Author Topic: DT's drum sound evolution  (Read 10014 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1898
  • Gender: Male
DT's drum sound evolution
« on: May 05, 2014, 05:19:22 AM »
Being a drummer myself, one of the things that drew me to DT was their huge, emblematic drum sound. But what exactly is their signature drum sound and how did it come to be?


It's quite an uncommon feat to find your signature sound on the debut album (out of all the bands I listen to, only ELP managed to pull that off) and the infamously bad production on When Dream and Day Unite hinders that cause even more. MP said that some of his cymbals at the time were really cheap and, indeed, the china at the the beginning of Only a Matter of Time is by far the worst sounding cymbal I've ever heard on a studio recording.

Things drastically improved with Images & Words, it's still one of my favorite DT albums production- and otherwise. As for the drum sound, the snare and the kick were triggered, giving it a very unique, atypical sound. David Prater, the producer claimed that the rookie MP was unable to keep his hits constant and the drumming sounded like a mess, thus he had to trigger it. I have a hard time swallowing that explanation, but I don't mind it too much, the triggered drums enhance the album's unique atmosphere even if MP himself hates them. They replaced the triggered samples on the Greatest hit... release with sounds that resemble a real kit and are closer to MP's taste, but it flat-out doesn't work. The toms weren't triggered, but they have plenty of tone and ring compared to the deeper, more muffled tone which would come later on, thus I think we're still pretty far from the typical DT sound.

The drum sound on Awake is outstanding. Everything is clean, crisp and sharp. The kick has the perfect balance of attack and power and plenty of both (it rattles my chest like nothing else when I crank the volume up). It's still a pretty classic sounding kick and would change quite a lot later on. The snare, for me, is an acquired taste. It obviously sounds a lot more organic than on I&W, it's powerful and it cuts, but it's a bit dry and the decay at the end is completely and obviously eliminated, giving it a bit of an artificial flavor. Same can be said about the toms. Overall, the kick and the cymbals slay, the rest is so-so. A Change of Seasons sounds similar in character, everything is a bit weaker and thinner, but it sounds great nevertheless. The snare and the toms are somewhat warmer, with a more natural sounding tone.

In my view, Falling Into Infinity marks the point when Mike Portnoy found the his signature drum sound and, with a few alterations over the years (like dampening and fattening his snare and tom sound), stuck with it for the rest of his tenure with DT. The kick got a lot more attack, with that typical clicky sound that can be heard most prominently on Live Scenes, but also on OAILT, LTE 1&2, SFAM and SDOIT. This is the classic MP bass drum sound, which, albeit, changed a little in character, remained essentially the same on ToT, SC and BC&SL. MP's snare sound was the by far the most organic on FII, with plenty of ringing, rich overtones, lots of decay. I love it! Overall, my all-time favorite DT drum sound.

An interesting change occurred on Octavarium and Score. MP's kick drum sound was mostly stripped of that powerful, clicky attack sound and instead pulsated, so you could rather feel it than hear it. Perhaps MP wanted to experiment and thought that this classic approach complemented the sound of Octavarium more. I would agree. The kick drum came back with a vengeance though on Systematic Chaos, louder, more powerful and with more attack than ever before. This trend would continue on BC&SL.

The next big -and anticipated- change in DT's drum sound would come with the arrival of Mike Mangini. Unfortunately, his drum sound on A Dramatic Turn of Events was underwhelming. While the tooone was OK, the drums were low in the mix and thin sounding (by DT standards, of course). The overall character of the sound, while noticeably different, was still reminiscent of the classic MP-DT sound, which many anticipated would change once MM gets full reign.

Which it did, as it became apparent with the release of Dream Theater. Like a large chunk of the fan base, I was a bit disappointed with the new sound as well at first, but it grew on me a lot since. One thing it has got going for it is that it's completely unique and defines the mood of the album, much like with Images & Words. Come to think of it, if I had to describe the drum sound, it's a bit like recreating the I&W sound acoustically (which, in return, makes the whole kit, including the toms, sound electric in a few places). One thing is for certain, this was DT12 exclusive, unique drum sound. It will indubitably change and I can't wait to experience the next step in its evolution.


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Online nikatapi

  • Posts: 1641
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 06:03:34 AM »
Great post Sycsa!

