I don't understand all the hate for WDADU

[Cable]

I still would say its got better songs all round the Black Clouds and SC.

Fixed. 

WDADU is middle of the pack, and at times for me reaches beyond it for me. WDADRU really helped me get into the songs. Now, I see what people say about it being the production and writing bringing stuff down, and not necessarily CD's voice. That said, minus JLB's performance, sonically WDADRU is much easier to digest than WDADU (sans bass).

But even though the writing may be immature, and some melodies may fly by, there are so many great ideas on the album that cannot be denied IMO. And I truly enjoy JM having a much larger presence, one that is yet to be repeated. 

[Milzinga]

I'm in the minority, but I actually really like the way Charlie sounds on WDADU, and prefer his versions over almost any live versions with James.

I agree with you. I prefer Charlie to Labrie on pretty much any songs from WDADU.

[mirko_metal_88]

If the writing on WDADU is "immature".....bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or Motorhead are punkrock kids?

i think it's a very mature album for classic metal at the time...odd times, insane basslines and solos, many riffs and many key changes within a single song...there were just a few bands able to do this at the time (and i can talk od the majesty era too, from 85-86) in heavy metal!

[TheGreatPretender]

If the writing on WDADU is "immature".....bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or Motorhead are punkrock kids?

i think it's a very mature album for classic metal at the time...odd times, insane basslines and solos, many riffs and many key changes within a single song...there were just a few bands able to do this at the time (and i can talk od the majesty era too, from 85-86) in heavy metal!

There's more to writing mature music than how good the musicianship is. Sure, it's unquestionable that their musicianship was superior compared to most famous acts of that era, let alone kids their age. But that's not all that makes music sound mature.
It's about taking those amazing, complex pieces, and making them sound cohesive at the same time. I mean, if you ask me, many songs on FII are much less complex than WDAU, but they're unquestionably much more maturely written.

[BlobVanDam]

If the writing on WDADU is "immature".....bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or Motorhead are punkrock kids?

i think it's a very mature album for classic metal at the time...odd times, insane basslines and solos, many riffs and many key changes within a single song...there were just a few bands able to do this at the time (and i can talk od the majesty era too, from 85-86) in heavy metal!

Those things do not indicate musical maturity at all. If anything, they're things the inexperienced just starting out stick in there because they think it's musically impressive to show off. It takes little songwriting experience to do these things, only the chops to play it.
Maturity is in having the restraint to apply techniques and knowledge correctly, and write music that shows an understanding of how these elements fit together to serve the song.

WDADU does not show that. It often struggles to display a basic ability to write a vocal line to fit a vocalist, the individual instruments in the arrangement often clash because everyone is doing their own thing to be flashy, rather than working as a cohesive band unit, and all of those sudden changes make for choppy transitions that hurt the flow of the music. Maturity is not measured in notes per second.

And hey, I agree with TheGreatPretender for once! Let us celebrate before the moment passes!

[TheGreatPretender]

And hey, I agree with TheGreatPretender for once! Let us celebrate before the moment passes!

Yay! A rare feeling indeed!

[?]

WDADU may be amateurish, but the band clearly felt they had something to prove. An album like BC&SL may have been written by a more mature band, but also sounds tired and like it was made on autopilot.

[aprilethereal]

WDADU may be amateurish, but the band clearly felt they had something to prove. An album like BC&SL may have been written by a more mature band, but also sounds tired and like it was made on autopilot.

Agreed

[BlobVanDam]

WDADU may be amateurish, but the band clearly felt they had something to prove. An album like BC&SL may have been written by a more mature band, but also sounds tired and like it was made on autopilot.

I disagree. Whatever they were trying to prove on WDADU, they failed at it. The energy of ANTR got me pumped from the very start of BCASL.
To me ADTOE is their only autopilot album, like they were just going through the motions because they were obligated to release an album. OTBOA is the most lifeless song I've heard from DT. Such a contrast.

