Author Topic: Will there definitely be a second US leg?  (Read 3955 times)

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Offline 2Timer

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Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« on: March 11, 2014, 05:54:00 PM »
I am disappointed beyond belief. My son is 14, I bought us tickets for his first DT show; all he had to do was not get in trouble at school for 2 more weeks. He's been told not to take his ipod to school, but he did today, and got caught with it, so he has detention. Therefore, no concert for him. I don't think he has a clue how much this upsets me.
So I want to tell him to shoot for the next leg, but I want to make sure it's going to happen before I say anything to him.
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Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 08:25:10 PM »
I feel pretty positive in thinking that there will be a second US leg.  DT has histotically done this.  The question is where you are based, because DT may not necessarily come through the same cities on the second leg (such as Seattle as an example). 

Offline Tick

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 05:48:33 AM »
I feel pretty positive in thinking that there will be a second US leg.  DT has histotically done this.  The question is where you are based, because DT may not necessarily come through the same cities on the second leg (such as Seattle as an example).
You shouldn't feel very positive at all. "Historically"...Mike Portnoy was at the helm and he stirred the drink. Its much different now. Less shows, less changes in the set list. Different venues. They have not played Connecticut since Portnoy left the band and that sucks for me!
I would actually be a bit surprised if their was a second U.S. leg. I hope I am wrong, but to me it seems more likely it will not happen than it will.
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Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 07:04:32 AM »
I'd say it's pretty likely. Though, as has been said, it might hit a different set of cities.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 08:20:40 AM »
There has not been an announcement, so the only information we have for sure at this point is that there is only one.  Personally, I think there will be a second.  But until something is announced, that's all we have to go on.

On a side note, for what it's worth, I think the uncertainty makes the discipline more effective.  Personally, I wouldn't promise him anything.  I think the message should be, "You blew it.  You don't get to go.  If there ends up being a second leg, we can revisit the issue again down the road.  If there isn't one, and you don't get to see this tour at all, sorry, but that's your own fault."
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Offline Shadow2222

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 08:35:15 AM »
I'm hoping there is a second leg, although I am seeing them on this upcoming leg. On a slightly different note, while I certainly agree with your punishment for breaking a rule, I did not realize that some schools banned iPods. When I was in high school about 6-7 years ago, we simply weren't allowed to use them in class. We could use them freely at lunch or during study halls.

Was he given detention for having it, or for using it during class? I could see why the rules have changed since an "iPod" could so easily be an iPhone or be used for taking photos of tests, etc.

Sorry to hear about the situation you are put in 2Timer.
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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 10:02:37 AM »
The only time in recent memory DT didn't do 2 US legs was for BC&SL (unless you count the Maiden tour). It's extremely likely.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 10:24:26 AM »
The only time in recent memory DT didn't do 2 US legs was for BC&SL (unless you count the Maiden tour). It's extremely likely.

Yes, this.
Also, JP (or JLB) said that this tour would be going into 2015.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Laughingplace56

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2014, 11:04:19 AM »
The only time in recent memory DT didn't do 2 US legs was for BC&SL (unless you count the Maiden tour). It's extremely likely.

Yes, this.
Also, JP (or JLB) said that this tour would be going into 2015.
Did they say this in an article? Link?

Offline TAC

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 11:14:55 AM »
I don't have time to go through all of the interviews, but a couple of weeks ago, a bunch came out. They were all posted on the DT Side. It may have been James when asked about a solo tour, and he said something like it wouldn't be a possibility until into 2015.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 02:13:28 PM »
The only time in recent memory DT didn't do 2 US legs was for BC&SL (unless you count the Maiden tour). It's extremely likely.

Since I saw DT as an opening act and a headliner during the Maiden tour, I do indeed count it as a second leg.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 02:14:50 PM »
With MP gone, it's certainly more up in the air as to how long the tour will last, and what regions of the world will be included. However, if the Dramatic Tour is any indication, it seems likely that they'll do a second run through North America. But as was mentioned already, there's no guarantee that the same cities will be played (aside from perhaps the big ones, such as Los Angeles, Chicago and New York) nor that they'll be Evening With shows.