I agree with most of the things you said, i think that I&W has a good sound given the context of the songs, i don't really mind that they are triggered. On Awake, the sound is great, very powerful and one of the best DT drum sounds, i especially like the bass drum sound. It's unique, it's dynamic, it's organic. FII is a further improvement, more groovy and more real, it might be the best overall drum sound that DT have achieved.

SFAM is not that great imo, i think that it lost some of the dynamics and the drums sound a little tiny compared to FII. SDOIT also has a great sound, of course Kevin Shirley did his thing again, this man knew how to get great sounding drums. A little bit of definition is lost because of the compression, but it's sounding great most of the time.
TOT is like a step back in a way, though it is understandable that the sound is more one-dimensional given the metal nature of the album. From Octavarium and forward, i think the sound became worse, Octavarium is a bit blurry overall, SC has the drums so loud that it's actually annoying, and the sound of the bass drums is not so full and more like a punch to the ear drums. BC&SL is a bit of an improvement, but still worse than the pre-TOT albums i think.

Unfortunately, with the arrival of MM the drum sound became much worse, not only in volume, but in quality as well, and this is the case especially for the cymbals. The hihats, china cymbals and ride cymbals, all sound flat, they don't cut through the guitars and they sound like very cheap cymbals overall, with little ring and distinctive sound. The toms sound fine, both in ADTOE and in DT, the bass drums sound a little weak on ADTOE, especially on the fast double bass parts, while the snare is not that great on DT.

Hopefully the next album will have a good drum sound, i was hoping that Richard Chycki would make the drums sound powerful like he did on James' Elements of Persuation, unfortunately i was a little disappointed, especially with the cymbals once again. I don't know if it's a recording problem or a problem of quality of the gear, but the cymbals need to improve, because Mike does some sick ambidextrous stuff that many times goes unnoticed because the cymbals don't cut through.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 10:50:08 AM »
The trouble with DT12's drum sound is that you have to listen to the whole album to acclimatise to it.

Then when you go away for a while and listen to some earlier DT albums - when you come back to DT12 -

- you have to learn to like the drum sound all over again.

Try listening to all of Black Clouds & Silver Linings or Octavarium then stick on Along For The Ride on...

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 04:58:57 PM »
See, a lot of people talk about MM having a 'thin' or 'low' mix. Which is a fair enough statement, especially relative to the booming drums of MP that we were used to. But I think ADTOE still has a lot of impressive yet subtle cymbal work, perhaps moreso than the loud tom fills that we're more familiar with. And overall cymbals are less noticeable, they're the glue that hold the more prominent sounds (snare/kick) of a rhythm together. Luna Park actually brings out the best in the drums for ADTOE songs. The actual rhythms are fantastic, and I still find myself appreciating new bits of a MM drum passage that I hadn't heard or digested properly. Only problem, is that it's far less in your face. Which admittedly, can feel a bit abrupt because the drumming was an appeal for DT back when I first heard them, as they were in your face, and they stood out above a lot of other drummers. Train of Thought and Six Degrees remind me of the golden MP days. As for DT12, I don't see what the issue is anymore. Any of the 'flatness' or 'quietness' from ADTOE is no longer an issue, the drums are powerful, the cymbals are dynamic, the mix is balanced. The only issue I could imagine about DT12 drums is that it's not the same as MPs drum tone. I think they sound amazing. The Enemy Inside is full of impressive drumming, and those fills in Illumination Theory? Some of the best drumming I've ever heard!

Offline Tis BOOLsheet

  • Banned
  • Posts: 1112
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2014, 05:37:36 PM »
To respond to your prompt...

It's obvious that sonically speaking, DT's drum sound hit rock bottom on DT12. I know of no one with a modicum of understanding and appreciation for the drums and sonic engineering who has come forward to say the drums on DT sound good. This is the one aspect of the rhythm section I much preferred when MP was in the band.

I would be utterly shocked if the drums on the next DT album sounded like they do on DT12 after the the backlash.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12827
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2014, 05:44:05 PM »
Prepare to be "shocked" then, because the band is not aware of this supposed "backlash" at all.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2014, 05:48:39 PM »
That's the thing though, I think objectively, DT12 has a good drum mix, the production sounds very 'full'. But relatively, it's still different to the drum tone we're used to from MP. It's certainly an improvement over ADTOE, and perhaps some of you will oppose this view, but I think a very large factor here, is that it's just different.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2014, 05:49:56 PM »
I don't dislike it because it's different.

