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Offline Ħ

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #210 on: April 10, 2014, 03:49:00 PM »
Okay, do we really care who the divas champion is?  I mean, really? :lol :lol

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that there was major heat between them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zjHtxPew5Os#t=44

That doesn't look like friends to me.

That was part of the work, as they both knew that a Wrestlemania match was a possibility down the line, so they did that to make look like there was real animosity in case the match every came about, which it obviously did.  Those in-the-know have said that they are pals, and Lesnar supposedly rode along with him and Vince when 'Taker was taken to the hospital after the match the other night.

This exactly. It's very likely that Undertaker hand picked Lesnar to beat him at Wrestlemania. I'm sure Vince was content with the streak never being broken, but this may have been something that the Undertaker insisted on, or at least pushed for.
I'm betting it was 100% Taker's decision. And while I'm not happy that the feud was so bad (WWE's fault) and the match was so bad (circumstance's fault with the concussion), I am happy that Taker lost to someone he chose personally. Actually, it's given me a lot of respect for Taker (the man, not the superstar). I never really thought about it, but he seems like a really humble guy. Does his job, does it well, doesn't brag, and is willing to give his legendary streak over to his friend even though he didn't have to. I was also reading a story about how he stuck up for Bret Hart when Hart got screwed by McMahon.

Seems like one of the most respectable guys in the business. :tup IMO, leagues ahead of Bryan. Lesnar vs Taker should have been the main event (providing that they built up the feud properly).
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #211 on: April 10, 2014, 04:50:26 PM »
Well, there were rumors that Undertaker picked him to stop the streak back in 2010, so I'm not that surprised.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #212 on: April 10, 2014, 05:26:27 PM »
Well, there were rumors that Undertaker picked him to stop the streak back in 2010, so I'm not that surprised.

I've heard this as well.

If it's true, and he voiced his opinion prior to that year's Wrestlemania, Vince be like.... well, you got to work the clique 3 more times before we can have this discussion.   ;D

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #213 on: April 11, 2014, 10:02:28 AM »
re: Undertaker. If any fellow wrestler has ever said a bad word about him, I've never heard it.

Sting signs with the WWE.

I only have a vague recollection of watching him from the 80s (NWA?) but I never followed WCW so his career pretty much passed me by.
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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #214 on: April 11, 2014, 10:13:50 AM »
Sting signs with the WWE.

I only have a vague recollection of watching him from the 80s (NWA?) but I never followed WCW so his career pretty much passed me by.

You missed so much then.  His early 90s NWA time was amazing.  He picked up the torch when Flair left for WWF in '92, and carried it all the way to and thru the nWO/Monday Night Wars.  Can't say he's done anything notable since WCW folded... gezuz... 13 years ago now!?  Wow.
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Offline Syzzle

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #215 on: April 11, 2014, 10:18:07 AM »
Referee Chad Patton did not know that The Undertaker would be losing to Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania XXX. He was told Taker was winning but the rule every referee is told is that if the guys don't kick out, you continue the count. Right after the match ended, Lesnar whispered in Taker's ear, "Thank you."

Apparently the decision to end The Streak was finalized on March 31st. Only a few people knew the outcome before WrestleMania Sunday. The group of people that knew were most likely Vince McMahon, Taker, Lesnar, Paul Heyman, Triple H and Stephanie McMahon. None of the agents were aware. The actual script for the show did not have a finish listed but this didn't raise any red flags because that's not unusual for WrestleMania and it wasn't the only match that didn't have a finish listed.

Whether or not The Undertaker is done, Vince was going on the assumption that this was his last match and he could either win or lose. McMahon chose the idea that it's better to lose on your way out. One person close to the situation said Vince talked Taker into losing. Another person, who would also be in the know, described it as Vince making the call and Taker agreeing, and that he wasn’t talked into doing something he didn’t want to do. Losing was not Taker's original decision but he was in on it and never protested the decision. Perhaps, like he thought in 2010, if he was going to lose, maybe he thought Lesnar was the guy to lose to.

There were many people within WWE very unhappy about The Streak ending but couldn't say so publicly.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #216 on: April 11, 2014, 11:37:36 AM »
Sting signs with the WWE.

I only have a vague recollection of watching him from the 80s (NWA?) but I never followed WCW so his career pretty much passed me by.

