Pro Wrestling Thread

[Jaffa]

@Blob: We'll have to agree to disagree on Shane.  I mean, I'm not defending the overall way that match was booked.  But I have always loved Shane's matches, and it's partially because he wasn't a real wrestler.  He wasn't trained to compete - he was just a guy fighting for his life, fighting his heart out, fighting until he physically couldn't fight anymore.  And it was always an awesome spectacle. 

Think about what people have had to do to keep Shane down in the past.  Kurt Angle had to hit an Angle Slam from the top rope.  Steve Blackman had to knock him off the rafters and follow him down with an elbow drop.  And you want the Undertaker to beat him with a powerbomb? 

I don't know.  If I had been in charge of booking this match, I definitely would have wanted the Undertaker be more dominant.  But I would have also wanted Shane to kick out of the Last Ride.  I probably would have also wanted him to kick out of the chokeslam.  I would have wanted him to keep kicking out and kicking out until Undertaker was forced to basically murder him, because it was the only way Shane would stop kicking out. 

Of course, that's not what happened.  And I agree with you that what happened didn't really make either of them look particularly good. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Decent Wrestlemania. Far from the best, but also far from the worst. Jericho & AJ was outstanding. The ladder match was fun. The Women killed it (was there ever any doubt).

Happiest for Zack Ryder. That was a LONG time coming.

[axeman90210]

I'm going to type up match by match thoughts in a few minutes, but just in general I always look at Wrestlemania, much more than their other PPVs, as part wrestling show and part spectacle. This year it definitely slid much more to the spectacle end of the spectrum (and I can't necessarily blame them given the injury plague they've been hit with), but for the most part it was still damn entertaining. I was watching with a group of people last night and there were a few moments that had us collectively losing our damn minds.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I enjoyed this year's Mania and definitely liked it more than the last one I watched (30). Zack Ryder winning was a good moment for the fans, the Hell in the Cell match gave me the "holy shit" moment that I always look forward to, and AJ vs Jericho was awesome despite the finish. Of course, the show stealer was the Women's Title match. Those three ladies put on one hell of a show, and it gives me hope for the future of women's wrestling. It felt like watching Lita and Trish again, and I was smiling during the whole match. Congratulations to Charlotte, Sasha Banks, and Becky Lynch for putting women's wrestling back on the map.

[ZKX-2099]

Just finished watching it. Loved the whole show.

Might I suggest to those who are upset about it to stop watching all wrestling for a while. I did that, now I enjoy it more than ever. 

[axeman90210]

Match by match thoughts:

IC Title Ladder Match- Overall decent match with a couple cool spots. Enjoyed Ziggler spamming superkicks, and I'm not sure how Sin Cara managed to hit that fall onto Stardust without his bones shattering. That suplex Zayn gave Owens onto the ladder looked brutal. The finish gets an incomplete for me. Definitely came out of left field, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If they give him at least a couple successful defenses it could be an interesting shakeup to the mid card scene, but if they just have him drop the title back to Owens tonight and he just goes back to tagging full time with Mojo on NXT then it just becomes a swerve for the sake of a swerve.

AJ Styles vs Chris Jericho- Second best wrestling match of the night, but I was expecting a little bit more. It just seemed like it could be a little more crisp, some of the transitions and counters felt a little sloppy. This is one case where I definitely don't agree with the booking, no reason your big new acquisition should be losing to a part timer who doesn't need the win.

The New Day vs League of Nations- A lot of people were bitching about LoN getting the win here, but it really didn't bother me. A month from now people will remember two things from this, New Day making their entrance out of a giant goddamn box of Booty O's (dressed in DBZ attire), and the post match segment with the legends. Everyone at my house was marking out hard when the glass shattered (although I was pretty much already there over HBK coming out) and it was a fun little segment.