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11205
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2014, 05:50:51 PM »
Prepare to be "shocked" then, because the band is not aware of this supposed "backlash" at all.

Ehhh...  One thing I find weird about DT12 is that I have no idea what the fan consensus is.  So many different opinions about it have been expressed.  But the one thing almost everyone was able to agree on was how much they hated the drum sound.

That said, I don't think the response was strong enough for DT to actually care.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2014, 06:21:17 PM »
I prefer the drum sound on A Dramatic Turn Of Events.

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2014, 06:34:54 PM »
How are you guys listening to DT12 anyway? I use a fairly basic 5 output stereo, 2 sides, 2 surround and a sub. I have the EQ fairly balanced, if anything edged more towards increasing the treble sounds so they don't get drowned out by the mid/low rage sounds (don't like to overdo the bass). And the drums come out crystal clear and sound like they've put a lot of effort into mastering. I've had non DT fans even comment on how intense and crisp the drums sound on DT12. I find headphones can be a bit harder to get a good balance of sound because of frequency loudness, but I don't use very fancy headphones because I wouldn't want to damage them at work (which is the only time I'd not use a stereo). Similar things can be said for ADTOE drums, they actually can come through quite clearly if you play with your EQ settings and then you can actually hear all the subtle cymbalwork. ADTOE sounds like it's got a very 'classic rock' drum tone, which includes a fairly weak kick but I actually like the sound of the snare, where as DT12 sounds like it's tuned a bit lower and more geared for metal. Still not the same tuning as MP (especially the snare) but so it shouldn't be.

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1666
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2014, 06:38:07 PM »
I love the Imperialstar's snare sound. MP used pinstripes on the toms which I do not enjoy.

There is a mild amount of debate over the amount of triggering in I&W. I don't like it, but everything from that album sounds flat when played organically, except on the Imperialstar for some reason.

Awake's snare is choked. Slightly improved on ACoS. I like the Mapex octoban knock-offs.

FII is well-mixed, but I think the drums are too bright for some reason. And I hate the snare's tooone.

Mangini's equipment sounds like crap. He went for the kit that sacrificed sound for weight for some reason.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

  • pr0nman extraordinaire
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11581
  • Gender: Male
  • Hostages love me
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2014, 06:47:04 PM »
One thing about good mixes, is that you can really hear everything as intended when you lower the volume. There are these mathematical curves, the "Fletcher-Munson" curves, that demonstrate that at lower amplitudes we get a more even frequency response (due to the fact that our hearing response is logarithmic in nature). In other words, when you lower the volume you hear everything more clearly (one of the many reasons there are professional mixers that mix in low amplitude levels).

The only thing I really can't digest fully with Mangini's DT12 drum sound is the snare drum. Mix-wise, everything sounds where it should be, the stereo imaging is done quite nicely and the spectral placement of the kit is well done. But the friggin' toooone of the snare drum isn't beautiful at all. Listen to the beginning of The Bigger Picture with a low volume and you'll get what I mean, a dead snare sound with no space at all. I know that the band was perfectly happy with the way DT12 turned out both musically (no complaints there, the album is amazing) and sonically, but hell I can see why people complain about it.
Quote from: TioJorge
MAN FUCK YOU KUJA.
Quote from: hefdaddy42
The Darklord is amazing

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 06:59:54 PM »
I was taught to check a mix by turning the volume way down and anything that was too loud would stick out quite noticeably.