Generally, when DT did Evening With tours in the past, they'd do one leg in North America in the Evening With format, and then another leg as part of a package, co-headlining (with Satch in 2002, with Megadeth in 2005) or opening (for Yes in 2004). But again, with MP not directing things, it's hard to say what they'll do until the dates are announced.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline jmasterx

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 02:23:17 PM »
You should take him anyways.

You are introducing a negative stimuli, which does not necessarily cause him to reflect on his actions. In a few years when he will be legal adult, he will be able to go to a DT show even if he behaves poorly. What you want to do rarely succeeds in conditioning behavior because he does not understand WHY what he did was wrong and the reasoning as to why he should not do it again. If you do not take him, he is likely to just get angry and as he gets older, he will rebel. It's a common mistake to use negative reinforcement to educate kids. It is much better to try to explain the reasoning in the hopes of getting them to consciously choose not to repeat the behavior. That's the most effective form of discipline because generally, if the child reasons and concludes that they should not bring an iPod to school for a valid logical reason, then they are highly unlikely to do it again. Otherwise they will just feel that they are treated unfairly and will aspire to rebel and live moments of youth when they get older.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2014, 02:59:18 PM »
You should take him anyways.

You are introducing a negative stimuli, which does not necessarily cause him to reflect on his actions. In a few years when he will be legal adult, he will be able to go to a DT show even if he behaves poorly. What you want to do rarely succeeds in conditioning behavior because he does not understand WHY what he did was wrong and the reasoning as to why he should not do it again. If you do not take him, he is likely to just get angry and as he gets older, he will rebel. It's a common mistake to use negative reinforcement to educate kids. It is much better to try to explain the reasoning in the hopes of getting them to consciously choose not to repeat the behavior. That's the most effective form of discipline because generally, if the child reasons and concludes that they should not bring an iPod to school for a valid logical reason, then they are highly unlikely to do it again. Otherwise they will just feel that they are treated unfairly and will aspire to rebel and live moments of youth when they get older.

While I both agree and disagree with points you have made, it is not our place to tell 2Timer how to parent and disclipine his child. If the thread was in General Discussion and said, "How should I disclipline my child?" there would be no problem with your post.
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Offline jmasterx

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
In that case, as others have said, it isn't guaranteed. Since they are doing a second European leg, I strongly suspect there will be a second NA leg too, just probably in different cities.

Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 05:18:24 PM »
Also, the fact that the headlining shows on the 2nd European Leg are Evening With suggests that IF there's a second American leg then they will be too.

Online Anguyen92

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2014, 05:52:59 PM »
When, specifically, do you guys think they will play in the more rarer areas (Asia, Australia, South America) to play concerts at (if it happens)?

Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2014, 06:04:10 PM »
Any shows in Asia I think will come in May/June. South America in August/ Sept. Not sure where Australia/NZ would fit at the moment.

Offline 2Timer

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2014, 06:10:38 PM »
You should take him anyways.

You are introducing a negative stimuli, which does not necessarily cause him to reflect on his actions. In a few years when he will be legal adult, he will be able to go to a DT show even if he behaves poorly. What you want to do rarely succeeds in conditioning behavior because he does not understand WHY what he did was wrong and the reasoning as to why he should not do it again. If you do not take him, he is likely to just get angry and as he gets older, he will rebel. It's a common mistake to use negative reinforcement to educate kids. It is much better to try to explain the reasoning in the hopes of getting them to consciously choose not to repeat the behavior. That's the most effective form of discipline because generally, if the child reasons and concludes that they should not bring an iPod to school for a valid logical reason, then they are highly unlikely to do it again. Otherwise they will just feel that they are treated unfairly and will aspire to rebel and live moments of youth when they get older.

I really like this post. However, the 'why not take it to school'...just Sunday night I told him about a warning letter that all parents got in the mail last week stating that during the week of achievement tests, there is an actual 'law' against having anything with a camera in his possession in the school. It carries a minimum fine of $750. I just told him this 2 days before he broke the rule!
Bosk, most of me agrees and wants to go the way you mentioned. That was actually my plan the minute he told me about it last night, but I'm looking into different forms of punishment right now. I've already taken the ipod away from him during hours that I can't be around him. I take it to work so he can't take it school, and so on. I've also banned him from the internet and his Xbox 360 for 2 weeks.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. And while Shadow is right in saying no one should tell me how to raise/discipline my child, the way I worded the post was more or less asking for advice to begin with. I love him more than anything, but I don't feel I'm that great of a parent, so I love hearing all kinds of advice. Please don't ever stop gibing it. I appreciate everything you guys took the time to write, especially since I hardly ever come around here anymore. I means a lot to me. Thanks!
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Offline mike099

