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Author Topic: Cosmos.  (Read 7776 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2014, 06:34:58 PM »
I *highly*, HIGHLY suggest to everybody reading the book "Your Inner Fish". It is an incredible read about why the human body is as bizarre and patched-together as it is, i.e. essentially a record of the weird evolutionary twists and turns from fish to homo sapiens.

And amazingly, PBS started a TV version of it just today!

https://www.pbs.org/your-inner-fish/home/
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Offline Nick

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2014, 06:42:52 PM »
That looks really cool, I'm going to look into DVRing that.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2014, 06:49:42 PM »
Seriously, the book is probably the most interesting book I have ever read.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2014, 09:07:22 AM »
Is this satire? I honestly can't tell:

https://nationalreport.net/kansas-black-cosmos-show-controversies/

EDIT: Nevermind. It is.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2014, 02:49:08 PM »
Not being able to immediately tell if that's satire says something about our world.  :lol
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2014, 08:13:56 PM »
Watching the PBS show ("Your Inner Fish ") right now. Very interesting, definitely worth a watch.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2014, 10:40:57 AM »
Probably serious butthurt ensuing from here on, but it just has to be posted in the Cosmos thread:

https://www.funnyordie.com/videos/fa1a1c8fb7/creationist-cosmos
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2014, 11:54:07 AM »
There was so much potential in that video, but I think they held back a lot to keep people from getting butthurt.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2014, 01:55:13 PM »
I am irked that NDT went out of his way to say that evolutionary change is unguided. That is saying something above the warranted inference of the evidence. Science can't establish something like that.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2014, 02:24:31 PM »
Yeaaaaaah, because epistemological considerations about proving negatives really belong in a show that tries to cover basics such as the evolutionary process. The scientific theory of evolution stipulates a random process (mutations) being filtered by external constraints (the environment). Using the word "unguided" as a synonym for "random" is pretty fine for a show like this.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2014, 05:35:22 PM »
"Unguided" has much more metaphysical baggage than "random." The unguidedness of evolution is the pivotal issue in the whole debate between neo-Darwinism and its critics. NDT was clearly taking a jab at religion by emphasizing that evolution is unguided, and a lot of people picked up on it. He should have stuck with "random." (And even that's not really correct.)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:52:40 PM by Ħ »
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2014, 05:39:53 PM »
You might want to abstain from watching that show. I don't think you're the target audience.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM »
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2014, 05:50:08 PM »
And not for nothing, but I'm sure that 95%+ of the shows viewers don't.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2014, 05:52:37 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.

How is that relevant to a science show? Science isn't a majority vote.

Seriously H, what's the point of you watching the show? Only to get pissed at hearing what you don't like?
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Offline Implode

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2014, 05:53:44 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.

Not that this is what I'd do necessarily, but I think that's exactly why NDT is framing the information in this way. He wants those numbers to change.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2014, 06:06:10 PM »
Quote from: rumborak on April 15, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.

How is that relevant to a science show? Science isn't a majority vote.
First, Cosmos is supposed to be a TV show with popular appeal. Sagan's show was inviting to viewers of all types. So the fact that 78% of Americans believe evolution is not unguided is certainly relevant in planning the show's contents. Second, Cosmos is not a scientific enterprise itself, so the fact that science isn't a majority vote isn't really relevant in this situation. Third, the claim that science has somehow shown evolution to be unguided is simply groundless. If you want to say evolution is unguided, you have to import philosophical assumptions to your assessment of the evidence. But those assumptions are above the purview of science and so they shouldn't be spewed off by NDT as scientific fact.

Quote from: rumborak on April 15, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Seriously H, what's the point of you watching the show? Only to get pissed at hearing what you don't like?
Er...for entertainment? That's the reason I watch TV. Cosmos with Sagan was a great show, and hypes were had for the new series. But it has been a let-down, partially because of these jabs at religion. Is that sufficient enough reason to be disappointed?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:15:06 PM by Ħ »
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Offline Zook

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2014, 06:14:06 PM »
Quote from: rumborak on April 15, 2014, 10:40:57 AM
Probably serious butthurt ensuing from here on, but it just has to be posted in the Cosmos thread:

https://www.funnyordie.com/videos/fa1a1c8fb7/creationist-cosmos

Amazing.
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Online ariich

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2014, 06:19:23 PM »
Can we please avoid this becoming a debate about religion and keep that sort of discussion to P/R? Thanks.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2014, 06:20:48 PM »
No, we cannot.  :biggrin:
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2014, 06:25:12 PM »
Yeah, back to the actual show.

