Pro Wrestling Thread

[Jaffa]

The Zayn/Owens match stole the show, but couldn't they have held off until Summerslam and given it the stage it deserved?

That might have been better, yeah.  But to be honest, I'm kind of expecting these two to headline Wrestlemania together at some point in the not-too-far-off future.  They both definitely have the talent, and while they need to take a break from each other for now, I doubt we've seen the end of their rivalry overall. 

[BlobVanDam]

The Zayn/Owens match stole the show, but couldn't they have held off until Summerslam and given it the stage it deserved?

That might have been better, yeah.  But to be honest, I'm kind of expecting these two to headline Wrestlemania together at some point in the not-too-far-off future.  They both definitely have the talent, and while they need to take a break from each other for now, I doubt we've seen the end of their rivalry overall. 

It just seemed a bit of a waste to me to build their feud so well recently while managing to keep them apart from a 1v1, and then not wait the extra month for a huge event like Summerslam. It's easily one of the best feuds of the year. Nonetheless, the match was excellent and was given a good amount of time.

[axeman90210]

So Raw tonight was pretty damn great.

[TheCountOfNYC]

So Raw tonight was pretty damn great.

This was the best Raw in a long time. Finn Balor going over Roman Reigns was a pleasant surprise. Sasha Banks winning the title was even better. 

[jjrock88]

I actually watched the entire show from beginning to end.  Not that often I can do that.  Great show.

[Cool Chris]

Sasha might just have the most beautiful smile I have ever seen.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Smackdown Live was awesome.  Now we've got two Top Title matches at SummerSlam with 4 dudes that I really like.

[jjrock88]

Smackdown Live was awesome.  Now we've got two Top Title matches at SummerSlam with 4 dudes that I really like.

I agree.  This past week of wrestling is the most I've enjoyed from WWE in recent memory.

[Zook]

I've never seen an Enzo and Cass promo before. That was some hilarious shit.

[axeman90210]

I've never seen an Enzo and Cass promo before. That was some hilarious shit.

Man, you have missed out. Enzo is hilarious pretty much every week.

[axeman90210]

Anybody watching the Cruiserweight Classic? Ciampa vs Gargano to close out the first round last night was straight fire.

[jjrock88]

Anybody watching the Cruiserweight Classic? Ciampa vs Gargano to close out the first round last night was straight fire.

That match up was spectacular.  The match up before it, the one with Jack Gallagher, was also fantastic.

I gotta say, I am really enjoying this tournament and hope its a yearly thing.  I know they have had the cruiserweight division before and it never lasted, but I have a feeling its here to stay this time.  If you havent been watching this tournament, I highly highly recommend catching up.

[axeman90210]

I was just texting my buddy earlier that for all the Zack Sabre Jr hype ahead of time, I think I enjoyed Gallagher's match last night more.

[axeman90210]

So how 'bout that Ibushi vs Cedric Alexander match this week? Right up there with Ciampa vs Gargano.

[jjrock88]

So how 'bout that Ibushi vs Cedric Alexander match this week? Right up there with Ciampa vs Gargano.

It might have actually surpassed it. I think Cedric got himself a contract based on his performance. When it comes to wrestling, this is must see television. And like Mick Foley mentioned, the commentating with the CWC actually makes it even more enjoyable

[axeman90210]

I was in Brooklyn for TakeOver again last night, fucking awesome. Early matches were all at least solid, Bobby Roode's entrance was truly glorious, and the three title matches were all great. Tag title match was Match of the Night for me. For the second year in a row, Summerslam might end up being upstaged by NXT.

[BlobVanDam]

Although the Summerslam card looks much better on paper than last year's imo, so I expect it to at least be a solid show, with a lot of potential.

I only watched the two singles title matches. I preferred the women's match to the men's match, but they were both good. First time I've seen Asuka wrestle, even though I was already familiar with her. I was happy with the outcome of both too.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, Summerslam does look very good on paper. Do yourself a favor and watch at least the tag title match when you have time.

[BlobVanDam]

Will do. I'm really not familiar with who's left on NXT any more, so I wanted to see those two matches first for Nakamura and Bayley, because I knew they'd be good.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I watched Takeover last night. It was the first time I ever watched NXT and it was incredible. Asuka vs Bayley was amazing and every other match was great as well.

[axeman90210]

I watched Takeover last night. It was the first time I ever watched NXT and it was incredible. Asuka vs Bayley was amazing and every other match was great as well.

Dude, there is so much *fantastic* wrestling waiting for you in the NXT TakeOver archives.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Welcome to the main roster Finn. Here's your top title.
I mean I'm happy for him.... but wow.
US Title Match?
Brock "exempt from wellness policy" Lesnar?
F that noise..... bed time. 5 AM comes around fast.