Lesnar vs Ambrose- Fine, but a little bit of a letdown given the buildup. I guess inevitable given that this is the PG era and they involved Barbie and a chainsaw in the buildup. Still think it needed to be a few more minutes longer and Ambrose needed to take a bit more of a beating if you wanted him to still look good in defeat.

Triple Threat Match for the Women's Championship- The best pure wrestling match in a walk. Love the new belt and the reveal with Lita on the pre-show. I get why they kept the belt on Charlotte, and I think they had an eye towards the crossover coverage they would get as a result of rebranding the women's division. I still think they should have put the belt on Sasha though. Imagine the pop if they ran essentially the same match, and then had Snoop run over to block Naitch from interfering with Sasha, letting her get back in the ring and tap somebody.

Hell in a Cell- Well, we sure as hell got the crazy Shane spot we were expecting. I think this match needed a little more time with Taker being in control, because up until the high spot was booked a little too even for HiaC Mania Undertaker vs someone just back to the company who was never a full time wrestler to begin with. I was expecting some kind of outside interference here that never manifested, and I'm really surprised they didn't involve Vince in the presentation at all.

Andre Battle Royal- The most overtly spectacle part of the evening. Nice to see DDP show up again (and Tatanka as well). Shaq coming out was pretty random, but cool to see nonetheless. Glad to see Corbin get the win, he's been pretty great down in NXT since his match with Joe last August. Curious to see if he jumps to the main roster full time, and if so what they have planned for him.

The Rock- The whole flamethrower was really random, but otherwise I thought this was good. I know people are complaining about him "burying" the Wyatts, but let's all be honest, they are already DOA. Rock ripping off his pants to reveal that he was in his wrestling gear was a great moment. I'm curious to see if Cena's back full time or just popping in because it's Mania.

Triple H vs Roman Reigns- Yeah, about this... The only way this was going to work is with some kind of interference or twist, but instead they just had Roman Reigns show up and beat Triple H clean. The match itself was slow, and while it wasn't terrible, it wasn't great either. It's a pretty awful sign though that pretty much everyone there either left before this was over or stayed and booed. Evidently Roman called out Cena on the Today show this morning, which is what I can only hope is the beginning of a turn to a cocky asshole heel.

[axeman90210]

I forgot how much I love Cesaro just straight uppercutting people to death.

[BlobVanDam]

Might I suggest to those who are upset about it to stop watching all wrestling for a while. I did that, now I enjoy it more than ever. 

Or just watch better wrestling like Lucha Underground. Aztec Warfare a couple of weeks ago was better than anything WWE have managed in a long time. That show is a clinic in logical booking and utilizing talent properly.

The Raw after WM is always one of the better ones, and this one was better than their average Raw these days (even if just for the lack of wasting the first half hour on HHH rambling the same tired garbage like every other week, and not having to hear Stephanie McMahon's voice). The crowd after WM is always the best, and while it was great to hear a crowd actually care, I found them mostly obnoxious this time. I was surprised that AJ Styles became #1 contender (and won with the Styles Clash, which they continue to downplay). I can't wait to see the crowd reaction as he jobs to Reigns.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, as much as I love a hot crowd, they trend towards making it about themselves and doing nonsequiter chants when they're not warranted. Save the wave and your "JBL" and other random chants for when what's happening is truly stupid and/or boring, don't bust them out when legitimately cool stuff is happening. I have the same problem sometimes with the NXT crowd. That said, between Apollo Crews and Enzo and Cass (that promo!) debuting, Cesaro returning, and the Vaudevillains debuting on Smackdown (damn you WWE for giving me a reason to watch Smackdown), there's a lot of potential for them to do some good stuff in the coming months.

Do we think AJ Styles springboards for the Phenomenal Forearm into a spear or a Superman punch?

[BlobVanDam]

Aside from the "women's wrestling" chant, I think the crowd was a bit over the top and rude during the segment for the new women's belt. And it caught Charlotte completely off guard for her promo too.
I hope they don't job out Apollo Crews, being a black guy and from NXT. I've only seen a couple of his matches, but I think they could do a lot with him.

