Author Topic: The Jazz Thread (Read 110861 times)

kirbywelch92 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2010, 03:16:44 PM »

I can't help but feel intimidated by Jazz, I know nearly nothing about it and yet it is possibly the most definitive and diverse genre of music.

lateralus88 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 19, 2010, 03:18:02 PM »

While I don't know any specific Jazz artists, or all that much about the genre in general, I love smooth jazz. It's just so...soothing.

Fluffy Lothario · « **Reply #37 on:** February 19, 2010, 03:34:28 PM »

Quote from: kirbywelch92 on February 19, 2010, 03:16:44 PM

I can't help but feel intimidated by Jazz, I know nearly nothing about it and yet it is possibly the most definitive and diverse genre of music.

Just don't overthink it, I guess. I mean, yes, jazz is massive, but so is rock, if you're looking at it from the outside with little or no real exposure to it. You can't become an expert on a genre overnight, so just work on an album by album, artist by artist basis. I bought my first jazz albums about five or so years ago, and I still barely have 25-30 albums. I'm starting to pick up now, but with jazz, I tend to really take my time.

reneranucci · « **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2010, 09:04:05 PM »

I didn´t get any answers in the favorite drummer thread so I´ll post my question here:

Quote from: KevShmev on February 18, 2010, 07:40:43 PM

Good answer! Most of the best jazz drummers pretty much kill any and all rock drummers, Peart included

I´ve never understood this. Why is jazz drumming considered very complex and technical? Because what I hear from my jazz records (at least classic jazz) seems very simple, straightforward and repetitive. Fusion is more intricate but to my ears it´s at the same level than some prog rock drummers. So the possiblities are: 1. Classic jazz (Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dave Brubeck, Art Bakley and all that stuff) is not what people refer to when talking about jazz drumming being technical or 2. There is something very complex about jazz drumming that I don´t get, maybe is it too difficult to appreciate the complexity of a guy playing subtlely on a small kit compared to the in-your-face pyrothecnics of NP on his huge kit?

Can anybody enlighten me? I´ve had this question for 5 years and never heard a satisfactory answer.

Nihil-Morari · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:34:46 AM »

I think that it's about the fact that most people don't understand it. Including me, btw. When I hear a goo jazz drummer from my school (conservatory), I appreciate it, but when I compare it to someone who seems to be a great drummer, I don't see a lot of differences. But the fact that people who know music appreciate it that much, makes me appreciate it, although I don't really understand it.

PlaysLikeMyung · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:49:08 AM »

I don't pay close attention to the drumming for the most part, but jazz drumming doesn't seem more complex/intricate/special than any other drumming as far as I can tell

Nihil-Morari · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2010, 09:51:05 AM »

Well, I think the most difficult part is playing along with the bands improvisation. Instead of laying down a 4/4 groove, you are the band leader. You let the band know, by your way of playing when you are changing from the A scheme to the B scheme, or where to put some accents that follows the solo.
It's much more than keeping the tempo, you're the conductor.

That being said, I can't hear the difference between a good jazz drummer and a great one.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2010, 12:42:16 PM »

I think it has to do with intricacies and theory of percussion and it's role in a song, which can be free-flowing and improvised as it goes. It's much different than just hitting the snare on two and four to fill out the song and keep time, which is the basis of all "pop" drumming (yes, even prog and metal).

Not being a jazz expert, that's the way it seems to me. I used to play drums, and I like watching drummers of all styles, but jazz drummers just mystify and captivate me. It's like watching the difference between a child athlete and a professional athlete. The only "pop" style drummers that remotely capture me in the same way as jazz drummers are Virgil Donati, Vinnie Colaiuta, and Carter Beauford.

Maybe someone more Jazzcentric or a better drummer can explain it better.

reneranucci · « **Reply #43 on:** February 21, 2010, 02:57:07 PM »

Thank you very much for the answers, they´re certainly useful, for what I understand is something more subtle what makes jazz drumming more technical.

Nihil-Morari · « **Reply #44 on:** February 21, 2010, 03:02:48 PM »

Definately!

Portrucci · « **Reply #45 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:47:18 PM »

Quote from: Nihil-Morari on February 21, 2010, 03:02:48 PM

Definately!

I always used to misspell Definitely like that

Fluffy Lothario · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:44:28 AM »

I don't even play an instrument, but the way I always figured the jazz drummer thing was that a) a jazz drummer has to, like all jazz musicians, know how to improvise and "feel" his way through a song, which is hard enough when you have an instrument where you can run up and down the scale, but it enters another dimension when you're sitting behind a bunch of cans, and b) as someone said above, he has to do that while simultaneously holding the beat for the rest of the soloists AND not getting in the way of them and their own solos.

Nihil-Morari · « **Reply #47 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:20:00 AM »

Quote from: Portrucci on February 21, 2010, 06:47:18 PM

Quote from: Nihil-Morari on February 21, 2010, 03:02:48 PM
Definately!
I always used to misspell Definitely like that

wow, I didn't even know that definately is the wrong way of spelling.
Thanks;)

Tick · « **Reply #48 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:30:21 AM »

I'm not really into traditional Jazz, but I have always loved stuff like Spyra Gyra. Jay Beckenstein played the sax part on Another Day.(sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread already)

ShadowWalker · « **Reply #49 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:48:33 AM »

No love for the Dave Brubeck Quartet?