[axeman90210]

Welcome to the main roster Finn. Here's your top title.
I mean I'm happy for him.... but wow.
US Title Match?
Brock "exempt from wellness policy" Lesnar?
F that noise..... bed time. 5 AM comes around fast.

Well you certainly missed some... interesting finishes to those last couple matches. Pleasantly surprised that Finn and AJ won their respective matches.

Decided to grab a ticket for Raw tonight, should be an interesting show.

[BlobVanDam]

AJ Styles and Cena stole the show hard. Nothing else came close. And damn, Ranallo is such a huge plus on commentary. He adds so much to the match. They definitely have big plans for Styles after giving him the clean win. He's had a great debut year in WWE.

The women's match was very good too, but Sasha Banks seemed out of it after that botched(?) corner move onto her head. Took her a while to get back into it, and even after that it didn't flow as well as usual. Looks like she'd was already planning to take time off for a back injury, and it showed. Still a great match under the circumstances, I just spent the whole match worrying.

Balor vs Rollins was good, but not amazing.

The opening tag match was fun. How could that much charisma in the ring possibly have disappointed? It couldn't. Jericho + KO is a great combo.

I'm glad Lesnar kicked the shit out of Orton. That shouldn't be an even match up. Ever. Looks like Orton was legit busted open too. Awesome. And now they can "suspend" him until the next time he shows up.

The rest of the show was meh. A lot of underwhelming matches, and a disappointing running order. Two main titles, and neither of them made the final two matches. Ok.

[TheCountOfNYC]

SummerSlam was a mixed bag of good and terrible moments. Neither world title match getting the main event slot is inexcusable but the US title match that didn't even happen being after both of them is even worse. I hate Lesnar more and more every time I see him. He couldn't give two shits about actually putting on a decent match and simply doesn't deserve to have everything handed to him like the WWE has since his debut. Jon Stewart's appearance was a waste of time and brought down the New Day's entertainment value which I once thought to be impossible. Sasha having to drop the belt due to injury was a tremendous disappointment. And the terrible design of the Universal title caused the hostile Brooklyn crowd to ruin a good match between Rollins and Balor. With that said, AJ and Cena brought the house down. That is a contender for match of the year and may very well win the award. The two of them completely stole the show and as an added bonus, Cena lost clean. This should catapult Styles to superstardom and it's long overdue as far as I'm concerned.

[Anguyen92]

Looking at the results of Summerslam and other shows from other companies from the past week, it's hard to believe it after a rocky start and shakeup in 2016, but, somehow, The Bullet Club has become relevant again.

Kenny Omega won NJPW's G1 Climax, which to me, is the greatest wrestling tournament of the year, being the first foreigner to do so under the G1 Climax name.  Adam Cole won the ROH Championship, ending Jay Lethal's year-plus long reign.  AJ Styles, former Bullet Club member, defeated John Cena cleanly (which is already insane cause I thought it might have ended in LOLCenawins or that Styles wins due to Guns and Gallows shenanigans) and Bullet Club founder, Finn Balor, became a World Champion.

Wrestling in 2016, it's a fun time to be a fan.

[jjrock88]

NXT Takeover was a great show.  The tag title match and main event were fantastic.  Great show overall.

From Summerslam, Cena-Styles stole the show for sure.  Match of the year contender for sure.  Overall, SS was very good, but like WM, was just too long.  The length of Takeover was perfect.  Less is more many times.

I'm assuming the Orton cut was legit, because the ending was pretty flat.  A Shane-Brock match just doesn't sound too appealing at this point in time.  The Reigns-Rusev match seemed like a cheap way out; that should never happen on a major event.

Some great wrestling this weekend (and a fantastic UFC main event too)

[KevShmev]

I am really out of the loop with wrestling, hence me having no idea who Finn Balor is, so when I read the SummerSlam review earlier, I was like, who?  But hey, looks like another wrestler that got hurt thanks to Seth Rollins. What's that, three in the last 13 months now (six of which he didn't wrestle)?  Can you say UNSAFE?

And the WWE can stop acting like they give two craps about concussions.  I mean, they just ended their 2nd (or 3rd) most important PPV with one of their biggest stars of the last decade lying in a pool of blood thanks to his opponent beating him in the head repeatedly with elbows.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I am really out of the loop with wrestling, hence me having no idea who Finn Balor is, so when I read the SummerSlam review earlier, I was like, who?  But hey, looks like another wrestler that got hurt thanks to Seth Rollins. What's that, three in the last 13 months now (six of which he didn't wrestle)?  Can you say UNSAFE?