Offline Sacul

  • Spinettapilled
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12167
  • Gender: Male
  • ¿De qué sirvió haber cruzado a nado la mar?
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 07:40:04 PM »
when you lower the volume you hear everything more clearly
I always listen to music at mid-low volumes, and I enjoy quite more than when it's loud. With headphones, of course - my speakers are always rocking :metal. Btw, I'd recommend you guys getting the HDTracks version. Even if you don't have the hardware to play 24-bit music files, you can convert the album to 16-bit flac or mp3. You won't get the extra definition of the 24-bits but you'll have an uncompressed and clearer version of the album :P

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 08:08:36 PM »
HD tracks.. It's a neat idea, but it is only worth it for audiophiles imo. Not to mention paying more for the uncompressed version seems unnecessary when I feel it should have been this version released in the first place. Even still, I've honestly only listened to the HD tracks version once or twice since I got it, and I thought it was great, clearer, more breathing space etc.. But truth is, I use the CD/MP3 files much more because MP3 can go on my ipod for at work and CD for the car. I also don't have a huge problem with the CDs mix. I recognise the loudness of the frequencies but I'm more of the opinion that, for a loud album, it's still very well mixed, you can still hear all the instruments having a place in the music (JM especially). Nothing's drowned out too badly. The only real issue is that it doesn't match the volume of other songs (including other DT songs) so it can seem abrupt when a DT12 track comes on. Nothing a simple volume change won't fix.

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1666
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2014, 08:14:42 PM »
 ??? Converting to CD quality and to AAC for iPod is ridiculously easy.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 08:49:17 PM »
I know, but it feels wrong and kinda pointless converting the Flacs into MP3 again, it's kinda like re-compressing it without considering the output, at least the CD has already been mastered during compression. Fair enough though, maybe I should give it a go and see what the HDtrack conversion sounds like on my ipod. I've almost gone and got SC/BL&SL HD because keyboards tend to be kinda buried on those albums, but considering how much I didn't listen to DT12 HD, I couldn't justify it.

Online nikatapi

  • Posts: 1641
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 02:30:26 AM »
Maybe it's a matter of preference when it comes to the drum sound, as many people like the uber-triggered metal drum sounds on modern albums (and i don't mind them depending on the context), but let's take Along For The Ride as an example. Do you feel like the drum sound fits the song? To me it sticks out that the snare sounds so out of place, and the kick drums are a bit loud especially in some parts.

Unfortunately, and i don't want to sound like an ass, i think that MM might be a mindblowing drummer, but he doesn't know how to get his drums to sound good. He sounds good on some of the Annihilator albums, but it's a more one-sided sound, and on all the other recordings of him (excluding Elements Of Persuation) there are some audible flaws to the sound (or maybe his tooone is not my cup of tea).

Another problem i have with his sound, is the hihat. I was used to MP's tight and crisp sound, he would overuse some tricks but it always sounded good, like in These Walls, or Trial Of Tears for example. To make a comparison, with MM the playing is a bit altered (which is understandable) but the sound is so much worse. It's dull, without clear definition, especially during the tricky parts with the hihat closed.

On the other hand, some ambidextrous stuff he does on songs like Behind The Veil and Along For The Ride is breathtaking, but still i feel like it doesn't grab the attention because of the sound, you really have to focus to hear and appreciate what is played.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 09:12:49 AM »
Maybe it's a matter of preference when it comes to the drum sound, as many people like the uber-triggered metal drum sounds on modern albums (and i don't mind them depending on the context), but let's take Along For The Ride as an example. Do you feel like the drum sound fits the song? To me it sticks out that the snare sounds so out of place, and the kick drums are a bit loud especially in some parts.

I actually thought live the same thing was happening. You got a quiet ballad-y type song, and the snare is still "BAM!" every time. But yeah, on AFTR the drums really stick out. Also a reasonable amount of overplaying on the track.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Marion Crane

  • Posts: 773
  • Gender: Male
  • Smile, you're on MurderTV.
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 09:17:41 AM »
The drum sound on DT12 is one of the main reasons I don't listen to the album.  That, and the sub-par songwriting.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2014, 09:51:38 AM »
I'm not a drummer, but do people here like the tom sound? To me they sound kinda ... like empty Pringles cans being hit.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59477
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 11:12:37 AM »
I'm not a drummer, but do people here like the tom sound? To me they sound kinda ... like empty Pringles cans being hit.

*Pictures Rumbo in a Pringles commercial drumming like a performer in Stomp* :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2014, 12:06:15 PM »
Actually, *this* is what it sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qieLc3BmaMw
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline jakepriest

  • Posts: 3965
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 03:31:46 PM »
I'm not a drummer, but do people here like the tom sound? To me they sound kinda ... like empty Pringles cans being hit.

I think the toms on DT12 sound even worse than the snare. The kick is the only thing that sounds decent imo, but it's way too loud.

