NFL thread 2014 v. Frankford Yellow Jackets Lay the Pipe on the Dayton Triangles

[Perpetual Change]

I agree that this won't solve the problem, but saying it is borderline racist?  C'mon, let's be serious.  It is not about white people telling black people what they can and cannot say, especially since the rule would be about anyone - black, white, hispanic, etc. - saying it

The reason the word isn't offensive to many black people is because black people have taken the racist meaning and power away from the word. Even if the rule is for everyone, taking the word away from the people who've flipped it is the same thing as reasserting power over the word's usage. The reason you can't take the word away from the group is the same reason no-one outside the group should say it: because doing so reasserts the oppressive power of the word.

CrimsonSunrise's post about it was really good, especially when looking at it from a HR point of view.  In this day and age, when so many look to be offended by anything, why not do everything we can to get people to not say a word almost everyone considers vile?

Where are you getting that impression? It seems to me that the majority of players on the field in fact do not consider it vile at all. In fact, I imagine most of society doesn't consider it vile - when used properly. The thing is, like I was saying above, it's only not vile when it's being used correctly. But once you have people using it in a hateful way, or people from outside the group trying to get those within the group to stop using it, it becomes vile.

[KevShmev]

What does being a Southerner have to do with it?

[KevShmev]

When used properly?  See, that is the problem.  The word, when not  "used properly," to use your term, sounds awful, vile and racist as hell, and since it is completely arbitrary as far as when it is used properly and when it is not, wouldn't the best solution be for no one to use it? 

Imagine being a teenager nowadays and hearing the n-word in movies everywhere and in rap songs all over the place. You are gonna grow up thinking it is okay to say that word.  And then, oops, you use it in a situation where other people deem it completely inappropriate, and suddenly you are racist, when you were simply using a word that music and film told you was okay to say.  That is why it is a slippery slope: the rules seemingly change every four seconds as to when it is okay and not okay to say it, so the best thing is just to not say it all. 

[Perpetual Change]

Imagine being a teenager nowadays and hearing the n-word in movies everywhere and in rap songs all over the place. You are gonna grow up thinking it is okay to say that word.  And then, oops, you use it in a situation where other people deem it completely inappropriate, and suddenly you are racist, when you were simply using a word that music and film told you was okay to say.  That is why it is a slippery slope: the rules seemingly change every four seconds as to when it is okay and not okay to say it, so the best thing is just to not say it all.

I don't really have to imagine it, because it was already like that when I was a teenager a decade ago, and what you're describing was already going full-force.

I see where you're coming from, but in the end, the rule isn't going to help. Maybe the double standard will disappear eventually - but you're never going to stop people from using it off the field. And if it's just about holding players to professional standards, I have to agree with Barto that this is all about PR. The language use wasn't even what bothered me about the Icognito think, but more the general lifestyle and attitude about everything.

[KevShmev]

Okay, so we are in agreement on that , but my hope was that maybe just talk of this rule would open up some eyes and get people to wonder if they really should be using the word, but instead there is now a backlash from many in the black community who are digging their heels in and saying, "No one is gonna tell me how to talk."  It's disappointing, is all.  This is an issue that could and should break down some race barriers - because, let's face it, there are still many out there - but it's almost having the opposite effect.

Also, I almost started a thread about this in P/R yesterday, because I thought it would be more appropriate there.

[El Barto]

What does being a Southerner have to do with it?

You don't think a Northerner and a Southerner both born in 1950 have differing views on what's reasonable racial terminology?

[dparrott]

The new Bucs uni uses a font inconsistent with the branding.  A digital font for a team name with 17th century origins?   That was not well thought out.

[KevShmev]

What does being a Southerner have to do with it?

You don't think a Northerner and a Southerner both born in 1950 have differing views on what's reasonable racial terminology?

Probably.  But, in what way, in your opinion?

[CrimsonSunrise]

The new Bucs uni uses a font inconsistent with the branding.  A digital font for a team name with 17th century origins?   That was not well thought out.

agreed... they are horrendous, especially the numbers.  That being said... on the ESPN poll being run folks seem to like them...

They have a number font that doesn't match in the slightest way with any other team.  Too big of a leap in my book, and in the wrong direction.

[dparrott]

  seriously.

[bosk1]

[ReaPsTA]

 

[antigoon]

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during the design meetings for that atrocity

[ReaPsTA]

Nothing about it makes sense.  It feels like a piece of concept art that leaked and they just decided to go with it.

