Author Topic: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."  (Read 47776 times)

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Offline Moor

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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-weighs-in-on-queensryche-settlement-calls-it-the-right-outcome/

What about the fans MP that followed you and DT throughout this suite? Did you think of htem before making such a statement? However... your thoughts?

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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 It seems the majority is on autopilot on the anti-Portnoy campaign here on the forum. Im not one of them. Hes just stating his opinion about QRs situation, and I do agree he should have made a point of them not being able to perform certain songs which were his idea 100%. I do believe the Octavarium concept was his from start to finish as well?

Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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It was his idea to do the 12SS, but the AA steps were created by AA, not MP. I don't see him saying he wants the rights to the 12SS now, he just says he sort of wishes he would have, and that he understands why Geoff wanted the rights to Operation Mindcrime. Although at least when DT plays 12SS songs, they sound good, unlike ACoS cover attempts he does with other people. (ACoS is kind of about him too, but still).
I don't think he should have the sole rights to it, but he can play it whever he wants if he decides and finds some band members that are capable.
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Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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It seems the majority is on autopilot on the anti-Portnoy campaign here on the forum. Im not one of them. Hes just stating his opinion about QRs situation, and I do agree he should have made a point of them not being able to perform certain songs which were his idea 100%. I do believe the Octavarium concept was his from start to finish as well?

The whole theme of the full circle, 5 and 8 was his idea IIRC, but the album would be just fine without that theme connecting 8VM to the rest of the songs on it. That's just a cool addition, it's not like PA or SS would have suffered too much without those themes. I'm not on the anti-Portnoy campaign, but I think he and the band have both moved on at this point (I hope), and going back through legal processes and interfering with each other's careers and ability to perform songs would be stupid. He wasn't kicked out, he left. not to mention he still plays DT stuff occasionally.
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Offline 425

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I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him. He must know they're playing The Shattered Fortress now and played The Root of All Evil on the ADTOE tour, right? If he does, it's pretty clear cut that he objects to playing the entire thing, not just one or two of the songs. Besides, I don't think Dream Theater is really itching to play the entire 12SS right now, are they?
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Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him.

I think you're right about this. He even said "If Dream Theater was to go out there and perform my five-song concept thing..." It seems to be them playing through the whole story he created is what would bother him, not individual songs.
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Offline mikeyd23

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I don't think MP really said anything wrong here, but didn't he forfeit the right to the songs when he quit the band?

Offline son_ov_hades

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I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.
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Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.

I think they all should be ABLE to, but playing the 12SS (altogether, not individual songs) should just be left alone out of respect, not because of legal bindings.

I think they should be able to play all their material as well, they wrote and played it with the band, and released it under the band name.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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I'm pretty sure they're not going to play the thing in full, so it's sort of a moot point.

Offline son_ov_hades

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 08:06:11 AM »
I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.

I think they all should be ABLE to, but playing the 12SS (altogether, not individual songs) should just be left alone out of respect, not because of legal bindings.

I think they should be able to play all their material as well, they wrote and played it with the band, and released it under the band name.

Well I highly doubt they'd play the whole thing anyway, which is good. I don't want them to but not out of respect for Mike Portnoy, I just hope to never see This Dying Soul live.  :P
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 08:06:41 AM »
I agree with most of what has been said so far. I don't see that DT would want to play the 12SS in one go at this point, for the very reasons that MP feels so close to it, but they're DT songs, so DT should be free to play them if they chose to. I'd like to hear MP get to perform the full suite one day too, because it works surprisingly better than expected in one go.

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 08:09:45 AM »
I understand MP's view and I agree that DT shouldn't play the suite in full, but I doubt they were ever going to do that anyway.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 08:36:09 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with the stance he took here, although I don't buy his "I didn't think about it" line about getting the rights to the 12SS.  We are supposed to believe that someone as OCD, anal and detail-oriented as Mike Portnoy simply didn't think about trying to get the rights to "his concept and his baby" during the split?  No freaking way.  I just think his pride won't let him admit that quitting the band the way he did probably took away most of his leverage when it came to such demands.

