was about 18 when I did not listen to any other music but The Wall.   The cassette did not leave my car's tape player for 6 straight months, and I still wasn't really "sick of it" when I decided to move on.   The concepts just resonated.   Not that I had lost my father or any of the other things mentioned.  But in a broader brush stroke, it just kindof touches on the themes of ALL the various things (tragedies and other painful events) that can leave scars on a person and make them want to pull away from all human contact.   We all have our own individual "bricks" and that is what so many people relate to.   If they are not the type of person to pull away, the pain often makes them wish they could. 

Absolutely amazing album.

[GentlemanofDread]

Whilst I can't talk about the movie version of The Wall really here, (I love it but man is it crazy), it does feature into what was originally planned for the next album. It was supposed to be a soundtrack album of the movie, featuring new music and re-recorded songs that were in the movie, like "When the Tigers Broke Free" and "Bring the Boys Back Home". Mr Waters was also planning to write new music to expand on the story that was told on The Wall.  Then, Falklands War happened. Waters was upset with the display of aggressive foreign policy from Miss Thatcher, so he changed musical direction for this album, becoming quite political really.

This change did not sit well with Mr David Gilmour. He was quite unimpressed by Waters's apparent politicising, and the new creative direction prompted arguments between the two. Infact, Gilmour also didn't like the fact they were giving songs that didn't make the cut on The Wall, either. Although this wasn't the first time this had happened (Dogs and Sheep, for example), Gilmour felt like that the tracks "Your Possible Pasts", "One of the Few", "The Final Cut", and "The Hero's Return" simply weren't good enough. He stated he wanted to work on new material..

'I'm certainly guilty at times of being lazy, and moments have arrived when Roger might say, "Well, what have you got?" And I'd be like, "Well, I haven't got anything right now. I need a bit of time to put some ideas on tape." There are elements of all this stuff that, years later, you can look back on and say, "Well, he had a point there." But he wasn't right about wanting to put some duff tracks on The Final Cut. I said to Roger, "If these songs weren't good enough for The Wall, why are they good enough now?"' This is a quote from David Gilmour, and well.. Okay, so I can't check on this, but when I was first doing research on this entire discography thread, I remember reading about Waters giving Gilmour a task to bring in one song, any kind of song for the album. Gilmour came back with a bunch of guitar lines.  So, Waters went on with this album.

Early on in making of the album, Gilmour and Waters were actually capable of working together, playing the video game Donkey Kong in their spare time, but they soon couldn't stand each other and so went into recording on their own. Like previous Pink Floyd albums, The Final Cut used sound effects combined with advances and innovations in audio recording technology, which is where Nick Mason spent most of his time. Because he was going through a divorce, he too was not spending time with the rest of the band and just doing a bit of work. After months of poor relations, and following a final confrontation, Gilmour was removed from the credit list as producer, at his own insistence. This is.. well..


The Final Cut- 1983

1.    "The Post War Dream"      3:00
2.    "Your Possible Pasts"      4:26
3.    "One of the Few"      1:11
4.    "When the Tigers Broke Free"      3:16
5.    "The Hero's Return"      2:43
6.    "The Gunner's Dream"      5:18
7.    "Paranoid Eyes"      3:41
8.    "Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert"      1:17
9.    "The Fletcher Memorial Home"      4:12
10.    "Southampton Dock"      2:10
11.    "The Final Cut"      4:45
12.    "Not Now John"      4:56
13.    "Two Suns in the Sunset"      5:23

Okay, so I'm leaving the solo albums for Wednesday evening, because I felt like the point of Waters leaving should be a discussion point, then we'll have Momentary lapse/amused on Friday. But for now...

I like this album. But no way will I listen to it repeatedly. It's too depressing, way too depressing. Considering really, it's now the unbridled emotion of Waters about yet another bloody pointless war, I suppose there was going to be nothing else on this album but depressing. Despite how uninterested Gilmour was during the creative and recording process, this album features some solid guitar work from him. Nothing too spectacular mind you, but solid.

The tracks I listen to the most are the last four. They're beautiful, constrating pieces of music that really showcases what would be the last Roger Waters effort with the Floyd. You've got an acoustic based song, a depressing rock song followed by hard rock, with that climax of "Two Suns In The Sunset" really adding to it. But the rest of the album.. really, it is just too depressing. Not bad, just..

Hard to listen to.

[jingle.boy]

I was in to Pink Floyd for years before I finally purchased The Final Cut.  I like the latter part of your writeup GoD, and it makes total sense.  It's hard for me to listen to because it sticks out like a sore thumb in the PF catalog.  It doesn't feel progressive like Animals or WYWH; it isn't spectacular like DSotM; it isn't ground-breaking and incredibly creative like the Wall... it just feels different from every other PF album I had and knew.  It's not bad... just different - and mediocre.

[Nihil-Morari]

I'm ashamed that I was too late to discuss The Wall. That's one of my favorites, if not my favorite album of all time.
Here's the story: in 1979, when my dad was 20 years old, he was slowly becoming a Floyd fan but fell in love with The Wall the moment he heard it. I grew up with that album, and when the time came to figure out what I wanted to play on the final exam of my 4 years of Conservatory, it just had to be The Wall. I was 20 years old when me and a couple of my best friends started rehearsing the album. (21 when we finally played it)
Apart from the fact that I really listened to the album in an entirely different way those months, than ever before, I never realized, until the night we performed, how big of a deal it had to be for my dad. There are album that I've liked since I was 20, but to think that my son or daughter (if I get kids) would perform Bridge Across Forever, Six Degrees, or, or, when they would finish their school, is magical. My dad was crying his eyes out that night, that made the album even more special than it already was.

[Orbert]

That's an awesome story!    Yeah, nothing like playing something for one or both parents that has real meaning for them.


As for The Final Cut, it always sounded to me like what we later found out it was: an epilogue to The Wall.  It didn't have the magic of a fully-realised Pink Floyd album, or one created with the full involvement of all players, and it wasn't either of these things.

And really, I've never liked it.  I played it I think once or twice, then put it on the shelf.  Years later, (prompted by a discussion here on DTF I believe) I gave it another spin.  Nope.  Still don't like it.  Still too damned depressing and empty sounding.

[hefdaddy42]

Never really cared for it either.  I mean, it's not bad, but it's not Floyd, either.