R.I.P. Philip Seymour Hoffman

[TioJorge]

It's pretty incredible. I like it a lot more than than Infamous, Toby Jones' version of Capote, which is still pretty amazing but Hoffman pretty much transformed himself.

[Ben_Jamin]

A witness on a plane saw PSH on a plane pass out right away.

[Kotowboy]

I like him in twister. Purely because he's so different in everything else that you appreciate him afterwards

That was my first time seeing him and I thought he was just that guy in reality. Then I saw Mission 3 and Magnolia and realised

he's just playing that surfer dude type character really well.

[El Barto]

A witness on a plane saw PSH on a plane pass out right away.

Well, I guess if you're already a junkie, that's probably the best possible way to fly. Definite advantages to just watching the inflight movie.

[rickhawk80]

He was also fantastic as the priest in "Doubt."

[Xanthul]

Punch Drunk Love is where it's at.

[KevShmev]

Wow. They found 50 bags with heroin in his apartment.

  Holy crap.

I like him in twister. Purely because he's so different in everything else that you appreciate him afterwards

True that.  That is one of those cheeseball fun disaster movies where you need a great supporting cast (especially when your lead actor is someone who is better at being a supporting actor), and Hoffman was hilarious as Dusty.  "It's the suck zone."

[sueño]

He was also fantastic as the priest in "Doubt."

yes!  The entire film was amazing.

He was my favorite character in Mr Ripley, Twister...pretty much anything he was in.  Such a charisma about him.

[rumborak]

I'm surprised to see addiction equated with stupidity here.

It's not the addiction that's stupid. It's trying it in the first place.

Yeah, that's really my point too. Here's a guy who apparently knew of himself that he has no control over his drug consumption, and managed to stay away from it for 20 years. And he has a wife, and 3 kids in grade school, and starts shooting heroin. It's that very first time where he picks up the needle and sticks it in his arm where I wonder his brain was.

[kirksnosehair]

Barto I get what you were saying about bad heroin, but the asshole who sold him the drugs didn't kill him; him shoving a needle full of poison into his arm killed him. I'm not referring to you specifically and I mean know personal disrespect but it sickens me when people blame everyone but the addict. The media is really good at this sort of thing. He might have been a great actor but he was a fuckhead for using that shit in the first place.  I know several people who work in local law enforcement.  Two of them from different jurisdictions have told me within the last year that about 40% of everything they do at the police department now involves heroin or meth. People are fucking stupid.  They know what this crap does but they run out in record numbers to try it anyway. 

I understand addiction but goddamn why try it initially at all? Come on people!

Actually, based on the content of your post I'd say you don't understand a thing about addiction. (no offense, though, most people don't)

[kirksnosehair]

This guy really articulates it very accurately.  Read the FIRST sentence and think about it. 



https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/mar/09/russell-brand-life-without-drugs

[sueño]

^^^One of the most sobering articles I've ever read.  Thank you.

[Fiery Winds]

This guy really articulates it very accurately.  Read the FIRST sentence and think about it. 



https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/mar/09/russell-brand-life-without-drugs

Read that this morning, and this quote really hit home and is so true: "Drugs and alcohol are not my problem, reality is my problem, drugs and alcohol are my solution."

[El Barto]

Read that this morning, and this quote really hit home and is so true: "Drugs and alcohol are not my problem, reality is my problem, drugs and alcohol are my solution."

Personally, I find that perspective to be a troubling oversimplification. Not because it isn't true; I'm sure for Brand and many others it's absolutely dead on*. It's an oversimplification because it's not the case for everybody, and for those of us who do drugs for other reasons it's rather insulting. Some guy in P/R a week or two ago suggested that anybody who does drugs should move out of their mom's basement and learn to cope with life rather than resorting to being a stoner all day. Thankfully people in there called him out for it as they know it to not necessarily be the case. Here, with the written word at least, Brand is very articulate in describing that particular mindset, but suffice it to say, it doesn't apply to all druggies (including friends he mentions who can do crack recreationally and get back to a healthy life). It'd be nice if people keep that in mind.


*And many people in this forum. I don't need to be told that it's accurate for anybody here because I already know it to be true.

[kirksnosehair]

Barto, I'm about 99% sure that he's referring to other self-identified "addicts" not just john q. public, there.    I know that everyone I've ever met who identifies as an addict or an alcoholic would likely agree with his sentiment.  I know I do. 

[Fiery Winds]

Read that this morning, and this quote really hit home and is so true: "Drugs and alcohol are not my problem, reality is my problem, drugs and alcohol are my solution."

Personally, I find that perspective to be a troubling oversimplification. Not because it isn't true; I'm sure for Brand and many others it's absolutely dead on*. It's an oversimplification because it's not the case for everybody, and for those of us who do drugs for other reasons it's rather insulting. Some guy in P/R a week or two ago suggested that anybody who does drugs should move out of their mom's basement and learn to cope with life rather than resorting to being a stoner all day. Thankfully people in there called him out for it as they know it to not necessarily be the case. Here, with the written word at least, Brand is very articulate in describing that particular mindset, but suffice it to say, it doesn't apply to all druggies (including friends he mentions who can do crack recreationally and get back to a healthy life). It'd be nice if people keep that in mind.


*And many people in this forum. I don't need to be told that it's accurate for anybody here because I already know it to be true.