And the WWE can stop acting like they give two craps about concussions.  I mean, they just ended their 2nd (or 3rd) most important PPV with one of their biggest stars of the last decade lying in a pool of blood thanks to his opponent beating him in the head repeatedly with elbows.

On the Seth Rollins point, Balor was at fault for his injury on Sunday. He turned to break his fall with his arm which you're not suppose to do with that move.

And the WWE definitely cares about their superstars' well beings. People aren't sure if Orton getting busted open was planned or not but if it was planned, Orton had to agree to it. If he said no, it wouldn't have happened on purpose.

[Anguyen92]

From what I read, it just sounds pretty careless a bit dangerous for Rollins to pull a move like that on the outside and I would like to think that there could have been better options to continue establishing Lesnar as a destroyer of worlds that didn't result in the sight of seeing Orton knocked out in a pool of blood.  Who wants to see that at a wrestling show?  It sounds depressing.  Here's a translation of something that came from NJPW ace Hiroshi Tanahashi's autobiography regarding matters like this.

During my U-30 IWGP Champion reign (2003-2005), I used to criticize wrestling styles that involve  excessive use of moves as “McDonalization of Wrestling”. Here, I'm talking about wrestling that you can readily enjoy like fast-food. Type of wrestling where you throw in moves after moves, and make spots that will make the crowd on their feet as much as possible, so that the fans can enjoy them conveniently and efficiently.

As a result, wrestlers and matches start to lack in their color or individuality. In the end, there will be more wrestlers with same moves resulting in same kind of matches.  When you think of fast-food, it has its benefit for being simple, but in the long run, it has its downside as well.

I wanted to give attention to the “space” in between my moves. If I throw in moves after moves, the crowd will be deprived of their opportunity to enjoy those “space” between the moves. The kind of “space” that the famous Ric Flair created in his matches. And when they are lost, you fail to give audience the aftertaste of each move. The beauty of pro-wrestling will be lost forever.  Pro-wrestling is about dealing with mannerism. As the chairman of BUSHIROAD (owner of NJPW) Takaaki Kidani always say, “Entertainment is done for when people are bored with the product”. And I agree with that. The more progress “McDonalization of wrestling” make, the faster fans will lose interest in the product. The fans will lose their expectation for the coming product in the future.

Why wrestlers turned to dangerous moves

What stood in the way when I think about “Wrestling that women and kids can enjoy” is an exchange of dangerous moves.  I have long been claiming that “Pro-wrestling is a competition of winning three counts from the opponent, and it is by no means a ‘stunning contest’ where you stir up the crowd with series of dangerous moves.”  When I had the chance to fight in other promotions, I got worried watching exchange of dangerous moves on the apron and head-first moves outside the ring, which even seemed way too dangerous from a wrestler’s perspective. And since then, I’ve been raising an alarm at these actions.  When wrestlers turn to dangerous moves, the fans will be immune to them. An exchange of normal moves wouldn’t be enough to excite the fans, and wrestlers will turn to even more dangerous moves. Both the wrestlers and the viewers will be desensitized, leading the former to be driven in to the corner. Exchange of dangerous moves just keeps on escalating. Punching the opponent until he coughs up blood, dropping the opponent head-first with a suplex he can’t take bump to… You must put an end to the never-ending spiral of dangerous moves.

And they are usually babyface vs babyface matches that tend to have no theme and result in exchange of dangerous moves for the sake of getting crowd reaction. And the rise of MMA also had effect on excessive use of dangerous moves. Wrestlers thought they had to appeal to the fans that wrestling is as intense as MMA.  But wrestling is supposed to be exciting in more other ways. From the viewer’s perspective, you can’t tell which to root for if you see two men in the same black pants with same black hair on the ring. The matchup is an un-friendly one for the first-timers.

https://yottsumepuroresu.blogspot.com/2014/05/njpw-hiroshi-tanahashi-talks-about-his.html

Tanahashi might be onto something here.

To be fair, one of the things I've been soured on in American promotions is this idea of the McDonalization of wrestling that Tanahashi talks about.  Nowadays, I think people want to see amazing four-star matches and spots and flips and chant "This is Awesome" rather than get invested in wanting to see someone win.  With that mentality, it feels like the WWE wrestlers are killing their bodies, moreso than what it used to be, and hence that big period around Fall 2015 where people was getting injured left and right.

And Hiroshi Tanahashi, from my perception, looks to be one of the more safer workers in NJPW that works more like a Shawn Michaels (second coming era HBK) and can work with anyone in any country.

