New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[Ad134]

He's stated that he prefers being the "uncontested" frontman - something that happened when MP left. It's entirely possible that his improved stage presence is a result of this.

[Anguyen92]

That's another good positive about the current DVD compared to Score.  In BTFW, he seemed to be pepped up a good amount, and did a fine job of trying to engage with the crowd.  I don't think he would have said something like "Who dances to the Mirror?" in Score.

I just think the difference maker of the two is mainly the beard.

[BlobVanDam]

He's performing with way more personality. A direct result of MP leaving.

I don't see that much difference. JLB has always been ok.
MP was the biggest natural "performer" in the band in that regard, but it's not that he ever held JLB back, he just stood out among the rest of DT. Maybe JLB just seems to have more personality by comparison now.

I just think the difference maker of the two is mainly the beard.

You can never underestimate the power of beard.

[fischermasamune]

For me, the Act II and Encore of BTFW are amazing, and the best parts of the DVD. Still, I think the orchestra should be more relevant and distinguished in the mix. I could barely notice the difference during the SFAM songs. Illumination Theory, in the other hand, benefits a lot from the choir and orchestra.

[DerekTheater]

Labrie's got that Tokyo 93 swagger back.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Labrie's got that Tokyo 93 swagger back.

DT's got their swag back

[Madman Shepherd]

That's another good positive about the current DVD compared to Score.  In BTFW, he seemed to be pepped up a good amount, and did a fine job of trying to engage with the crowd.  I don't think he would have said something like "Who dances to the Mirror?" in Score.

I just think the difference maker of the two is mainly the beard.

Before, it always seemed like he was being held back.  His banter would occasionally give us some especially special gems, but if you check out clips from old shows, he only ever spoke to the audience in specific spots almost every night.  For instance, after the second song he would usually say, "Hello (name of city) how are we doing tonight?  We've got a great show for you blah blah blah..." Edit: Just to clarify, it seemed to me like he was being told "You can only speak in between these songs..."

Now he cuts loose, he engages the audience more, even if it is for the most part just more "Boston let me hear you!!!"  We still get some great stuff like his rant in Chicago about people putting their cell phones away and just enjoying the show, cracking jokes with JP (like when JP walked over to him mid sentence and James froze with a scared look on his face and said, "Am I about to be pummeled?" )

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (it seems like the same people on this board are just a broken record of their same old opinion), I don't see how Mike Portnoy was considered this amazing performer.  Sure he was fun to watch but so is Mike Mangini.  The only difference was Portnoy was constantly standing up, pointing at the crowd and raising his hands to prompt the audience.  Nothing wrong with that sometimes unless it becomes a distraction (which it did sometimes)

Labrie's got that Tokyo 93 swagger back.

DT's got their swag back

This makes me hungry for cotton candy

[Grizz]

Given the context that's kind of weird.

[Madman Shepherd]

Given the context that's kind of weird.

I'm ok with that

[sylvinception]

Hello guys.

I still hesitate for buying the digital album version of BTFW.
The sound quality is really great ??

Thanks for your answers!!

[Rodni Demental]

^^^ I'd go for full concert with video as opposed to only having audio but to answer your question; I'd say yes, sound quality is perfectly fine on digital version.

[Grizz]

I don't like the sound on any.

[TheGreatPretender]

It's got a more genuine sounding live feel to it. There's a reverb on it that definitely gives it the impression of being at a concert. I found that apart from the occasional crowd noise, a lot of DT's other live albums tend to have a very dry almost studio quality sound. Not that I particularly minded, and not like it was COMPLETELY dry. But with this album, just listening to it definitely evokes a stronger feeling of being at a concert.

[Grizz]

Actually, it could have just been the crappy audio equipment/lineage I have going here, but I was often looking for more of that. Like Score. I like that it sounds like a boot.
Also, I've never seen such horrible compression. I can hardly stand it. It might be worse than the live sound.

[Ben_Jamin]

This is the best Dream Theater bluray/dvd I've seen. Of course it has its flaws but the sound and visuals surely make up for it.

[Virtualman64]

Got a couple of points of discussion; First,why is it called breaking the fourth wall?Also,it seems that I saw JP playing a seven string during at least part of SFAM.It wasn't recorded that way was it?Lastly JR's Zen Riffer looks like something that other Keyboardist played in the 70's.Greg Guffria,Gary Wright.Is there a difference?

[BlobVanDam]

Got a couple of points of discussion; First,why is it called breaking the fourth wall?Also,it seems that I saw JP playing a seven string during at least part of SFAM.It wasn't recorded that way was it?Lastly JR's Zen Riffer looks like something that other Keyboardist played in the 70's.Greg Guffria,Gary Wright.Is there a difference?

I believe The Dance of Eternity was recorded with a 7 string, or at least it goes low enough for one. The rest of the SFAM songs they played on the live album would be in standard tuning, from what I recall.

[GasparXR]

Got a couple of points of discussion; First,why is it called breaking the fourth wall?Also,it seems that I saw JP playing a seven string during at least part of SFAM.It wasn't recorded that way was it?Lastly JR's Zen Riffer looks like something that other Keyboardist played in the 70's.Greg Guffria,Gary Wright.Is there a difference?

I believe The Dance of Eternity was recorded with a 7 string, or at least it goes low enough for one. The rest of the SFAM songs they played on the live album would be in standard tuning, from what I recall.

I think he meant the beginning of Finally Free. That song doesn't feature 7-string, but JP plays the intro with one because it directly follow TDOE with no break.

[rumborak]

Got a couple of points of discussion; First,why is it called breaking the fourth wall?