[mirko_metal_88]

I think that both BC&SL and ADTOE are "autopilot" album

[Nick]

I feel like I've been saying this for years, but here it is again.

Frankly WDaDU captures an energy and feeling in the band that has never been seen since, and it's something special. There are a lot of great songs on the album, including The Killing Hand, which is an all time favorite of mine. While the production is surely not good, thankfully the songs on that album aren't as slaughtered by it as the ones on Images or Awake would have been. And I am one of the people that generally prefers Charlie on those songs to James. Have always loved the album and feel it is criminally overlooked.

[rumborak]

BTW, I always thought the beginning of Fortune in Lies was very "regal", maybe they had written it with the band name  Majesty in mind, similar to Queen II's "Procession".

[Sketchy]

I really love WDADU, it is perhaps an album which is not as cohesive as most, but it does have a lot of energy and fun to it.

[emtee]

Love it.

[The Holy Tune]

Heard that album pretty late, always stayed away from it for no reason. But appearantly it's a pretty damn cool album. Some songs like A Fortune In Lies, TKH, Afterlife and Status Seeker are great and I like CD's vocals honestly. No need to mention Ytse Jam, one of their best instrumentals.

[rush-signals]

For me I can't stand the production  or Charlie's voice. I never got into any of the songs until I saw or heard them live, then they rocked, finally! 

[rumborak]

Total opposite for me. I listened to all of WDADRU yesterday at work, and James was just very weak during the whole concert. Mind you, Charlie sings at Nicky level there

[TheGreatPretender]

All I know is that I listen to LATM, hearing AFIL and TKH, and I never want to listen to the original versions again after something like that.

[rush-signals]

Exactly! That's what got me into WDADU.  Even at first I wasn't into LATM, then I got into it and was blown away. I mean Bombay Vindaloo and  Another Hand / The Killing Hand, holy shit, those shred and are the best versions to this day!

All I know is that I listen to LATM, hearing AFIL and TKH, and I never want to listen to the original versions again after something like that.

[Lucidity]

I totally understand the criticism towards WDaDU. It sounds pretty awful from a production standpoint, and the vocals are practically unforgivable.

[rumborak]

I was just watching this:
 https://youtu.be/1eEcAoVXsF4

and IMO that live rendition is far better than WDADRU.

[TheGreatPretender]

I was just watching this:
 https://youtu.be/1eEcAoVXsF4

and IMO that live rendition is far better than WDADRU.

Lol, I love that Chris Collins actually commented below that that's not him. 

[jammindude]

I was just watching this:
 https://youtu.be/1eEcAoVXsF4

and IMO that live rendition is far better than WDADRU.

I own this VHS somewhere...  I can't even remember how I originally got ahold of it.   I think Charlie made it available for purchase at some point???   My VHS' are all buried somewhere, so I'd have to dig it out to be sure.

[KevShmev]

I think the songwriting is very good on the debut record. A Fortune in Lies, Only a Matter of Time, Afterlife, Light Fuse and Get Away, etc. are all well-written songs with memorable melodies, nice twists and turns, and great playing (especially for such young guys).  Okay, I get what some mean when they say that some sections are too wordy, almost like they jammed in too many lyrics, but that kind of rapid fire vocal delivery works to the advantage of the song most of the time.  For example, the 2nd verse of Light Fuse and Get Away musically moves at a really fast pace, and having all of those lyrics means that Charlie had to sing them really fast, resulting in a nice synchronization between the music and vocals.

[TheGreatPretender]

Okay, I get what some mean when they say that some sections are too wordy, almost like they jammed in too many lyrics, but that kind of rapid fire vocal delivery works to the advantage of the song most of the time.  For example, the 2nd verse of Light Fuse and Get Away musically moves at a really fast pace, and having all of those lyrics means that Charlie had to sing them really fast, resulting in a nice synchronization between the music and vocals.

