NFL thread 2014 v. Frankford Yellow Jackets Lay the Pipe on the Dayton Triangles

[Chino]

Can this guy still play football in other countries?

[cramx3]

Despite the fact that the entire world seems to know her better than she knows herself, the fact remains that she's trying to move on and some of her points are perfectly valid, if poorly expressed.

I would hardly call marrying Mr. Rice AFTER getting cold-cocked by him an attempt to "move on".  She clearly does know herself, and has a diminished sense of self-respect to stay with a person who would/could do something like this.

You might be right, and you might be stunningly off base. Unless you know these people I don't really see yours (or anybody else's) opinions carrying much weight. All I know is that at this point it's her decision to make. However, that sort of misses the point. Regardless of why she remains with him, does this help her? I don't see how this isn't going to be financially devastating and that'll play a huge part in however their situation plays out.

She did make her choice by not pressing charges.  She should have no say in what the NFL does though.  The only problem with the NFL is not doing this immediately and accepting the backlash of the 2 game penalty.  I was always thinking that whatever happened in the elevator could not have been as bad as it seemed since the penalty was so light.  Well the NFL can claim they just saw the video for the first time, but I dont believe that and I think the NFL dropped the ball big time in the first place.  Id like to see Goodell say something along the lines of admitting the NFL screwed this up and thier quick action yesterday is what should have been done in the first place.... and that is all regardless of what the new wife thinks. I can agree that she is upset that its now a big story again when she is trying to move on... I totally get that... but given the circumstances, its too big for the media and fans to let go and not care about and in a way its become personal when you actually see what happened.  Pretty sick stuff. 

[KevShmev]

Can this guy still play football in other countries?

I don't think so.  When you are under contract and suspended, you are not allowed to play elsewhere.  There was talk about Josh Gordon playing in the CFL once his one-year suspension was upheld, but that was quickly squashed.  I am pretty sure it is part of the CBA.

[cramx3]

Can this guy still play football in other countries?

I don't think so.  When you are under contract and suspended, you are not allowed to play elsewhere.  There was talk about Josh Gordon playing in the CFL once his one-year suspension was upheld, but that was quickly squashed.  I am pretty sure it is part of the CBA.

He isnt under contract, he was terminated by the Ravens.  I think he can play somewhere else, although why?  He would be better off taking his money and finding something worthy to invest in and starting a new career with it.  I cant see him in the NFL again.

[El Barto]

Can this guy still play football in other countries?

I don't think so.  When you are under contract and suspended, you are not allowed to play elsewhere.  There was talk about Josh Gordon playing in the CFL once his one-year suspension was upheld, but that was quickly squashed.  I am pretty sure it is part of the CBA.

He isnt under contract, he was terminated by the Ravens.  I think he can play somewhere else, although why?  He would be better off taking his money and finding something worthy to invest in and starting a new career with it.  I cant see him in the NFL again.

Why not do both? Doesn't cost you anything to play in the CFL. But I agree that there's no reason why he couldn't play elsewhere. The league has no hold over him right now.

[cramx3]

Whats the risk/reward for him to play somewhere else?  None of the other football leagues pay money worthy of getting injured with no possibility of going to the NFL.  The guy is a millionaire.  I guess if football was something he really loved and wanted to play competitively regardless of making money, then sure go play in the CFL.  If they said he could come back to the NFL at some point, then I could see him doing that to stay in football shape... but lets also not forget, he was terrible last year.  I think his career was coming close to an end anyway.

[jingle.boy]

I don't see how any CFL team would think it's a good idea to sign him now.  Taking a chance on Ricky Williams back in '06 was way different than this.

[ReaPsTA]

CFL already announced he can't play.

[Dream Team]

A sane view of the situation:


https://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11488363/jason-whitlock-latest-ray-rice-developments

[jammindude]

ARENA LEAGUE! !!!

[ReaPsTA]

If I were an NFL owner, I'd be trying to organize Goodell's firing or forced resignation. 