It's a theater term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall
After all, the DVD was shot in an opera house.

Lastly JR's Zen Riffer looks like something that other Keyboardist played in the 70's.Greg Guffria,Gary Wright.Is there a difference?

You will likely hear passionate rebuttals here because keytars are usually made fun of these days, but yes, it's really just a modern keytar.
What's funny is, if you do an image search for "Zen Riffer", it seems there is exactly one person playing it: Jordan Rudess.

[Dreamer]

Just played the Blu Ray for the first time - fabulous! DT triumphant and top of their game, Illumination Theory made me very emotional - love it. 

[KevShmev]

I never got why keytars were so mocked.  Granted, most of the people who make fun them are critics (see: dopes) or music fans who hate almost any kind of arty rock (see: dork hipsters who listen to Elvis Costello), but a keytar is basically a device that enables a keyboard player to get from behind his immobile place during a concert and have fun with the crowd a bit.  What's wrong with that?  Also, Peter Gabriel once used a keytar, so that automatically disqualifies the cheese factor.

[GentlemanofDread]

Plus, Rudess' keytar looks cool.

[rumborak]

You guys can give all the rational arguments you want, but then there's this video:

https://youtu.be/-jpr3oe96JU

Sometimes a path is so scorched, it shan't recover.

[me7]

Sometimes a path is so scorched, it shan't recover.

Well, there's always this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbtw6x1Ozz4

[Octavarious]

I would really like to get the BR+3 CDs  version, but what are they waiting to sell it in a way we European Fans can get it easily and cheaper? Amazon or whatever?
If they did a de lux pack or so, why sell it only to a part of your potential public and not to everyone? Also financially it doesn't make much sense, i.e. No scale economy.
Ok for the first days, pre-orders on their website etc., but now it's time to sell it worldwide.
Few people like to pay extra delivery costs + customs plus wait weeks to get it...
Maybe we have to wait XMas offers?

[weezul]

Still really think we're not being told the whole story about the orchestra. You can see the viola? (iirc) guy really going for it in the DT shirt, on parts of overture and it's just not there. And Finally free... those fakey female backing vocals.... why?!?! why?!?! It seems to me the orchestra/choir is nothing but a gimmick for sales of the dvd at this point. A Massively wasted opportunity. If the orchestra diddn't record well, why give them so much screen time? A shame, because apart from this, I really think it's DTs best show in a long time!!!

Can anyone who was at the show confirm we're missing a lot of what was actually played on the night?

[Grizz]

The people who were there (myself included) have repeatedly said that, outside of The Embracing Circle, you couldn't hear jack. I believe it was something to do with incompetent sound engineers that have never heard of a counterclockwise motion.

[BlobVanDam]

Still really think we're not being told the whole story about the orchestra. You can see the viola? (iirc) guy really going for it in the DT shirt, on parts of overture and it's just not there. And Finally free... those fakey female backing vocals.... why?!?! why?!?! It seems to me the orchestra/choir is nothing but a gimmick for sales of the dvd at this point. A Massively wasted opportunity. If the orchestra diddn't record well, why give them so much screen time? A shame, because apart from this, I really think it's DTs best show in a long time!!!

Can anyone who was at the show confirm we're missing a lot of what was actually played on the night?

I don't think it's a gimmick for DVD sales, I think it was supposed to be something special to add to those songs for a one off show, but it didn't record well, so they were mixed very low or even absent.
It would have been weird to try and hide their appearance on the DVD though. Even if they're not present in the mix, the visual presence of the orchestra still adds to the experience imo.

I suspect the recordings didn't turn out well enough for whatever reason, so they had to replace it with keyboards, and mix in the live elements wherever possible.

[King Postwhore]

People, get over it.  You life is not ruined by it.  If you don't like the samples and the touch ups, don't watch the damn thing.  To quote William Shatner, "Get a life.".

[erwinrafael]

The orchestra and the choir is very audible to me. When JR does his keyboard patch, I think that mainly enters through the left speaker. That is what I hear.

I hope everybody heard the timpani. 

EDIT: Ok I rewatched the vids. I don't think I have seen any shot of the orchestra or the choir singing where I can not hear a sound that I can not imagine is coming from them. Am I missing something?

[hefdaddy42]

No.

[rumborak]

I gotta be honest, for me the whole raison d'etre of the orchestra is IT. And that's totally fine with me. The rest, well, I think they simply realized that having a whole orchestra for one song only is kinda silly, and so they essentially have the orchestra and choir do JR's patches. And inevitably compete with him.

On a grander scheme of things, I would like DT to utilize an orchestra in a more "integrated" way, I.e. by embedding their own instruments into it (as opposed to just have the orchestra fill sonic space), but I'm not holding my breath. In all likelihood, this will have been their last live orchestra thing.

[TAC]

In all likelihood, this will have been their last live orchestra thing.

One can only hope. Honestly, at this point it's pretty lame performing  with an orchestra. The only thing that legitimizes this for me was that it is Berklee and was performed in Boston.

[weezul]

so they had to replace it with keyboards, and mix in the live elements wherever possible.

sounds to me like that's what happened

The people who were there (myself included) have repeatedly said that, outside of The Embracing Circle, you couldn't hear jack. I believe it was something to do with incompetent sound engineers that have never heard of a counterclockwise motion.

shame. thanks

[Madman Shepherd]

People, get over it.  You life is not ruined by it.  If you don't like the samples and the touch ups, don't watch the damn thing.  To quote William Shatner, "Get a life.".

I think that quote is misattributed.  I think it was actually Mark Twain but your point still stands.