[bosk1]

Lots of discussion in this part of the country about Kaepernick's countract.  Steven A. even weighed in on it.  Part of the discussion is what the top 5 highest paid QB's out there are making under their current contracts.  Here is the data:

1.  Jay Cutler:  7 years, 126.7M total ($54M guaranteed)
2.  Joe Flacco:  6 years, $120.6M total ($51M guaranteed)
3.  Aaron Rodgers:  5 years, $110M total ($55M guaranteed)
4.  Tony Romo:  6 years, $108M total ($55M guaranteed)
5.  Matt Ryan:  5 years, $103.75M total ($59M guaranteed)

If you break it down by year, each of these guys stands to make $18M-$21M per year.  And after Cutler got his, the question is:  Should Kaepernick get a contract in the $18M-$21M per year range?

As both a 49er fan and a Kaepernick fan, I have very mixed feelings and am not sure to answer that.  If you asked me that question in isolation and the only data you gave me was Flacco's contract and Rodgers' contract, my answer would be "no."  I love the guy.  I think he's talented.  He has already taken the team great places, and is only getting started.  But Flacco is a veteran and has taken his team on to a Lombardy trophy, not to mention the fact that he is way overpaid.  Rodgers also is a vet, has a rink, and is one of the elite QBs in the league.  No way Kaep should get paid quite what those guys get paid, at least, not yet. 

But then you throw the others into the equation.  Should Kaepernick make at least as much as Cutler, Romo, and Ryan?  In the abstract, absolutely.  He has more playoff wins in 2 years than all three of them combined, and has a record of 21-8.  Yes, he had a great team behind him that he could not have done those things without.  But by the same token, I don't think Romo, Cutler, or Ryan takes this same team to 21-8 and gets to the Superbowl and then the NFC championship, and comes within a score of winning each of those. 

Overall, my gut tells me that that kind of money just feel like too much for such a young QB.  On the other hand, when comparing to Cutler, Romo, and Ryan, he has already accomplished more than them and should be getting paid comparably.  I honestly don't know what the answer is or should be.

[KevShmev]

No, his team has accomplished more than their teams have.  I agree that Kaepernick should make as much as Cutler, but Romo or Ryan?  No way.  Those guys are way more accomplished (when looking at them as players, not team playoff wins) and better than Kaepernick at this point.  But that stupid Cutler contract is gonna be an albatross for a lot of teams now, as a lot of middle of the road QBs are now gonna wanna big bucks, because, hey, if an average starter like Cutler can get a contract like that, why can't I?

[bosk1]

but Romo or Ryan?  No way.  Those guys are way more accomplished (when looking at them as players, not team playoff wins) and better than Kaepernick at this point. 

How so? 

[KevShmev]

Year after year of consistently very good/great play by both.  Even their "down" years (like Ryan's 2013 or Romo 2012) were still pretty darn good.

[Jamesman42]

AP wants Vick on the Vikings.

[ReaPsTA]

AP wants Vick on the Vikings.

He'll be disappointed.  I think Vick was unfairly ragged on while he was an Eagle, but outside the 2010 season he never showed he had what it takes to make it to the promised land.

[rickhawk80]

News from NOLA today is that the Saints are willing to entertain trade offers for Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas and Lance Moore.  I'm horrified -- it's not like the offense is in a rebuilding year.  Why dumping so much talent??  Sproles would be the toughest loss....   

[Tom Bombadil]

News from NOLA today is that the Saints are willing to entertain trade offers for Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas and Lance Moore.  I'm horrified -- it's not like the offense is in a rebuilding year.  Why dumping so much talent??  Sproles would be the toughest loss....   

I've heard it stems from their not-so-good salary cap situation. Especially if they're gonna shell out a huge contract for Jimmy Graham. I think the Saints could do fine without them too. Moore was injured almost all of last year, and if Mark Ingram plays like he did against Philly then he could be a solid starter. Sproles is a key part of their offense though. Losing him would hurt.

[black_biff_stadler]

News from NOLA today is that the Saints are willing to entertain trade offers for Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas and Lance Moore.  I'm horrified -- it's not like the offense is in a rebuilding year.  Why dumping so much talent??  Sproles would be the toughest loss....   

Yep. Given the depth of our offense and Brees' exceptional talent, there is no universe where Graham is worth committing running back suicide by getting rid of the most versatile RB in the league, Sproles, and the best screen pass executor in the league, Thomas. I really hope they have such a shitty outing with this venture that they back out of it and retain both while playing chicken with Graham and hoping we can keep him with whatever we can reasonably afford to pay him. He's awesome but those two or three games where he disappeared last year make me too scared to safely assume it was more to blame on the foot injury he was playing through than teams just effectively clipping his wings.