You missed so much then.  His early 90s NWA time was amazing.  He picked up the torch when Flair left for WWF in '92, and carried it all the way to and thru the nWO/Monday Night Wars. Can't say he's done anything notable since WCW folded... gezuz... 13 years ago now!?  Wow.

Eh, that is a bit of an overstatement. Sting flopped his first two times as world champ - 1990 after beating Flair, and 1992 after beating a departing Luger - which is why he was never given an extended world title run again (all of his world title runs after that were really short).  Yes, he was a fan favorite, and had some great matches, but he was never really the guy you could look at and say, "That is THE guy who can carry our company."   They thought he was gonna be, which is why they wanted the belt on him in '90, but he flopped so badly that they put the belt back on Flair in early '91, something the powers-that-be didn't want to do again.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #217 on: April 11, 2014, 01:49:03 PM »
Referee Chad Patton did not know that The Undertaker would be losing to Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania XXX. He was told Taker was winning but the rule every referee is told is that if the guys don't kick out, you continue the count. Right after the match ended, Lesnar whispered in Taker's ear, "Thank you."

Apparently the decision to end The Streak was finalized on March 31st. Only a few people knew the outcome before WrestleMania Sunday. The group of people that knew were most likely Vince McMahon, Taker, Lesnar, Paul Heyman, Triple H and Stephanie McMahon. None of the agents were aware. The actual script for the show did not have a finish listed but this didn't raise any red flags because that's not unusual for WrestleMania and it wasn't the only match that didn't have a finish listed.

Whether or not The Undertaker is done, Vince was going on the assumption that this was his last match and he could either win or lose. McMahon chose the idea that it's better to lose on your way out. One person close to the situation said Vince talked Taker into losing. Another person, who would also be in the know, described it as Vince making the call and Taker agreeing, and that he wasn’t talked into doing something he didn’t want to do. Losing was not Taker's original decision but he was in on it and never protested the decision. Perhaps, like he thought in 2010, if he was going to lose, maybe he thought Lesnar was the guy to lose to.

There were many people within WWE very unhappy about The Streak ending but couldn't say so publicly.

https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/468463-who-knew-about-the-streak-ending



Fixed.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #218 on: April 11, 2014, 02:31:26 PM »

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #219 on: April 11, 2014, 03:08:57 PM »
Sting signs with the WWE.

I only have a vague recollection of watching him from the 80s (NWA?) but I never followed WCW so his career pretty much passed me by.

You missed so much then.  His early 90s NWA time was amazing.  He picked up the torch when Flair left for WWF in '92, and carried it all the way to and thru the nWO/Monday Night Wars. Can't say he's done anything notable since WCW folded... gezuz... 13 years ago now!?  Wow.

Eh, that is a bit of an overstatement. Sting flopped his first two times as world champ - 1990 after beating Flair, and 1992 after beating a departing Luger - which is why he was never given an extended world title run again (all of his world title runs after that were really short).  Yes, he was a fan favorite, and had some great matches, but he was never really the guy you could look at and say, "That is THE guy who can carry our company."   They thought he was gonna be, which is why they wanted the belt on him in '90, but he flopped so badly that they put the belt back on Flair in early '91, something the powers-that-be didn't want to do again.

So who would you say was 'the guy' (title or not) for the NWA/WCW from '92-'96?  Simmons, Vader?  Roma, Shockmaster  :lol?  Flair, Hogan?  Sting was the only Tier 1 name there the whole time.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #220 on: April 11, 2014, 05:47:35 PM »
I'm a huge Sting fan.  I'm glad he's signed as he deserves a proper send off.

His 45 time limit draw with Ric at the clash is a classic.

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #221 on: April 11, 2014, 06:07:17 PM »
He's got a lot of classics.  That final WCW match with Flair was pretty darn good too.  His tag bouts with Luger in the late 80s were great.  There wasn't a single heel in NWA/WCW that he didn't feud with at some point.

Now the WWE can do a proper DVD on his career.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #222 on: April 11, 2014, 06:37:52 PM »
That is the top reason I always wanted Sting to sign with WWE.  For a DVD, hopefully with a documentary.

I would put him number 2 behind the Naitch for my all time favorite.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #223 on: April 11, 2014, 10:39:04 PM »
Sting signs with the WWE.