He's shown, over and over, that he handles major decisions incompetently.  When he started handling player discipline, he was criticized for sentencing that was either overly harsh or comically lax.  When he dealt with the bounty scandal, he imposed harsh sanctions that weren't sufficiently backed up by evidence.  Now, when dealing with something as simple and volatile as a domestic violence incident, he delivered a comically lenient sentencing and tried to make the evidence of Rice's crimes go away.

Even worse, as the above examples show, his decision making gets worse as the stakes get higher.  At some point, the blowback from the NFL's poor handling of concussions will manifest.  It will require an untold amount of grace, intelligent decision making, and resilience from Goodell to guide the league through that situation.  He has shown that he posseses none of those characteristics.  Goodell will find a way to make the obvious wrong decision.  He'll find a way to take a volatile situation and make it explode.  He'll cave and do something thoughtlessly at the worst possible time.

In the early 1900's, Teddy Roosevelt suggested banning the playing of Football.  In the future, the game will face far greater and more publicized concerns about its future.  And Goodell will be the one in charge of navigating that minefield.

The future of Football is at stake.  Goodell must resign or be fired.

[Chino]

Football generates far too much revenue to be at stake.

[jingle.boy]

A sane view of the situation:


https://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11488363/jason-whitlock-latest-ray-rice-developments

excellent article.

[King Postwhore]

If I were an NFL owner, I'd be trying to organize Goodell's firing or forced resignation. 

You're a bit off ReaP.  He is "Their" guy.

https://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2014/09/09/robert-kraft-says-roger-goodell-had-no-knowledge-of-ray-rice-video/

[lonestar]

A sane view of the situation:


https://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11488363/jason-whitlock-latest-ray-rice-developments

excellent article.

Agreed.

[El Barto]

If I were an NFL owner, I'd be trying to organize Goodell's firing or forced resignation. 

He's shown, over and over, that he handles major decisions incompetently.  When he started handling player discipline, he was criticized for sentencing that was either overly harsh or comically lax.  When he dealt with the bounty scandal, he imposed harsh sanctions that weren't sufficiently backed up by evidence.  Now, when dealing with something as simple and volatile as a domestic violence incident, he delivered a comically lenient sentencing and tried to make the evidence of Rice's crimes go away.

Even worse, as the above examples show, his decision making gets worse as the stakes get higher.  At some point, the blowback from the NFL's poor handling of concussions will manifest.  It will require an untold amount of grace, intelligent decision making, and resilience from Goodell to guide the league through that situation.  He has shown that he posseses none of those characteristics.  Goodell will find a way to make the obvious wrong decision.  He'll find a way to take a volatile situation and make it explode.  He'll cave and do something thoughtlessly at the worst possible time.

In the early 1900's, Teddy Roosevelt suggested banning the playing of Football.  In the future, the game will face far greater and more publicized concerns about its future.  And Goodell will be the one in charge of navigating that minefield.

The future of Football is at stake.  Goodell must resign or be fired.

Given the nature of football and American society at the moment, do you really think anybody could do a better job at this point? I really think we're seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to public backlash against a single player (or owner) and these sorts of things are going to continually plague the NFL (and other leagues, and businesses, and politics). Trying to run anything when it's so subject to the fickle whims and half-assed perceptions of The Mob is rapidly becoming a fool's errand.

[ReaPsTA]

You're a bit off ReaP.  He is "Their" guy.

https://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2014/09/09/robert-kraft-says-roger-goodell-had-no-knowledge-of-ray-rice-video/

Wow.  These people are blind.