I've heard it stems from their not-so-good salary cap situation. Especially if they're gonna shell out a huge contract for Jimmy Graham. I think the Saints could do fine without them too. Moore was injured almost all of last year, and if Mark Ingram plays like he did against Philly then he could be a solid starter. Sproles is a key part of their offense though. Losing him would hurt.

Ingram's had 3 breakout games in his entire time here. There's just no sane rationale for gambling on him while chopping our dick off in the RB screen game since MI has been nothing short of terrible at it.

[El Barto]

No, his team has accomplished more than their teams have.  I agree that Kaepernick should make as much as Cutler, but Romo or Ryan?  No way.  Those guys are way more accomplished (when looking at them as players, not team playoff wins) and better than Kaepernick at this point.  But that stupid Cutler contract is gonna be an albatross for a lot of teams now, as a lot of middle of the road QBs are now gonna wanna big bucks, because, hey, if an average starter like Cutler can get a contract like that, why can't I?

Agreed on all points, but I'd add that I wouldn't want to be signing Kaepernick to a 5-7 contract, either. To be honest, I'd consider this a make or break year for the entire team (and I think they're in for a letdown, but that's something of a hunch) and if the rest of the team falters then we'll see what Kaepernick is really worth. From what I've seen he's looking for 20+/year, which would be well above any of the elite group (behind only Cutler and Eli) and he's happy to play this season cheap to explore the FA market next year. Were it me, I'd take that cheap year as a continuation of his tryout and if it works out this year then pay him fairly. If he wants to bolt for an extra 1.2/year, so be it; selfish bastard.

And I had no idea about Cutler's contract, but your'e right. Half the QB's in the league can lay claim to deserving more than Cutler.

[ReaPsTA]

The Cutler contract is an inexplicable disaster.

[ReaPsTA]

ESPN says the Saints will release Sproles if they can't trade him.

That's a fake story, right?  No way they can be that dumb.

[Dark Castle]

Nope lol

Lance Moore was cut too, although I nothing about how good a player he is, just the fact that he was cut from the Saints as well.

[Jamesman42]

Lance Moore's Hingle McCringleberry touchdown dance in a Saints uniform was so awesome.

[rickhawk80]

ESPN says the Saints will release Sproles if they can't trade him.

That's a fake story, right?  No way they can be that dumb.

I wish it was fake ... but it's not.     can't believe they released Sproles.  This is gonna hurt....

[black_biff_stadler]

I have no fucking idea what the Saints' front office has been smoking. This is deplorable.

[jammindude]

I thought I just recently heard that Graham was possibly on the auction block as well.   Is that true?

[Dark Castle]

No, he got the franchise tag, and part of the reason that the Saints have to make space, even though he's not happy with the players being cut. I find that kind of funny.

[jingle.boy]

No, he got the franchise tag, and part of the reason that the Saints have to make space, even though he's not happy with the players being cut. I find that kind of funny.

I find it ironic, and he's got no one to blame but his own greed.  I'm not saying he's a greedy person, but clearly if the Saints have to cut other salary to pay his, he places more importance on his salary than keeping those teammates.

I never really followed the contracts, so imagine my shock to see Cutler and Romo with that kind of money.  I disagree with the notion that Romo is a top tier QB.  He's had moments of excellence, but I wouldn't say he's any better than Cutler.  While I don't like Flacco, and think he's over-rated, other than this year, the results speak for themselves.  Ryan is severely overpaid too.

But, that's shrewd negotiating on all their parts... get the contract after you have your best year.  Teams are dumb that way... assuming the players will always perform at (or at least near) that level.

[King Postwhore]

I've always wondered if Jerry Jones stayed out of the football operations in Dallas and their had a good GM how much better would they and Romo Be?  Sometimes amassing talent don't equate to wins.

Though in the Pats D, I'd love for them to spend the money for one and get Revis.  That and one, speedy outside receiver is the 2 most glaring needs.

[ReaPsTA]

I find it ironic, and he's got no one to blame but his own greed.  I'm not saying he's a greedy person, but clearly if the Saints have to cut other salary to pay his, he places more importance on his salary than keeping those teammates.

The attitude of players is that their careers are too short and too uncertain to pass up money.  What if Cutler shattered his knee the first game of next season?  He wouldn't be regretting that guaranteed 54 million then.

But, that's shrewd negotiating on all their parts... get the contract after you have your best year.  Teams are dumb that way... assuming the players will always perform at (or at least near) that level.

Definitely.  The reality is, agents are professional negotiators and GMs tend to come up through the front office.  What side is going to be naturally better at negotiating?  It's why you see a lot of bad contracts but very few good ones.