I only have a vague recollection of watching him from the 80s (NWA?) but I never followed WCW so his career pretty much passed me by.

You missed so much then.  His early 90s NWA time was amazing.  He picked up the torch when Flair left for WWF in '92, and carried it all the way to and thru the nWO/Monday Night Wars. Can't say he's done anything notable since WCW folded... gezuz... 13 years ago now!?  Wow.

Eh, that is a bit of an overstatement. Sting flopped his first two times as world champ - 1990 after beating Flair, and 1992 after beating a departing Luger - which is why he was never given an extended world title run again (all of his world title runs after that were really short).  Yes, he was a fan favorite, and had some great matches, but he was never really the guy you could look at and say, "That is THE guy who can carry our company."   They thought he was gonna be, which is why they wanted the belt on him in '90, but he flopped so badly that they put the belt back on Flair in early '91, something the powers-that-be didn't want to do again.

So who would you say was 'the guy' (title or not) for the NWA/WCW from '92-'96?  Simmons, Vader?  Roma, Shockmaster  :lol?  Flair, Hogan?  Sting was the only Tier 1 name there the whole time.

There really wasn't someone you would call THE guy in WCW during that time period, although Hogan was the man once he got there.  Sure, Sting was always in the mix, but like I said before, his two flops as champ is why he never got an extended title reign again; he simply wasn't the draw they thought he'd be as the main event guy.  Even during the whole nWo thing, his mystique being that he didn't wrestle for a long time is why he was so highly touted, and even then, he never really got over on Hogan and the nWo.  They expected Sting to dominate the 90s in WCW like Flair did the 80s in the NWA, but he fell way short.  I wouldn't even call him one of the top 5 wrestling stars of the 90s. 

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #224 on: April 11, 2014, 11:59:04 PM »
Absolutely nothing you said about Sting, though, was his fault.

Speaking as a guy who lived in an old NWA territory, Sting was always over, was hugely popular (especially with kids), but always ran into the problem that he was booked, basically, into the grave. His first reign? No one could have drawn with Ole Anderson going with the Black Scorpion crap because it was cheaper to bring in a different jobber every night to wrestle him. Second reign? Bill Watts took over a couple of months into it and decided to put the belt on Ron Simmons, rather than have Sting chase Vader. It's worth noting that, really until Hulk Hogan showed up, WCW was basically still booked like the old NWA, which tended to give heels the long runs with the belt while the faces got the occasional, feel good victory. Sting's short title reigns until the Nitro era were as much a product of how WCW had always been booked. Sting should have beaten Vader for the belt at Starrcade '93 but by then Bischoff had given the book to Flair, who...promptly booked himself as the babyface champion after Sid Vicious got fired after attacking Arn Anderson. Then Hogan turned up in 1994 and that was it for Sting until the NWO feud, which, of course, they promptly fucked up by having Sting basically lose cleanly in a squash to Hogan, only for Bret Hart to restart the match.

Sting should have been the face of the company. As far as the fans were concerned, he was. It wasn't his fault no one who worked for Turner could book him right.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #225 on: April 12, 2014, 05:13:57 AM »

Sting should have been the face of the company. As far as the fans were concerned, he was. It wasn't his fault no one who worked for Turner could book him right.

Agreed.

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #226 on: April 12, 2014, 05:27:06 AM »

Sting should have been the face of the company. As far as the fans were concerned, he was. It wasn't his fault no one who worked for Turner could book him right.

Agreed.

My sentiments exactly.  And while Hogan may have been the face, he didn't show up until '94, while Flair left in '91.  So at least for those three years, Sting was THE top guy carrying NWA/WCW.  He could've/should've been bigger than he was, but he was still 'the guy' (imo).  Also, Hogan didn't have the kind of impact they were expecting, and wasn't the name/draw he was in WWF.  He could've/should've been bigger than he was, but they booked the shit out of him too.

I was just checking wikipedia, and  Wrestemania matches.... seems like someone's having some fun with the entries.  From Wrestlemania XI

The Allied Powers (Lex Luger and John Cena) defeated The Blu Brothers (Jacob and Eli) (with Uncle Zebekiah)
Jim Neidhart defeated Bob Backlund - "I Quit" match with Sheamus as the special guest referee
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #227 on: April 12, 2014, 05:32:46 AM »
Absolutely nothing you said about Sting, though, was his fault.