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2014, 06:12:16 PM »
Hopefully there will be a second leg.  I would say it will probably be in the fall.  They skipped part of the Midwest and all of the southeast and of course Texas for the first leg.  I live in Tennessee, so I am flexible within reason .  We have some great venues in Nashville, but that probably will not happen.  Atlanta is more likely.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2014, 08:32:56 PM »
Any shows in Asia I think will come in May/June. South America in August/ Sept. Not sure where Australia/NZ would fit at the moment.
I'd expect that the shows in Australia and New Zealand would be done on the same leg as the Asian dates, just as they've done on previous tours.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline rickhawk80

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2014, 09:48:54 PM »
I would fully expect a second leg, in part because the first leg is relatively short, but more importantly because they're skipping MAJOR portions of the US on the first leg -- in essence, nothing south of Washington, D.C. and Kansas and east of Mesa, AZ.  I've got buddies moaning in Texas about how they're not coming ANYWHERE near them on this leg.

Online Anguyen92

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2014, 10:16:58 PM »
It's just so weird how bands book shows sometimes.  They got some shows in Mexico, but can't really go up north, in the same leg, to Texas, which has a decent music fanbase.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2014, 05:04:21 AM »
Without re-typing the whole explanation I gave in another thread as to why I personally don't think DT has played the SE portion of the US on Evening With tours in the past and may not do so on upcoming tours, I'll just summarize and say that I think it's largely due to the promoters.

If you want a more detailed explanation, check out this thread, starting with a convo I had with El Barto here:
http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=24446.msg1760647#msg1760647
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline billybobjoe1881

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 08:13:35 PM »
You should take him anyways.

You are introducing a negative stimuli, which does not necessarily cause him to reflect on his actions. In a few years when he will be legal adult, he will be able to go to a DT show even if he behaves poorly. What you want to do rarely succeeds in conditioning behavior because he does not understand WHY what he did was wrong and the reasoning as to why he should not do it again. If you do not take him, he is likely to just get angry and as he gets older, he will rebel. It's a common mistake to use negative reinforcement to educate kids. It is much better to try to explain the reasoning in the hopes of getting them to consciously choose not to repeat the behavior. That's the most effective form of discipline because generally, if the child reasons and concludes that they should not bring an iPod to school for a valid logical reason, then they are highly unlikely to do it again. Otherwise they will just feel that they are treated unfairly and will aspire to rebel and live moments of youth when they get older.

So if I tell my son to clean his room and he can have cake after dinner and he refuses to clean his room he should get cake.  Because he won't understand what he did wrong?  Wouldn't giving him cake, or taking him to the DT concert show him that it's ok to break the rules, because you can get away with it?

Offline Daso

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 09:02:30 PM »
I think that, given the relevance they're giving to this tour and how big the production is and all, there's is quite the chance for a second US leg to happen, especially since no Latin American leg has been announced and they most likely will want to take the show here. Perhaps not Central America this time around (which would be a shame, at least for me since my only chance to see them would be Costa Rica), but I don't think they would skip South America. And it's logistically convenient to do another North American run (if they want to do it, anyways) before doing a Latin American leg.

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2014, 02:01:45 AM »
I think DT will for sure do a second go around.


As to the US, it only has Florida as a leg right now, but if we annex Baja California.....
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Offline jmasterx

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2014, 05:39:39 AM »
You should take him anyways.

You are introducing a negative stimuli, which does not necessarily cause him to reflect on his actions. In a few years when he will be legal adult, he will be able to go to a DT show even if he behaves poorly. What you want to do rarely succeeds in conditioning behavior because he does not understand WHY what he did was wrong and the reasoning as to why he should not do it again. If you do not take him, he is likely to just get angry and as he gets older, he will rebel. It's a common mistake to use negative reinforcement to educate kids. It is much better to try to explain the reasoning in the hopes of getting them to consciously choose not to repeat the behavior. That's the most effective form of discipline because generally, if the child reasons and concludes that they should not bring an iPod to school for a valid logical reason, then they are highly unlikely to do it again. Otherwise they will just feel that they are treated unfairly and will aspire to rebel and live moments of youth when they get older.