I too am in the category of woefully underexposed, but I have been making an effort to expand my jazz horizons. Just this year, I have added Herbie Hancock - Head Hunter and Miles Davis - Kind of Blue to my small collection that consistes of a few Dave Brubeck CDs (Time Out, At Carnagie Hall, Jazz At Oberlin), some Spyro Gyra, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior, Steely Dan, some of the jazz works of Frank Zappa, Preservation Hall Jazz Band and a few others that are escapting me right now. I will be looking back into this thread to get some more ideas on where to go...

MetalManiac666 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:49:00 PM »

I have a best of album of John Coltrane which I really like; any recommendations on where to go from there?

LTE · « **Reply #51 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:09:45 PM »

Started with fusion, and got into trad. jazz.

Still love all of it.

Some of my favorites:

Mahavishnu Orchestra
Return to Forever

(STELLAR musicians in both groups)
Haven't really touched Weather Report, will one day.

Al Di Meola
Allan Holdsworth (breathtaking, hell all of these guys are!)
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Charlie Christian (GREAT jazz licks, underrated)

Pat Martino- Insane story, he was a famous jazz guitarist from his 20s and so on. Around 40 or 50 he had a brain aneurysm and forgot everything. He then RELEARNED everything again, and still makes albums and tours. He's insane, i'd even say hes better after his accident. Crazy thing though, he plays 13 gauge strings, in standard!!!

Pat Metheny

Billy Cobham
Dave Weckl
(both amazing drummers, Cobhams got a more funk-fusion sound and Weckl is got this nice World-Jazz-Fusion-Funk Hybrid thats great.)

John Scofield- another great fusiony guitarist.

I'm not a big fan of that new smooth-vocal jazz either, but Norman Brown is a guitarist who plays sort of the same stuff, just guitar with no vocals, really good chill back music.

Can't forget Wes Montgomery

Here's some youtube clips of some of these guys.

Mahavishnu Orchestra-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujcYw2QTPzM
Return to Forever- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQyNJn1HzvE (From their recent live reunion, GREAT show!, groove starting at 2:00 is killer!!!!)
Al Di Meola- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atz9vzTAUh0 Probably his most rocking song.
Allan Holdsworth- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJF5zB7YcXc His playing style is possibly the most unique i've ever heard
Miles Davis- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui8x9_WEl1g Favorite Track off of KOB
Pat Martino- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql_bHgaQQZE
Billy Cobham- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1QENfrsPCc grooving song
Dave Weckl- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMyYToYwuQ

juice · « **Reply #52 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:01:07 PM »

My friends have a jazz quartet group going and they just released their first album on iTunes and Amazon if you wanna check it out! They're the iQuartet. (yes they, as well as i, are apple fans)

reneranucci · « **Reply #53 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:01:07 PM »

Great list and samples. I know almost all the names and have at least their most single reprsentative work (e.g. RTF´s Romantic Warrior) but I really want to dig more into them. I´ve never heard anything from Holdsworth, Martino, or Scofield, though.

reneranucci · « **Reply #54 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:05:24 PM »

Quote from: MetalManiac666 on February 23, 2010, 08:49:00 PM

I have a best of album of John Coltrane which I really like; any recommendations on where to go from there?

Albums that will probably get mentioned every time:
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
JC - A Love Supreme, My Favorite Things
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out (I strongly recommend this one)
Art Bakley - Moanin

Those are the very classics, I don´t know if that´s what you´re looking for.

Fluffy Lothario · « **Reply #55 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:46:10 AM »

Quote from: LTE on February 23, 2010, 09:09:45 PM

Pat Martino- Insane story, he was a famous jazz guitarist from his 20s and so on. Around 40 or 50 he had a brain aneurysm and forgot everything. He then RELEARNED everything again, and still makes albums and tours. He's insane, i'd even say hes better after his accident. Crazy thing though, he plays 13 gauge strings, in standard!!!

This is like the coolest musician story ever.

LTE · « **Reply #56 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:00:58 AM »

Quote from: Fluffy Lothario on February 24, 2010, 04:46:10 AM

Quote from: LTE on February 23, 2010, 09:09:45 PM
Pat Martino- Insane story, he was a famous jazz guitarist from his 20s and so on. Around 40 or 50 he had a brain aneurysm and forgot everything. He then RELEARNED everything again, and still makes albums and tours. He's insane, i'd even say hes better after his accident. Crazy thing though, he plays 13 gauge strings, in standard!!!
This is like the coolest musician story ever.

I know right?

I just imagine after he learned to like swallow and talk again, his friends and family showed him all of his cds and was like " oh yeah, Pat you were a famous guitarist."