Speaking as a guy who lived in an old NWA territory, Sting was always over, was hugely popular (especially with kids), but always ran into the problem that he was booked, basically, into the grave. His first reign? No one could have drawn with Ole Anderson going with the Black Scorpion crap because it was cheaper to bring in a different jobber every night to wrestle him. Second reign? Bill Watts took over a couple of months into it and decided to put the belt on Ron Simmons, rather than have Sting chase Vader. It's worth noting that, really until Hulk Hogan showed up, WCW was basically still booked like the old NWA, which tended to give heels the long runs with the belt while the faces got the occasional, feel good victory. Sting's short title reigns until the Nitro era were as much a product of how WCW had always been booked. Sting should have beaten Vader for the belt at Starrcade '93 but by then Bischoff had given the book to Flair, who...promptly booked himself as the babyface champion after Sid Vicious got fired after attacking Arn Anderson. Then Hogan turned up in 1994 and that was it for Sting until the NWO feud, which, of course, they promptly fucked up by having Sting basically lose cleanly in a squash to Hogan, only for Bret Hart to restart the match.

Sting should have been the face of the company. As far as the fans were concerned, he was. It wasn't his fault no one who worked for Turner could book him right.
All of this.  In that organization, the guy pushed as the top face was rarely champ for any length of time, or sometimes even champ at all (see Magnum T.A.).  The storyline revolved around the chase by the hero.  If he accomplished his goal, the chase was over.  So when it happened, he normally wouldn't stay champ for long, so he could start the chase again.

Sure, Flair was champ forever, and deservedly so.  But he was also a heel for 99% of that time.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #228 on: April 12, 2014, 05:54:29 AM »
No shit!  Just looking at the wiki entry for the NWA Heavyweight championship, from '83-'91, the number of days held the title:

Ric Flair- 138
Harley Race- 167
Ric Flair - 118
Harley Race - 2
Ric Flair - 44
Kerry Von Erich - 18
Ric Flair - 793
Dusty Rhodes - 14
Ric Flair - 412
Ron Garvin - 62
Ric Flair - 452
Ricky Steamboat - 76
Ric Flair - 426
Sting - 188
Ric Flair - 69
Tatsumi Fujinami - 59
Ric Flair - 112

Sting was never given the booking chance that Flair was (as hef says... deservedly so for Flair) in the 80s.  In 8 years, face's held the title for about 11 months.  Perhaps that was the nature of territorial wrestling... the heel moves from territory to territory, and local guys step up to challenge him, yet never beat him because they don't have the broader appeal/awareness in other territories?

I remember that Garvin victory... what a steel cage match.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #229 on: April 12, 2014, 06:25:03 AM »
Dusty only held the belt once in that period?  That can't be right.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #230 on: April 12, 2014, 06:31:53 AM »
Dusty only held the belt once in that period?  That can't be right.

It is wiki, so you never know.  There's invariably a lot of week long (or less) title reigns that only a local person would know about.  As I recall, he was always on the chase/hunt as well.  Wasn't he more often in the US Title picture?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #231 on: April 12, 2014, 06:48:30 AM »
Dusty only held the belt once in that period?  That can't be right.

It is wiki, so you never know.  There's invariably a lot of week long (or less) title reigns that only a local person would know about.  As I recall, he was always on the chase/hunt as well.  Wasn't he more often in the US Title picture?
No.  I mean, he may have held it a few times, but he was always feuding with Flair and the Horsemen.  Well, and the Russians.
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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #232 on: April 12, 2014, 07:17:23 AM »
Dusty only held the belt once in that period?  That can't be right.

It is wiki, so you never know.  There's invariably a lot of week long (or less) title reigns that only a local person would know about.  As I recall, he was always on the chase/hunt as well.  Wasn't he more often in the US Title picture?
No.  I mean, he may have held it a few times, but he was always feuding with Flair and the Horsemen.  Well, and the Russians.



Man Dusty (and Magnum until his accident) had a great feud with Koloff (and I don't mean zook  :lol)  I guess because "The Russian Nightmare" was always in the US title scene, I figured that's where Dusty was with all their feuding.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #233 on: April 12, 2014, 08:09:31 AM »
Absolutely nothing you said about Sting, though, was his fault.

