Sorry for large post, I would have trimmed the quotes but just wanted to retain context.
But I mostly wanted to say; I think some of you guys are understating the relevance of the drum patterns in the composition. It's something Nearl Peart said that left an impression on me, and it's something I am inclined to agree with, I wouldn't quote me directly, but it was along the lines of: [i]Drums are usually the subject of rock music, they don't have to be, but more often than not, the drums are the key ingredient and basis for the progression and movement of the song. Also, we practically universally use the subject of the kick and the snare to define and separate aspects of the music, and the cymbalwork is the glue that holds the focal points of that rhythm together. Lyrics are another rhythmic aspect of the music, because the structure and annunciation of the word is what determines which beats are emphasised by the phrasing of the lyrics. This shows that lyrics play an integral role in the rhythm and structure of a song, equally as much as they determine the lead melody (which is what we normally assume as the primary role of vocals). [/i]
it all boiled down to that the drums are only like the basic structures of songs. drums, rhythms or simply beats are the subject of music in general and not just rock in particular. the time signatures holds the music and keeps it in place. w/o the vital ingredients a series of time signature bars or drum sections are just hollow structures with no functions. guitars, keyboards or even bass, can create main melodies, but drums serves to hold them in place. Mangini was clever enough to apply the complex patterns towards Petrucci and Rudess' melodies. as i recall Petrucci has said for the current album the members picked each song they feel close to for writing the lyrics which means the vocal melodies were already composed be4 lyrics were written, i dunno if thats correct to assume for all of their previous albums. James wrote quite a few lyrics for the songs but does that mean he wrote the vocal or main melodies of the songs?
I think the subject was said as Rock music because I guess that's the type of music Rush generalise themselves with. But I think the 'subject' of music doesn't HAVE to be drums. It's just a very familiar, and ideal rhythmic device to hold other notes, progressions and melodies together. Surely there are other types of expressions that can 'hold' music together so to speak although I struggle to think of anything other than electronic/digital sounds, ie. synthetic drums. Our perception is too limited
But also, I wouldn't automatically assume that vocal melodies were pre-written, I figured it was a primary role for a lyricist to develop the melody. Besides, it's pretty limiting to impose words on a predetermined melody. There might be a generalised motif that is implied by the other instruments but I think composing credit is due to a vocalist who writes lyrics and determines vocal melodies, even if they're altering predetermined lines and stretching or contracting a melody to fit their words.
It seems that as a drummer and a lyricist he's established a very profound understanding of the relationship between these functions in music composition and he could describe this idea far more elegantly than my attempt. But part of my point is, a bunch of you guys seem to be discounting drums from the composition to a certain extent. I mean a drummer doesn't (traditionally) write chord progressions or melodies based on scales, but they do determine the mood and lay a basis for other subjects within the music to fit. Also, a drummer is normally more aware of the arrangement of a piece than anyone else because their sections are based on differing phrases of bars for each section or movement. Melodic instruments and singers have phrasing too, but to different effect, and normally with the drumming as a basis or foundation. And some of the motifs and progressions made by JR/JP wouldn't have been generated without the drumbeat that gave them the foundation for some of those ideas. I'm obviously assuming that they write as a group and so the would have bounced ideas off of each other like this. Of course not to say that any one individual member couldn't have come up with an idea on their own and tried to integrate it into the compositions, but I'm betting that most of the time the ideas are spontaneous, and naturally form and grow from each others ideas.
i dont get the impression that anybody here is attempting or implying to discount Portnoy's input as a drummer and lyricist. each member excluding Myung has had their own side projects and even James composed the music on his solo albums. in all the projects Portnoy's involved, from Transatlantic, Flying Colors to the current Winery Dogs, the music were composed as a group similar to Dream Theater style. there isn't any evidence of him writing an entire piece all by himself or has done solo albums like Petrucci and Rudess. drumming as the foundation only provides the basic layout. and no doubt Portnoy developed and arranged it into complex patterns. but ADToE was still written w/o drum parts and was later programmed by Petrucci and then added inputs from Mangini.
I don't think anyone was implying to discount drums or lyrics completely, but it was clear that they weren't necessarily being recognised or appreciated as the critical devices that they are, especially in a discussion about relevance of roles in composition. Because there are different methods, there are potentially imaginably unlimited possibilities to how a composition can turn out. If you reverse the roles, you can imply drum patterns by composing the other instruments first which is what happened with ADTOE. But we know this was a unique method and a first for DT at the time, and even then I still think Mike Mangini should be given more credit for his interpretations because I'm sure his patterns were more interesting and probably more creative, and certainly more real than some pre-sequenced, segmented semi-complex bee boo bops.
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One last thing.. I can't find who said it but someone mentioned something about making assumptions based on what we would personally do, and then imposing our perception and ideas onto our own versions of JP/JR/MP etc. Well regarding Jordan; he doesn't have an age limit to when he'll stop playing keyboard... (Perhaps a part from his deathday which not even he could possibly know). Which probably means he doesn't have a limit to when he'll be done with DT.
I think we've only just recently passed the halfway point and that they'll have a decent collection of about 20+ albums before it's over. At least, that's the best outcome that I'd prefer to buy into.
Topic: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..." (Read 48226 times)