Do we think AJ Styles springboards for the Phenomenal Forearm into a spear or a Superman punch?

Gonna be a superman punch on the springboard forearm, followed by a regular spear.

[Anguyen92]

Well, reading the last few post, at least, the solace I have over Styles going to be jobbing for Reigns is that Styles is going to get paid well and so forth.  It's an odd thing and shows how powerful, malicious, and terrifying, WWE is as a business company nowadays.  Styles going to be lose to Reigns, everyone in the internet will bitch and moan, but he's going to get paid a lot more than if he wrestled a five star match in a gymnasium in ROH or a lower-tier arena (like 5-10k people) in NJPW.  Still beats working for TNA though at this stage for him.

[axeman90210]

So, uh, Raw tonight has been pretty great.

[cramx3]

I've been reading this since I posted a few weeks ago, I need to start watching to get into the storylines going into the next ppv which I have tickets for.  You guys think Extreme Rules will be a good event or is it too early from the WM fallout?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I've been reading this since I posted a few weeks ago, I need to start watching to get into the storylines going into the next ppv which I have tickets for.  You guys think Extreme Rules will be a good event or is it too early from the WM fallout?

Payback is the WM fallout show, but it seems that this year they're not doing the Backlash rehash of WM with Styles facing Reigns instead of trips and Miz & Cesaro for the IC Title instead of Ryder and Owens.

Extreme Rules is the following "PPV" and it should be entertaining, given the stips and who could be facing off.

[cramx3]

I've been reading this since I posted a few weeks ago, I need to start watching to get into the storylines going into the next ppv which I have tickets for.  You guys think Extreme Rules will be a good event or is it too early from the WM fallout?

Payback is the WM fallout show, but it seems that this year they're not doing the Backlash rehash of WM with Styles facing Reigns instead of trips and Miz & Cesaro for the IC Title instead of Ryder and Owens.

Extreme Rules is the following "PPV" and it should be entertaining, given the stips and who could be facing off.

Oh, oop,s I thought Extreme Rules was the next PPV.  I guess I can wait until after Payback to start following.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Rest in peace Balls Mahoney. A true legend of ECW.

[cramx3]

Rest in peace Balls Mahoney. A true legend of ECW.

whaaa, RIP, I used to watch him a lot in ECW.

[Dimitrius]

Did you guys watch this week's Lucha Underground??

I don't know who's beneath that Dragón Azteca Jr mask, but BY GAWD can he go!

[BlobVanDam]

That whole match was pretty damn amazing. No dead weight at all there. That spot with Cage giving the double fallaway slam. What a machine!

[axeman90210]

I really need to catch up on Lucha Underground. Maybe now that some of my TV shows are finishing their seasons...

[Cool Chris]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/TimChizmar/church?ref=discovery

Because there just aren't enough movies starring Sabu, Gangrel, and Jack the Snake Roberts.

[axeman90210]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/TimChizmar/church?ref=discovery

Because there just aren't enough movies starring Sabu, Gangrel, and Jack the Snake Roberts.

Shut up and take my money.

[BlobVanDam]

RIP Chyna. Don't know the cause yet, whether she fell of the wagon, or whether her past just caught up with her, but still unexpected.

[Cool Chris]

Well damn, very unexpected. I read recently she was going to be featured in a TV show about botched surgeries, or something like that.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Wow. Another one gone young. This year has been ridiculous to celebrities of all types. She was one of the greats of the attitude era. Maybe this will cause the WWE to get over their problems with her and put her in the Hall of Fame where she belongs.

[jjrock88]

Sad news

[axeman90210]

So, Finn Balor dropped the NXT Title to Joe at a house show tonight... Who all is ready for Balor Club on the main roster

[KevShmev]

Wow. Another one gone young. This year has been ridiculous to celebrities of all types. She was one of the greats of the attitude era. Maybe this will cause the WWE to get over their problems with her and put her in the Hall of Fame where she belongs.