Speaking as a guy who lived in an old NWA territory, Sting was always over, was hugely popular (especially with kids), but always ran into the problem that he was booked, basically, into the grave. His first reign? No one could have drawn with Ole Anderson going with the Black Scorpion crap because it was cheaper to bring in a different jobber every night to wrestle him. Second reign? Bill Watts took over a couple of months into it and decided to put the belt on Ron Simmons, rather than have Sting chase Vader. It's worth noting that, really until Hulk Hogan showed up, WCW was basically still booked like the old NWA, which tended to give heels the long runs with the belt while the faces got the occasional, feel good victory. Sting's short title reigns until the Nitro era were as much a product of how WCW had always been booked. Sting should have beaten Vader for the belt at Starrcade '93 but by then Bischoff had given the book to Flair, who...promptly booked himself as the babyface champion after Sid Vicious got fired after attacking Arn Anderson. Then Hogan turned up in 1994 and that was it for Sting until the NWO feud, which, of course, they promptly fucked up by having Sting basically lose cleanly in a squash to Hogan, only for Bret Hart to restart the match.

Sting should have been the face of the company. As far as the fans were concerned, he was. It wasn't his fault no one who worked for Turner could book him right.

Fair points, but some guys simply look better when chasing the belt than when being the champ, and I think Sting was one of those guys. 

No shit!  Just looking at the wiki entry for the NWA Heavyweight championship, from '83-'91, the number of days held the title:

Ric Flair- 138
Harley Race- 167
Ric Flair - 118
Harley Race - 2
Ric Flair - 44
Kerry Von Erich - 18
Ric Flair - 793
Dusty Rhodes - 14
Ric Flair - 412
Ron Garvin - 62
Ric Flair - 452
Ricky Steamboat - 76
Ric Flair - 426
Sting - 188
Ric Flair - 69
Tatsumi Fujinami - 59
Ric Flair - 112

Sting was never given the booking chance that Flair was (as hef says... deservedly so for Flair) in the 80s.  In 8 years, face's held the title for about 11 months.  Perhaps that was the nature of territorial wrestling... the heel moves from territory to territory, and local guys step up to challenge him, yet never beat him because they don't have the broader appeal/awareness in other territories?

I remember that Garvin victory... what a steel cage match.

I don't think is accurate since Flair was a face for around 9 months of his reign from May 1989-July 1990 (he turned face when Funk attacked him right after winning the belt, and didn't turn heel till he and the Horseman threw Sting out of their group in February of the next year).

I see what you are saying, but that could be more of a fact that Flair was so dominant in the 80s, and he was more of a natural heel than face.

Offline masterthes

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #234 on: April 12, 2014, 08:34:09 AM »
What kind of Sting you think we might get when he makes his first appearance?

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2014, 08:36:09 AM »
Fair enough... I couldn't remember which specific run(s) Flair was a face.  The net of it is that he was always a heel at some point in his reign... all of his losses are to faces (except when it was heel-on-heel action with Harley).
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Offline Zook

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #236 on: April 12, 2014, 09:08:44 AM »
What kind of Sting you think we might get when he makes his first appearance?

As far as I know, the only time he's changed his gimmick after becoming the "crow" was when he did that stupid Joker thing in TNA, so I'm betting he shows up in the white face paint and trench coat.

Offline Jaq

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #237 on: April 12, 2014, 10:54:22 AM »

I see what you are saying, but that could be more of a fact that Flair was so dominant in the 80s, and he was more of a natural heel than face.

No, it was how Southern wrestling was booked period. Flair benefited the most from it, but "the face chases the heel" was how you booked wrestling in the south in the 80s. Hell, any promotion with a TV champion put the belt on a heel and had him spend a year holding onto the title by time limit draws. Heel reigns for any title were usually longer by far than corresponding face reigns.

And something worth pointing out about Flair was, once the NWA became centered on Jim Crockett Promotions, he had veto power and full control over his storylines. Hell, you want to know how Ronnie Garvin won the NWA title? Flair wanted to lose it and win the belt back at Starrcade '87. No one in the company but Garvin was stupid enough to go for a reign that, regardless of how well you did as champ, was destined to end at Starrcade. (And people shit on his win so much that he wound up only defending it the once at Starrcade.) Flair's dominance wasn't because of his skill or his ability, it was because he had veto power over his matches. Whether or not he would have worked as a champion, Lex Luger was over enough in 1988 that he should have been given the shot. Instead Flair kept veoting the title changes, and along the way Flair constantly keeping the belt while Dusty Rhodes' friends held all the secondary titles bankrupted Crockett.