[El Barto]

NFL Announces New Zero-Tolerance Policy On Videotaped Domestic Violence
Sports News in Brief • Sports • News • ISSUE 50•36 • Sep 9, 2014

NEW YORK—Following public outcry over his mishandling of Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice’s aggravated assault of his then-fiancée, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell announced Tuesday that the league has adopted a new zero-tolerance policy toward all videotaped domestic abuse. “We hold our players to the highest standards both as professional athletes and as people, so any violence toward women that is recorded, authenticated, and then publicly distributed will be met with an automatic suspension and fine,” said Goodell, adding that the new, stricter guidelines reflect the league’s hard-line stance against any spousal abuse that is clearly and irrefutably captured on film. “I can assure you that any member of this league who strikes a woman in front of a live camera will face swift and heavy consequences. I also want to stress that this utterly reprehensible behavior is something we will in no way tolerate as long as the footage is completely uninterrupted and the entirety of the assault takes place within frame.” Goodell went on to clarify that in such cases, the NFL will cooperate fully with local authorities as soon as the league can no longer prevent incriminating evidence from being leaked to the media.

[ReaPsTA]

That's a parody article, right?

[KevShmev]

The NFL (see: the owners) makes more money now that they ever have and their popularity is at an all-time high.  Why would the owners want to fire the commissioner whose watch that has all happen under? 

[TAC]

The NFL (see: the owners) makes more money now that they ever have and their popularity is at an all-time high.  Why would the owners want to fire the commissioner whose watch that has all happen under?

I'm with Reap on this one. I guess it'll come down to if they start losing sponsorships. Goodell could become a flashpoint, if he's not already. People could start backing away from the sport.

[jingle.boy]

That's a parody article, right?

God I hope so.

"We'll tolerate anything that isn't videotaped, but if it's recorded, we have zero tolerance".

[Dr. DTVT]

It's from The Onion.

[Chino]

The NFL (see: the owners) makes more money now that they ever have and their popularity is at an all-time high.  Why would the owners want to fire the commissioner whose watch that has all happen under?

I'm with Reap on this one. I guess it'll come down to if they start losing sponsorships. Goodell could become a flashpoint, if he's not already. People could start backing away from the sport.

Until someone breaks their neck and dies on the field, the fans aren't going to think anything negative about the sport.

[ReaPsTA]

Until someone breaks their neck and dies on the field, the fans aren't going to think anything negative about the sport.

Already happened once.  Will happen again.

[Accelerando]

Just because Fitzgerald doesn't have the quality of QB that other top flight WR's have doesn't make him any less of a receiver.  That's damn fantasy football thinking.  He would be just as good on other teams, but the quality around him would change his production.

Oh don't think that I don't think he isn't a good receiver. He's great! He probably has the best reach and one of the best hands in the league. I guess I was just trying to say is that he hasn't made much production because of Arizona's offense and the quality of QBs that have come through that team since after Kurt Warner retired, and he has been overlooked. Carson Palmer isn't the same as he once was when he was throwing to Chad Johnson. Fitzgerald is that face of that team, the leader, and needs help to win games.

[ReaPsTA]

If Fitzgerald had Manning throwing to him, who knows what he'd do.

[ReaPsTA]

Bills sold for 1.4 billion.

Holy fuck.

[bosk1]

Yes, I think it was.  And rightly or wrongly, it forces the labor arbitration process to sort this out and come up with an ultimate outcome rather than Goodell having to do it.

So what I think you're trying to say is that, if Rice must be allowed to play, let the NFLPA and the arbitrator eat the backlash?

From a pragmatic standpoint, that is the best possible outcome for Goodell.  But it also would probably at least somewhat reduce the backlash because (1) enough time will pass while the process plays out that some people will lose interest, and (2) at least some reasonable minds will be satisfied with the fact that the legal process played out and came to a result rather than the result being driven solely by league or the team.

And that's fine because Goodell is a in no-win situation.  Anything short of an indefinite suspension will result in a ton or public outcry that the penality is not harsh enough.  The labor arbitration process will sort it out and, ultimately, the final consequences will be what they will be.