My criticism with it would be that it's jumping around too much at times. That is, while there's a lot of "ooh, wow" moments, it's hard to sometimes see the thread that ties it all together.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2014, 06:46:54 PM »
As I already mentioned, that's one of my big problems, and they were back at that problem this week. My mind is blown by these types of episodes, but I'd much rather they focus and I come away with some actual understanding, than simply awe.
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #92 on: April 15, 2014, 06:59:55 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.

At one point, the majority of people thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
At one point, the majority of people thought that owning other human beings was an acceptable practice.
At one point, the majority of people thought that discrimination based on ethnicity was morally just.
At one point, the majority of people thought spontaneous generation was real.
At one point, the majority of people thought the Earth was flat.

At no point, does the popularity of a belief relate to how true it is, regardless of the field of study.

Nick, then you should check out Connections.  I think you would enjoy it because the show is about how a series of discoveries are connected.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #93 on: April 15, 2014, 07:05:44 PM »
Quote from: Dr. DTVT on April 15, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
At no point, does the popularity of a belief relate to how true it is, regardless of the field of study.
Has anyone here argued for that? I don't think so.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #94 on: April 15, 2014, 07:08:40 PM »
Quote from: Nick on April 15, 2014, 06:46:54 PM
As I already mentioned, that's one of my big problems, and they were back at that problem this week. My mind is blown by these types of episodes, but I'd much rather they focus and I come away with some actual understanding, than simply awe.

Well, if it gets the public interested in learning science again...

Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: Dr. DTVT on April 15, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
At no point, does the popularity of a belief relate to how true it is, regardless of the field of study.
Has anyone here argued for that? I don't think so.

You basically are - he's responding to your having done so.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #95 on: April 15, 2014, 07:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Super Dude on April 15, 2014, 07:08:40 PM
You basically are - he's responding to your having done so.
I argued that because the majority of the American population rejects unguided evolution, therefore unguided evolution must be false? Where did I argue that?
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2014, 07:12:52 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on April 15, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Me, along with 78% of Americans that think God was involved in the origin of homo sapiens.

And what the good doctor is pointing out is that the majority ain't right all the time.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2014, 07:13:19 PM »
Everyone cool it. If you get this thread locked I'm going to hate you.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2014, 07:15:58 PM »
Yeah, seriously. Cosmos, original and new, are pretty good shows, and ifor once it would be nice to discuss a science show simply on its own merits, and not have it become a P/R.
H, I'm assuming you can still post in P/R. Please start a thread there if you want to delve into those aspects.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #99 on: April 15, 2014, 07:16:42 PM »
Quote from: Chino on April 15, 2014, 07:13:19 PM
Everyone cool it. If you get this thread locked I'm going to hate you.

I live and breathe hate. I'll do my best.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2014, 07:18:14 PM »
Did I say, "...therefore it must be true"? No.

I argued that "the target audience" of Cosmos is pretty much anyone interested in science. Cosmos is supposed to be inviting, not alienating. Therefore, the fact that 78% of Americans don't think evolution was unguided is certainly relevant to the writers of the show.

EDIT: We are talking about Cosmos, the TV show. I am making the point that it is (unfortunately) alienating. Do you think that warrants a P/R thread?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #101 on: April 15, 2014, 07:20:13 PM »
Quote from: Dr. DTVT on April 15, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
Nick, then you should check out Connections.  I think you would enjoy it because the show is about how a series of discoveries are connected.

That sounds cool. Recent show?

EDIT: lol, 1978 :lol Now I want to especially see it.
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2014, 07:47:29 PM »
Connections3 is more recent.  But the information on even the old shows are still good, it just looks dated.
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Offline jasc15

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #103 on: April 16, 2014, 07:10:22 AM »
Quote from: rumborak on April 09, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
I *highly*, HIGHLY suggest to everybody reading the book "Your Inner Fish". It is an incredible read about why the human body is as bizarre and patched-together as it is, i.e. essentially a record of the weird evolutionary twists and turns from fish to homo sapiens.

And amazingly, PBS started a TV version of it just today!

https://www.pbs.org/your-inner-fish/home/
I stumbled on that page on the PBS site the other day, and plan on watching soon.  Glad to hear a good review on it.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Cosmos.
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2014, 07:59:31 AM »
So I didn't watch last night's episode, and never got around to finishing the one from last week. I'm kind of over this show. Let me tell you though, I stumbled across an NDT special on Netflix called The Inexplicable Universe. It's six segments, each thirty minutes a piece. I've watched it twice now. I highly recommend.
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