Offline OsMosis2259

  • Posts: 2747
  • Gender: Male
  • Pretty Pretty Pretty Good!
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 03:19:17 PM »
The drum sound on DT12 is one of the main reasons I don't listen to the album.  That, and the sub-par songwriting.

Offline tiagodon

  • Posts: 298
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 08:10:30 AM »
The drum production has been really unfair to MM. He really should stand up on the next recording sessions and say "If you dont get my thing right, I will be leaving this band!"

By the way, nice post Sycsa!

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74701
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2014, 08:18:13 AM »
Actually, *this* is what it sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qieLc3BmaMw

Awesome! So his toms sound like the leading brand?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2014, 09:55:43 AM »
The drum production has been really unfair to MM. He really should stand up on the next recording sessions and say "If you dont get my thing right, I will be leaving this band!"

That assumes the drum sound was not to MM's liking. Had this happened on ADTOE I could see that, but given how for that album the drum sound was a lot better, I think it's safe to assume that DT12's drum sound was at least vetted by MM.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2014, 09:58:22 AM »
IMHO, the best drum sound (and best anything sound) in DT's discography is on FII.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2014, 10:00:53 AM »
Oh, without a doubt. It's of course highly ironic that the "most-hated album by the band, production-wise" is almost unanimously agreed to be the best-sounding, whereas the albums where they had complete production control quite often sound rather bad.

EDIT: What I really like about FII's drum sound is that the kit sounds like an actual, physical drum kit. Many of DT albums' drum sounds are so close-mic'ed, compressed, EQ'ed and whatnot, they don't sound like it came from an actual physical device. DT12 of course being a prime example.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 10:07:23 AM by rumborak »
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline tofee35

  • Posts: 411
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2014, 10:23:24 AM »
The drum production has been really unfair to MM. He really should stand up on the next recording sessions and say "If you dont get my thing right, I will be leaving this band!"

That assumes the drum sound was not to MM's liking. Had this happened on ADTOE I could see that, but given how for that album the drum sound was a lot better, I think it's safe to assume that DT12's drum sound was at least vetted by MM.

I remember reading an MM interview in which he commented that the engineer had him de-tune his snare to get that sound. I also found it peculiar that he was quick to point out the drum sound differences between LALP and DT12 on his Facebook. I'm most likely reading too far into though.

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 2875
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 01:06:18 PM »
Maybe I'm the only one here, but I think the drum sound on LALP 5.1 mix is really good. Not terrific or amazing, but really good. IMO the best Mangini's drum sound in DT by far.
And yes, the drum sound on FII is AMAZING  :hefdaddy, one of the best from all cds I've heard, for sure.
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11205
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2014, 01:42:33 PM »
I still find the reaction to DT12's drum sound to be surprising.

There are certainly technical issues.  The cymbals are too compressed.  The snare is a little too dry in a couple places (the big drum fill to open Surrender, Trust, and Passion is the worst offender - the toms boom so epicly and the snare's dryness really stands out).

But I liked what they were going for.  The drums slam so hard.  I like that grenade snare sound a lot.  Other bands do it better, but I like it in DT's music.  I like the lack of overtones because the other instruments have more room in the mix.  It sounds less natural, but the whole album has a very processed sound, which I don't mind at all.  It's generally very clean and very heavy, which is what I want out of a drum sound.

Also, a lot of drum sounds from other albums are being looked at through nostalgia glasses a bit.  Everyone hated the ADTOE drum sound when it came out.  The kicks on that album are still too soft in places and the cymbals are also over-compressed.  The Snare on FII is often too loud (the acoustic part of The Wasteland being particularly bad).  The drums on Awake are 99% perfect, but some times they don't totally pop.  And so on and so on.

I just don't get why the drums on this album attract so much negative attention.  Most of the criticism seems to focus on what the drums are rather than how they work with the music.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41974
  • Gender: Male
Re: DT's drum sound evolution
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2014, 01:56:37 PM »
I don't get the beef with the drum sound on DT12 either.  The one exception is that little fill he does in the middle of the moog solo in Along for the Ride - around 3-18 or so - which sounds very thin and packs no punch whatsoever.  That bugs me every time I listen to that song, but other than that, everything else sounds good to me. *shrugs*