So if I tell my son to clean his room and he can have cake after dinner and he refuses to clean his room he should get cake.  Because he won't understand what he did wrong?  Wouldn't giving him cake, or taking him to the DT concert show him that it's ok to break the rules, because you can get away with it?

I would not make those reward-able outcomes to begin with. It boils down to the same sort of conditioning. As an adult, when he will clean his room, he will expect a reward to be given that is completely unrelated to the satisfaction of having a clean room.

The issue with reward-able outcomes is that they are rewarding good behavior with something unrelated.

What can happen is:
Well, I cleaned my room, but no one prepared a destert for me, so I will stop cleaning it in the future.

Rather than:
As dad/mom explained to me, keeping a clean room can:
-Prevent me from tripping on my stuff and hurting myself
-Help me find my stuff faster and therefore waste less time looking for my stuff
-Give me good practice for staying organized now for when I will have no choice but to be organized when I have a job
-Make my room less dusty and prevent me from sneezing from allergies or get sick
-Make me look responsible when I have friends or company over

These are all advantages that should be understandable by a certain age group. There are also very compelling and logical reasons as to why mom and dad should not clean your room for you too.

At least for me, this sort of logical conditioning was very effective for me growing up. I get a serge of dopamine from seeing a clean room as an adult because I associate that with all of the aforementioned positive outcomes directly linked with cleaning my room.

In the same regard, the DT show should not be viewed as a reward-able outcome of behavior (in my model). This will build expectancy that he should receive an unlinked reward as large as going to see a DT show just for not bringing an iPod to school. What will happen is, even if he stops bringing it to school this time, and went to go see DT, he would just start disobeying straight after because there is no longer any incentive not to do so.

This is because the real positive outcomes of obeying the rules have not been explained. The reward-able outcome is no different than if I told you: If you paint my roof, I will bring you to a DT show. That certainly will not lead you to repaint my roof the week after the show will it?

That's the point I am getting at.

Offline Chriss_Myazz

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 06:15:25 AM »
I am disappointed beyond belief. My son is 14, I bought us tickets for his first DT show; all he had to do was not get in trouble at school for 2 more weeks. He's been told not to take his ipod to school, but he did today, and got caught with it, so he has detention. Therefore, no concert for him. I don't think he has a clue how much this upsets me.
So I want to tell him to shoot for the next leg, but I want to make sure it's going to happen before I say anything to him.

From what I understand, and I'm not trying to tell you how to discipline your son, going for the second leg kinda tells him it's not all bad to do what he did.
If my daughter (11 yrs old) would do such a thing, I would have told her she'd have to wait for the next tour all together.
She would have noone to blame but herself.
It may for some be a bit too much, but if my kid knows what the punishment for her actions means... I would wholeheartedly stick by it.

But... I support your actions, as your son is completely different from my kid, and so are you and me... and imho raising a child and being a parent is mostly a grey area, within certain
boundaries ofcourse.

I certainly hope there will be a second leg for you and your boy, and I'll bet he will have the best of times!  ;D

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Offline 2Timer

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 06:46:22 PM »
We worked out some different (and I think more effective) punishments than the concert, so I'm taking him. I want to thank everyone for all of your input. I see everyone's side in this, but part of the reason I chose to take him is for my benefit. I can't wait to see his face when they come out! Providing, of course, he can stay out of trouble until next Thursday. I feel like chaining him to his bed for a week lol.
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Offline calculusforever

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2014, 08:40:08 PM »
So I looked at the dates, and they're in Europe this summer, and they have a date in October in Japan.  Has anyone heard anything about more tour dates for the US, or do you think they will probably take the rest of the year off for the holidays?

Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2014, 08:45:48 PM »
I can't say I could know for sure, but I get the feeling maybe next year?

Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2014, 12:23:51 PM »
Is this gonna throw off their 2-year album schedule since they didn't start the tour until 2014? Will the next album still be 2015?

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2014, 12:29:53 PM »
Never.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Lucien

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Re: Will there definitely be a second US leg?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2014, 02:18:32 PM »
Never.

I think it's a possibility. And honestly, I don't mind. Give them a little time to break a bit from the formula, listen to some other music...
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