But it doesn't work to the advantage of the song. Yes, there is a nice synchronization, but you can't even understand what he's saying. The only thing I could actually make out in that whole verse was "since I lost my sense of innocence", that's it. And when I read the lyrics to the verse, for the first time, I was like, "My god, these are some beautiful words. It's such a shame that they get completely lost in the delivery."

[RaiseTheKnife]

I'll always like WDADU because I discovered at a time when there was very little DT content out there -- only I&W, and I was hungry for more.   So WDADU satisfied my appetite until DT made another album (Awake!!).  In that context, I will always be fond of WDADU.

[Madman Shepherd]

I'm kind of amazed that Dream Theater fans can have a go-to "worst album" and can even rank the bottom 3 or so.  To me, there is no truly bad Dream Theater album.  Without a doubt my least favorite is BC&SL because of the lyrics and as a whole it is probably the least consistent.  Every other one is somewhat on par with each other depending on my mood. 

If pushed, I would probably put WDADU at the bottom but only because of the production, and even though I actually love Charlie's vocals, as a whole it just isn't consistent with the rest of the catalog. 

[philippaopao]

I dream that they would release a remake of WDADU.

[orcus116]

I haven't listened to the album in awhile but to me it's definitely more musically interesting than anything on their last 4 releases.

[Another_Won]

I dream that they would release a remake of WDADU.

Don't know if you know about this:  https://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=21&idcategory=8

It's great.  I use it as my reference for the songs from that album.

[KevShmev]

Okay, I get what some mean when they say that some sections are too wordy, almost like they jammed in too many lyrics, but that kind of rapid fire vocal delivery works to the advantage of the song most of the time.  For example, the 2nd verse of Light Fuse and Get Away musically moves at a really fast pace, and having all of those lyrics means that Charlie had to sing them really fast, resulting in a nice synchronization between the music and vocals.

But it doesn't work to the advantage of the song. Yes, there is a nice synchronization, but you can't even understand what he's saying. The only thing I could actually make out in that whole verse was "since I lost my sense of innocence", that's it. And when I read the lyrics to the verse, for the first time, I was like, "My god, these are some beautiful words. It's such a shame that they get completely lost in the delivery."

So? I can think of many songs I love where I had to look the lyrics up because they weren't easily picked up on, for whatever reasons.  That didn't make the songs any less good.

I'm kind of amazed that Dream Theater fans can have a go-to "worst album" and can even rank the bottom 3 or so.  To me, there is no truly bad Dream Theater album. 

Agreed.  All of my favorite bands' worst albums (Rush, Porcupine Tree, DT and the Flower Kings) are still good.

[TheGreatPretender]

So? I can think of many songs I love where I had to look the lyrics up because they weren't easily picked up on, for whatever reasons.  That didn't make the songs any less good.

Well, that's true. I guess what I meant was that the lyrics were the one truly good aspect of this song, and they get lost in the delivery, meanwhile, nothing else about this song is especially good, so the one redeeming quality it has gets lost in this lackluster attempt at a good song.

[rumborak]

Actually, disregarding for a moment whether one thinks the lyrics fit rhythmically or not, WDADU is lyrically probably in the top 5 of all DT albums. I think on that album they still tried to write interesting, deep lyrics, whereas later they just went for the "let's just write stuff that fits the melody" approach.

[BlobVanDam]

Actually, disregarding for a moment whether one thinks the lyrics fit rhythmically or not, WDADU is lyrically probably in the top 5 of all DT albums. I think on that album they still tried to write interesting, deep lyrics, whereas later they just went for the "let's just write stuff that fits the melody" approach.

Writing lyrics that actually fit a melody is good. WDADU is the perfect example of writing a bunch of words, then shoehorning then to music later, and why it doesn't work.

[rumborak]

There is a middle ground. Granted, in WDADU sometimes you could feel the lyrics were written essentially completely outside the music. But then again, they added a dimension to the songs that has been missing more often than not in later DTmaterial. 
Maybe it's also because 3 1/2 of the songs' lyrics were written by people no longer part of DT. I dunno, I just find them much more interesting than stuff like, say, AROP.