Incredible dedication.

antigoon · « **Reply #57 on:** February 24, 2010, 09:24:24 PM »

Listening to Bill Evans Trio's Sunday At The Village Vanguard

MetalManiac666 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 27, 2010, 09:50:54 PM »

Quote from: reneranucci on February 23, 2010, 11:05:24 PM

Quote from: MetalManiac666 on February 23, 2010, 08:49:00 PM
I have a best of album of John Coltrane which I really like; any recommendations on where to go from there?
Albums that will probably get mentioned every time:
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
JC - A Love Supreme, My Favorite Things
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out (I strongly recommend this one)
Art Bakley - Moanin

Those are the very classics, I don´t know if that´s what you´re looking for.

Thanks, will check them out eventually.

SPNKr · « **Reply #59 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:44:02 PM »

Modal Jazz is a favourite subgenre for me at the moment.

antigoon · « **Reply #60 on:** March 06, 2010, 09:20:01 PM »

I've been getting into some modern gypsy-ish jazz. Frank Vignola is a monster.

dedSurroun · « **Reply #61 on:** March 06, 2010, 11:37:24 PM »

I'm a die-hard jazz fan, so I have to post in this thread.

Some really high-quality albums I've picked up recently, ranging from traditional jazz, through fusion, to world and beyond. Any, and all, of these are solid and should be mandatory listening.

Jason Lindner Now Vs. Now (fusion/rnb/jazz/funk - 2009 album of the year all categories & genres)
Robert Glasper Double Booked (jazz & hip-hop)
Return To Forever Returns (live album from recent world tour)
Chick Corea & John McLaughlin Five Peace Band (jazz/fusion, HOLY SHIT)
Terence Blanchard Flow (modern traditional - yeah, I know, and fucking brilliant)
Kenny Garrett Beyond The Wall (in the spirit of Coltrane, more traditional but damn fine)
Christian McBride Live @ Tonic (fusion/jazz/jam - Terreon Gully on drums is worth listening to alone)
Keith Jarrett Testament (live improvised solo album that tears you apart, in mind and heart)
EST Leucocyte (post-rock jazz, really something else)

reneranucci · « **Reply #62 on:** March 07, 2010, 12:04:54 AM »

Quote from: dedSurroun on March 06, 2010, 11:37:24 PM

Return To Forever Returns (live album from recent world tour)
Chick Corea & John McLaughlin Five Peace Band (jazz/fusion, HOLY SHIT)

I´ve got this two albums, those really impressive all-star line-ups putting a live performance grabbed my attention but... I haven´t had time to listen to it yet.

I was listening to Kenny Burrell last night and I liked him, those guitar + sax leads are awesome.

But once and again I get the impression that the jazz I have is very samey, the structure of the songs is very similar, they all have those mid tempo repeated sax melodies, long piano solos (that are all very similar, or is it in my ears?), then a short bass solo, the drumming is the same in all songs. I don´t want to sound too simplistic but I don´t know, I´m still looking for more variety.

skydivingninja · « **Reply #63 on:** March 07, 2010, 05:36:24 AM »

Came back to the thread to tell everyone to listen to "Rose Room" by Benny Goodman. It has quickly become one of my favorite swing songs.

reneranucci · « **Reply #64 on:** March 07, 2010, 06:50:27 AM »

Benny Goodman is the man

antigoon · « **Reply #65 on:** March 07, 2010, 11:08:52 AM »

NPR has a great Jazz Profiles program. It's really well done and you can download it as a podcast; I would check it out!

antigoon · « **Reply #66 on:** March 07, 2010, 06:53:29 PM »

I urge you guys to check out Frank Vignola & Tommy Emmanuel's In Between Frets record. It's just Frank and Tommy with acoustic guitars and a bassist. Good shit.

Edit: here's a clip of them playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvNuigQrFM8

dedSurroun · « **Reply #67 on:** March 07, 2010, 09:16:31 PM »

Quote from: reneranucci on March 07, 2010, 12:04:54 AM

I´m still looking for more variety.

Any, or most, of the albums I mentioned above (and you have two of them - awesome) should give you more variety. I understand what you're talking about regarding structure - and yes, most traditional (or, straight-ahead) jazz have similar structure, but there's a ton of jazz out there that's very different.

Checkout https://www.allaboutjazz.com for some ideas, reviews, and so on.

wolfking · « **Reply #68 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:46:39 AM »

I can't believe no one has mentioned the great Frank Gambale. An amazing Aussie fusion jazz guitarist who is one of the fastest sweepers in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkjv5DyZ5pk&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjyqMZKeaPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH8EbI89xgE

Volk9 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 08, 2010, 09:30:01 PM »

Quote from: antigoon on March 07, 2010, 06:53:29 PM

I urge you guys to check out Frank Vignola & Tommy Emmanuel's In Between Frets record. It's just Frank and Tommy with acoustic guitars and a bassist. Good shit.

Edit: here's a clip of them playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvNuigQrFM8

Wow I really liked that! Seem like really cool guys too

News: DreamTheaterForums is a place for people who just don't have the time for music anymore.

Author Topic: The Jazz Thread (Read 110861 times)