If the arbitrator rules in favor of a Rice suspension, you could open a bad Pandoras box.  The NFLPA could start appealing, say, drug suspensions and then go the arbitrator and say "the CBA lays out these penalties for drug use, but prior arbitration shows that these words don't actually mean anything."  A big part of why meaningful law matters is that it prevents time and money from being wasted arguing about it.  It prevents instability.

Not likely,  The rule on domestic abuse, as I understand it, is very fluid.  It is not a bright line 2 game suspension.  It was a recommended 2 game minimum, as I understand it, with discretion for a more severe penalty.  So anything from 2 games to indefinite suspension was on the table.  I believe the drug policy suspension rules are more lock-step.  I do not see the problem.

And for better or for worse, "meaningful law" does NOT have the goal of wasting time or money getting to a result.  The legal process, including the legislative aspect of it that makes the laws in the first place, creates an inherently time-consuming (and, by extension, money consuming) process with the end goal of getting a just result.  Consumption of time and money is a built-in consequence.

Of course, if there truly is credible evidence that the NFL had the tape and sat on it, Goodell's motives will have been shown to be the worst, so it will all be for naught in terms of him saving any amount of face.  However, with respect to coming up with the "right" outcome with respect to consequences for Rice, it will still likely be the best possible result under the circumstances.

The best possible result is for Rice not to play, but I don't see how the NFL gets there without doing something illegal.

  Why is that?  Suspending him indefinitely is well within the rules, and if it were to go to arbitraiton and an arbitrator upheld that, there is nothing illegal about that situation either.  What are you talking about?

[ReaPsTA]

[whole post]

Wait, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  Unless I understand properly, the commissioner can't extend a player's suspension.  He can only decrease it.  In this case, it seems like he's taking Rice's previous suspension and extending it to an indefinite one, which violates the CBA.  Am I missing something?

[dparrott]

Bills sold for 1.4 billion.

Holy fuck.

Damn it, he's going to keep them there.  L.A. has (had?) plans for two brand new stadiums and no one wants to move here. 

On a lighter note, Seahawks will go undefeated.  Calling it now.

[Dark Castle]

Good news, it would kill me to see them moved to LA(gag) of all places

[El Barto]

[whole post]

Wait, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  Unless I understand properly, the commissioner can't extend a player's suspension.  He can only decrease it.  In this case, it seems like he's taking Rice's previous suspension and extending it to an indefinite one, which violates the CBA.  Am I missing something?

I'm not sure how the new rules on domestic violence fit into the CBA. However, I don't think it matters. I think he's just trying desperately to keep his head above water under rather bizarre and irrational circumstances. And from a practical standpoint Bosk is exactly right. Hell, sentence he to lethal execution. Levy the harshest sanctions you need to save face and let the lawyers and arbitrators sort it out and take all of the flack for whatever fallout there is.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Steve-Bisciottis-Letter-To-Ravens-Fans/ca17b5f3-674f-4fbe-ac4c-d47927eb04ba


Happy that Mr. Bisciotti has addressed this situation. I cannot blame the Ravens for what they did, firstly giving Mr. Rice the benefit of the doubt for as long as they could, then by releasing him promptly after seeing the true severity of the crime. Mr. Rice was one of my all time favorite Ravens, but this goes far beyond football.

[bosk1]

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Steve-Bisciottis-Letter-To-Ravens-Fans/ca17b5f3-674f-4fbe-ac4c-d47927eb04ba


Happy that Mr. Bisciotti has addressed this situation. I cannot blame the Ravens for what they did, firstly giving Mr. Rice the benefit of the doubt for as long as they could, then by releasing him promptly after seeing the true severity of the crime. Mr. Rice was one of my all time favorite Ravens, but this goes far beyond football.

Huh.  I admit that I went into that article skeptical about finding anything that would remotely ring sincere or true, and expecting to find backpedaling.  Whether Bisciotti is sincere or is merely spinning this to cover his backside, I do not know.  But that letter is a very satisfying read that comes across as very genuine and sincere, and I cannot think of a single additional thing he should have said as an owner.