Flair's dominance was a combination of the way things were and his veto power. Flair was nowhere near the draw people think he was, especially in the late 80s. And really, drawing power is why you're a champion.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #238 on: April 12, 2014, 11:45:17 AM »
Well, you'll never see me defend Flair's locker room shenanigans.  I still laugh at how he ripped Bret Hart for the Montreal screwjob, when he himself refused to put Luger over in 1990 after Sting blew his knee out, and then again in 1991 before he left.  Flair is by all accounts a POS and it always makes me laugh how some defend him to death simply because he was such a good entertainer. 

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #239 on: April 12, 2014, 04:06:50 PM »
Flair the personality.... godlike; Richard Fliehr... 10 pounds of douche in a 5 pound bag.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #240 on: April 13, 2014, 08:37:40 AM »
Pretty much, yeah. :lol

Also, going back to Jaq's post, why was Ronnie Garvin stupid?  He is a guy who never would have been world champ otherwise, and definitely wasn't main event material, so why not take the opportunity to be the world champ at least once?  Sure, his reign was gonna be super short no matter what, but he guaranteed both a world title and main eventing the NWA's biggest PPV of the year on his resume; not a bad deal, if you ask me.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #241 on: April 13, 2014, 08:51:04 AM »
Oh, and...



 :rollin :rollin :rollin

Offline Jaq

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #242 on: April 13, 2014, 10:17:56 AM »
Pretty much, yeah. :lol

Also, going back to Jaq's post, why was Ronnie Garvin stupid?  He is a guy who never would have been world champ otherwise, and definitely wasn't main event material, so why not take the opportunity to be the world champ at least once?  Sure, his reign was gonna be super short no matter what, but he guaranteed both a world title and main eventing the NWA's biggest PPV of the year on his resume; not a bad deal, if you ask me.

Mainly because it made him a locker room laughing stock. There's a reason why Garvin was in opening matches on WWF shows against Greg Valentine within a year; he was dead in the water in the NWA after that debacle. Sure he had a reign on his resume, but everyone in the business knew he got it not because he deserved it, or was thought to be a big draw, but because Ric Flair wanted to win at Starrcade. That's the kind of choice that kills careers, and it pretty well killed Garvin's right there.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #243 on: April 14, 2014, 10:52:01 AM »
Everything that happens behind the scenes

Remember the good ol' days when we as fans didn't know all this stuff?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Pro Wrestling Thread - R.I.P. Ultimate Warrior
« Reply #244 on: April 14, 2014, 10:56:59 AM »
Pretty much, yeah. :lol

Also, going back to Jaq's post, why was Ronnie Garvin stupid?  He is a guy who never would have been world champ otherwise, and definitely wasn't main event material, so why not take the opportunity to be the world champ at least once?  Sure, his reign was gonna be super short no matter what, but he guaranteed both a world title and main eventing the NWA's biggest PPV of the year on his resume; not a bad deal, if you ask me.

Mainly because it made him a locker room laughing stock. There's a reason why Garvin was in opening matches on WWF shows against Greg Valentine within a year; he was dead in the water in the NWA after that debacle. Sure he had a reign on his resume, but everyone in the business knew he got it not because he deserved it, or was thought to be a big draw, but because Ric Flair wanted to win at Starrcade. That's the kind of choice that kills careers, and it pretty well killed Garvin's right there.

I suppose, but Garvin was never really a main event guy, so that at least gave him a short time at the top.  And the Valentine feud in the WWF was a really good mid-card feud, so I don't think that was a detriment to him or anything.  I looked as his lack of a real push in the WWF as Vince's way of saying, "A guy good enough to be the NWA champion by beating Ric Flair isn't good enough to be more than a mid-carder here in the WWF."  Not that he deserved a main event push, but Vince routinely did that with NWA stars he signed.  Look at how he turned Dusty Rhodes into a polka dot-wearing buffoon (although I never liked Dusty Rhodes, so I was fine with that :lol).