[axeman90210]

Thoughts from last night:

The opening segment was a little awkward I thought just in nobody getting on the microphone and making their case to be a contender (besides Rollins with some nice heel work after Balor left), and not really getting the details of how it was all going to work aside from there being a series of matches and that Rollins vs Zayn would be first.

All four of the qualifier matches were at least solid. Not sure what was going on with Sami's ankle, but they either went with a weird story to tell in the match or they kept that match going on too long after a legit injury. Either way, Sami on one leg is still capable of a very good match. Owens vs Neville was also really good, and they did a good job of making Neville look strong in defeat. Enzo and Cass was entertaining enough, though I'm not really sure what the plan is with Rusev going forward. Jericho vs Reigns was a solid main event, and I have to admit that I bought in a little bit on the near fall from the Owens superkick to codebreaker sequence. I'm glad they didn't split up JeriKO over this though, those two are delightful together.

New Day segment was fun, I wish I had sprang for seats closer to ringside after seeing Big E ladling Booty O's into people's mouths. Also funny: Xavier and Kofi carrying the unicorn pinata around for people ringside to pet during the commercial break.

Titus O'Neil was... not great on the microphone, and the crowd wasn't having any of it. On the plus side, I got to watch Mr. Bob Backlund bust out a cross face chicken wing.

Obviously the Bayley debut was the highlight of the night, my voice is kinda shot today from marking out over that. Solid little introductory match for her against Dana.

Crowd was super hot for the Dudleys farewell, and super pissed when it ended up being Devon going through the table. Not a bad way to get some more heat on the learned doctors Gallows and Anderson.

Dark match saw Ambrose and Cena beat Rollins and Styles, pretty standard affair. Big pop when Cena's music hit, as it was a surprise, and the crowd was really into Styles as well.

Non-show thoughts:

People who try to start CM Punk chants and/or the wave should be castrated and barred from attending future events, unless the segment is truly awful and boring. We had people trying to start the wave during Bayley's debut match... not cool. Less attempts to start CM Punk chants than from the pre-Mania Raw, though that was partially offset by the "We want Slater" chants that popped up a few times. At least he's relevant to the current product though.

Had a little dust up between the guy sitting next to me and the mother of the kid sitting in front of us. Her one kid was a little obnoxious about how often/long he was holding up the sign he brought with him. The guy finally said something during the New Day entrance/promo. The kid started crying and the mom got pissed and complained to arena staff, who came down and gave the guy grief. He went back up to argue with them some more, and ended up getting his seat upgraded to keep everyone happy. Worked out well for me as I got some elbow room and the kid didn't want to put his sign up for the rest of the show.

[KevShmev]

On the Seth Rollins point, Balor was at fault for his injury on Sunday. He turned to break his fall with his arm which you're not suppose to do with that move.
 

Perhaps, but people keep getting hurt while in the ring with Rollins, and he is the one constant.  He is clearly unsafe in the ring.

 

And the WWE definitely cares about their superstars' well beings. People aren't sure if Orton getting busted open was planned or not but if it was planned, Orton had to agree to it. If he said no, it wouldn't have happened on purpose.

Only for the purpose of them making money for the company, not because they actually care about their well-being.  Once they are not with the company anymore, they couldn't give two shits, unless you are one of the ones Vince, Stephanie or HHH are buddies with (see: Ric Flair, who still collects a paycheck despite being an embarrassing drunk, only cause he and HHH are pals).

[Jaffa]

 

And the WWE definitely cares about their superstars' well beings. People aren't sure if Orton getting busted open was planned or not but if it was planned, Orton had to agree to it. If he said no, it wouldn't have happened on purpose.

Only for the purpose of them making money for the company, not because they actually care about their well-being.  Once they are not with the company anymore, they couldn't give two shits, unless you are one of the ones Vince, Stephanie or HHH are buddies with (see: Ric Flair, who still collects a paycheck despite being an embarrassing drunk, only cause he and HHH are pals).

I'm not sure how fair this is.  For example, it's a pretty well established fact that WWE have a standing policy of offering to pay for rehab for any former talent who are struggling with substance abuse.  As far as I know, they send this offer in an annual letter to pretty much all of their former employees, though I could be mistaken on that point.  At any rate, it is publicly known that they have extended this offer to guys like Zach Gowen and Maven - not exactly the Kliq. 

Granted, this doesn't have any bearing on concussions or injuries, but it hardly paints the picture of a company that stops giving a fuck once talent leaves.

[axeman90210]

So, Kevin Owens is now your new Universal champion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiUVQ-pla24

[BlobVanDam]

About damn time!