For them to acknowledge her at all now just shows what pieces of shit the McMahons are.  When HHH left her for Stephanie, that basically got her fired and then they blacklisted her from the company, which was the beginning of her downward spiral that lasted till she died.  But hey, now that she is dead, they want to talk about her and what she meant to the business?  Typical low class McMahon crap.

[masterthes]

They were still dating during her IC run?

[BlobVanDam]

The PPV after Wrestlemania was significantly better than Wrestlemania. Go figure.

Aside from the unfortunate circumstances of the opening tag match, there wasn't a bad match, not even the Reigns match. Every match got plenty of time too.
The IC scene is looking much better after those two matches back to back. Zayn vs Owens was of course great, and Who would have thought a Miz match could be so damn entertaining? Owens on commentary was money.
AJ Styles got a good match out of Reigns, I don't think it even needed the extra guys. The screwy finishes were used to add to the match, and AJ Styles came out of it still looking good. I'm ok with them getting another match out of this.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, I was pretty happy with the PPV overall. Obviously what  happened to Enzo sucked, glad it wasn't anything more serious than a concussion. The in ring action for the rest of the night was at least solid, if not great (hell, even Ryback and Kalisto had a pretty entertaining match at the end of the pre-show). Kevin Owens is just gold, whether he's in the ring or just on commentary. Really nice match between Cesaro and Miz. Miz definitely needs someone great in the ring with him in order to have a great match, but he's certainly capable of having one (see also some of his matches with Styles and Jericho over the last few months). And his character work has been on point for a while now. Styles vs Reigns was about as enjoyable for me as it possibly could have been without any kind of formal WWE Bullet Club formation. The false finish off the forearm where Roman just got his foot on the rope absolutely got me.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Yeah, I was pretty happy with the PPV overall. Obviously what  happened to Enzo sucked, glad it wasn't anything more serious than a concussion. The in ring action for the rest of the night was at least solid, if not great (hell, even Ryback and Kalisto had a pretty entertaining match at the end of the pre-show). Kevin Owens is just gold, whether he's in the ring or just on commentary. Really nice match between Cesaro and Miz. Miz definitely needs someone great in the ring with him in order to have a great match, but he's certainly capable of having one (see also some of his matches with Styles and Jericho over the last few months). And his character work has been on point for a while now. Styles vs Reigns was about as enjoyable for me as it possibly could have been without any kind of formal WWE Bullet Club formation. The false finish off the forearm where Roman just got his foot on the rope absolutely got me.

That near fall absolutely killed me. I'm a huge AJ Styles mark but knew going into the match that he has virtually no chance of winning. However, as the match went on and got restarted twice, it started to look like the WWE would possibly give him the belt. That cover was the only time during the night that I jumped out of my seat in excitement and I dropped to the floor when he got his foot on the rope. The WWE and Roman Reigns did a great job in making AJ look strong even in defeat and this gives me hope that Vince and co. are actually invested in Styles' success instead of just casting him off to the side like they usually do when they take other companies' talent.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't see them ever giving AJ the title unfortunately, but this at least showed that they value him in a main event capacity, and I was happy with his strong showing. It felt like a close fight the entire time.

[BlobVanDam]

Holy shit, that No Mas match on Lucha Underground! That was the most hardcore women's match I've seen, not to mention an amazing end to a feud. Sexy Star screaming FUCK YOU MARIPOSA into the mic while bleeding out in that submission hold was awesome. Probably about the extent of her English skills.

And I am so beyond excited for Graver Consequences next week. The last Grave Consequences was one of the most brutal matches they've had, and between these two guys, I expect this one to top it.

[axeman90210]

Quick, hide your favorite WWE mid carders. It looks like it's Future Endeavors day.