Also, regarding the comments about Floyd, no way did Roger Waters get the last laugh.  Pink Floyd is retired, so it's not like they couldn't decide to tour tomorrow, even without Richard Wright, and not make more money that any of us could count.  They simply have chosen not to work since the mid 90s, except for the Live 8 one-off.  I mean, props to Waters for making boatloads of cash the last few years by being a nostalgia act, something Floyd never resorted to being, but let's have some perspective here, eh?

Offline rumborak

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
I understand MP's view and I agree that DT shouldn't play the suite in full, but I doubt they were ever going to do that anyway.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2014, 08:55:36 AM »
Roger Waters has sole songwriting credits on almost the entire Wall album.

12 Step Suite was written by the whole band.

I don't really see how these are analagous.
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Offline Onno

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 09:21:50 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him. He must know they're playing The Shattered Fortress now and played The Root of All Evil on the ADTOE tour, right? If he does, it's pretty clear cut that he objects to playing the entire thing, not just one or two of the songs. Besides, I don't think Dream Theater is really itching to play the entire 12SS right now, are they?
Fully agreed. Although the individual songs in the 12SS weren't written solely by MP, he thought of the concept and wrote all the lyrics. He probably did a shitload of arranging too and might have thought of the recurring musical themes. I understand that he wouldn't like DT to perform the whole 12SS from beginning to end.

Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2014, 09:50:34 AM »
Well I highly doubt they'd play the whole thing anyway, which is good. I don't want them to but not out of respect for Mike Portnoy, I just hope to never see This Dying Soul live.  :P

I'd actually love to see it.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2014, 09:51:49 AM »
Roger Waters has sole songwriting credits on almost the entire Wall album.

12 Step Suite was written by the whole band.

I don't really see how these are analagous.

I think that's also why the band would never cease control over it. I think at best MP could have gotten the rights of playing the whole thing in its entirety. Which is kinda moot anyway because a) DT likely has no interest in playing it anyway and b) he already has the ability to play whatever DT tune he wants, right?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 10:09:00 AM »
I'd be more interested to know if he insisted on having sole rights to play The Best of Times.  Not that he ever would, as I think I remember him saying it would be too emotional for him to ever play live, but I am sure he'd rather the band never play that song without him.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2014, 12:00:11 PM »
This is why we won't ever see ACOS live ever again...unless they invite MP for a special show.

Sensationalism at its best. But I'm not interested in the MP debate thing, I'm more interested in his view and thoughts.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2014, 12:09:22 PM »
I think that's also why the band would never cease control over it. I think at best MP could have gotten the rights of playing the whole thing in its entirety. Which is kinda moot anyway because a) DT likely has no interest in playing it anyway and b) he already has the ability to play whatever DT tune he wants, right?

MP doesn't need special rights to play the 12SS.  He can play any DT song whenever he wants (e.g. all the PSMS DT covers).  He could see about getting exclusive rights to play the 12SS, though I don't know how he could do that.  No song on a DT album was ever written by MP alone; I don't know how a judge would deem his contributions to those songs more important that they trounce all the other instrumentalists' contributions.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2014, 12:16:24 PM »
MP doesn't need special rights to play the 12SS.  He can play any DT song whenever he wants (e.g. all the PSMS DT covers).  He could see about getting exclusive rights to play the 12SS, though I don't know how he could do that.  No song on a DT album was ever written by MP alone; I don't know how a judge would deem his contributions to those songs more important that they trounce all the other instrumentalists' contributions.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the music is credited to all the instrumentalists and the lyrics are credited to MP for pretty much every song in the 12SS.  So while the idea for the lyrical concepts was his, it would be hard to make a case that the other guys didn't have a right to play the songs if they wanted to.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 12:29:47 PM »
Well I totes get MP, this is a stance he's had consistently for years in relation to which songs wouldn't be performed because they are distinctly "someone's baby" so it's not like he's changing his stance now that he's out of the band, or that the criteria to what constitutes as "a band member's baby" have changed.

Personally, I'd like DT to take the hint and not perform any more of the 12 step songs in the future, nor The Best Of Times. It's one thing when an ex-member of the band has repeatedly stated that he hasn't got any personal connection with the song which is "his baby" (the Kevin/SDV situation), and when you know your ex-drummer is kind of not okay with that or wishes that he had the exclusive right to do it. It's not expressly forbidden but it's kinda unnecessary. But I'm not a DT member thank God.

I'd kinda like to see someone asking Kevin about DT playing SDV now, but only because I'd hope for an answer more interesting than "well it's a Dream Theater song on a Dream Theater album". Dunno what exact interesting but plausible response it could be... maybe "I saw a video and it looks cool, good on them".

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 12:31:44 PM »
The problem is that TGP is a fan favourite

:(
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2014, 12:39:40 PM »
To me, if the band recorded the song and put it on one of their albums, it should be fair game to play it live.  I get not playing something like The Best of Times out of respect, given what the song means to their ex-drummer, but if the song is that personal, then maybe it shouldn't have been released in the first place.  Once it's out there, well, it's out there. :lol :lol

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 12:44:58 PM »
Yeah, but then you can also say that the 12-step-suite is equally as personal to Mike, because he said he is. I mean we could get into debates over whether or not death is more personal than recovery (and it wouldn't be the weirdest thing debated on dtf dot com :lol) but ultimately we just have to wait and see whether the band plays it again and how Mike feels about it and vice versa. Obviously DT dudes think everything is fair game, maybe their attitude will change, maybe not.

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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2014, 12:47:50 PM »
To me, if the band recorded the song and put it on one of their albums, it should be fair game to play it live.  I get not playing something like The Best of Times out of respect, given what the song means to their ex-drummer, but if the song is that personal, then maybe it shouldn't have been released in the first place.  Once it's out there, well, it's out there. :lol :lol

Yeah I agree with that.  I don't understand the "DT shouldn't play these songs that are meaningful to MP" perspective really.  They were released as DT songs and MP quit DT.  Therefore, DT can continue to play whatever DT songs they would like, whenever they would like regardless of whether MP may or may not have an emotional tie to the lyrics of those songs.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2014, 12:48:09 PM »
Well, the band has played two of the five 12SS songs thus far since his departure, and considering they've only had two tours since, I think that shows that they have no problem playing those songs.  I doubt they'll ever play the whole thing straight through (Thank GOD!!), but I think most of the songs from it are ones they'll always consider (I see Repentance being the one they'll never play, for obvious reasons).

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2014, 12:56:19 PM »
(I see Repentance being the one they'll never play, for obvious reasons).

I'd agree it's the least likely song for them to play, but why is it obvious that they'd never play it?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2014, 12:58:31 PM »
The apology section would be strange live without all of the recorded apologies, and playing them live now would be even stranger since most of those who participated are buddies with Portnoy (Neal Morse, Akerfeldt, Chris Jericho, etc.).   I can't see them getting on board with playing the latter half of that song now.

Offline rumborak

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2014, 01:58:24 PM »
Also, who would say the "the truth is the truth...." part. That's a very MP-ish thing.
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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2014, 02:01:56 PM »
MP has played Repentance with Flying Colors (without the second half, I think?) and the song is obviously more important to him, so I can't see DT bothering to do it.

Offline Sir Walrus Cauliflower

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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2014, 02:10:30 PM »
MP has played Repentance with Flying Colors (without the second half, I think?) and the song is obviously more important to him, so I can't see DT bothering to do it.

DT and Mikael Akerfeldt have played it together too... I thought it was an interesting song choice to play as a collaboration.
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Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2014, 02:41:39 PM »
I believe Jordan has said that "nothing" is off limits.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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