Agreed, and I took Brand's statement as applied to the subset of drug users who struggle with addiction, not all drug users.  The emphasis is on the addiction, not its manifestation.

EDIT: What KNH said.

[TempusVox]

Barto I get what you were saying about bad heroin, but the asshole who sold him the drugs didn't kill him; him shoving a needle full of poison into his arm killed him. I'm not referring to you specifically and I mean know personal disrespect but it sickens me when people blame everyone but the addict. The media is really good at this sort of thing. He might have been a great actor but he was a fuckhead for using that shit in the first place.  I know several people who work in local law enforcement.  Two of them from different jurisdictions have told me within the last year that about 40% of everything they do at the police department now involves heroin or meth. People are fucking stupid.  They know what this crap does but they run out in record numbers to try it anyway. 

I understand addiction but goddamn why try it initially at all? Come on people!

Actually, based on the content of your post I'd say you don't understand a thing about addiction. (no offense, though, most people don't)

Considering ive battled my own addictions I am offended but I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over who understands addiction more. I mean really?

[El Barto]

Barto, I'm about 99% sure that he's referring to other self-identified "addicts" not just john q. public, there.    I know that everyone I've ever met who identifies as an addict or an alcoholic would likely agree with his sentiment.  I know I do.

Well, now that's interesting because it seems to reduce addiction right down to plain ole self-abhorrence. It seems to me that there have to be plenty of addicts who don't have some big gaping hole in their lives. And for that matter, what about people strung out on hydrocodone. Are they using pain pills to fill some void? Cigarettes? Howabout the people who claim to not even get high anymore? How is doing something habitually filling a void if it doesn't reward you with the positive effect?

And I'm not questioning anybody's personal feelings on the subject. Just curious how people think that self-abhorance applies to all addicts.

[adastra]

One less junkie..

That's a pretty asinine comment.  How's the view from your ivory tower?

It doesn't make me any more "superior" than others if I acknowledge that a junkie is a junkie

[EdenHazard]

Nobody said it does.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

One less junkie..

That's a pretty asinine comment.  How's the view from your ivory tower?

It doesn't make me any more "superior" than others if I acknowledge that a junkie is a junkie

It's not that you called him a junkie, it's more the "less" part.

[adastra]

Nobody said it does.

oh lol , I guess i didn't understand the term Ivory tower correctly.

One less junkie..

That's a pretty asinine comment.  How's the view from your ivory tower?

It doesn't make me any more "superior" than others if I acknowledge that a junkie is a junkie

It's not that you called him a junkie, it's more the "less" part.

I didn't mean to offend anyone.. I just don't have any empathy for people who die because of drug using.  Should I ? Propably majority would say I should,  but I don't.
But yeah, Maybe I should just keep my "grim" thoughts to myself. 

[Kotowboy]

I have to admit I was a *little* disappointed when i found out he'd OD'd but it was mostly disappointment in knowing there'd be no new movies.

[rumborak]

Pretty sure any other cause of death would have resulted in him not making any further movies.

[Kotowboy]

I don't think i'd have felt as disappointed in him if he was in a car crash or some thing.

[kirksnosehair]

Nobody said it does.

oh lol , I guess i didn't understand the term Ivory tower correctly.

One less junkie..

That's a pretty asinine comment.  How's the view from your ivory tower?

It doesn't make me any more "superior" than others if I acknowledge that a junkie is a junkie

It's not that you called him a junkie, it's more the "less" part.

I didn't mean to offend anyone.. I just don't have any empathy for people who die because of drug using.  Should I ? Propably majority would say I should,  but I don't.
But yeah, Maybe I should just keep my "grim" thoughts to myself.

Your viewpoint is one that is quite common among what I call "earth people" (non-addicts/alcoholics).   Like most misconceptions it has a kernel of truth at its center.  There is probably no way that a person who becomes a "junkie" will ever see another day on this earth not being a 'junkie."  So, it is true that "a junkie is a junkie."  I'm 50 years old next week and I am a junkie and I'll always be a junkie.  What some (actually, very very few) of us have, though, is the benefit of experience and the lessons it provided.  What some of us share is the fact that we have, at one time or another, through our own actions, succumbed to the physical manifestations of "dependence" on one substance (drugs) or another (alcohol) or -as in my case- both.  And we allowed that loss of control to seize us in the iron grip of addiction and once you pass that Rubicon things change irrecoverably.   We begin to do things we said we'd never do, go places we said we'd never go, associate with people we said we'd never associate.  Life becomes a 24/7 quest to quench the overwhelming, crushing, soul-destroying hunger for more of that drug or drink.  And yes, we all had to make that initial choice to pick up that drug or that drink, but let me tell you something that perhaps a person with your viewpoint may not consider when thinking about "a junkie" and that is the fact that most of us were driven to this behavior as a means of escape from from (in many cases, including mine) unspeakable and horrible experiences.  Allow me to assure you, from life-long experience with this struggle......no one, not one person I have ever met has ever woke up one day and said to themselves, "you know, I want to be a junkie." 


Addiction is a complex, multifaceted condition that can take many years to develop into something that interferes with one's life or compromises one's health.   It's a cunning, baffling, incurable, and almost always fatal, illness.  It's a medical condition, recognized by pretty much the entirety of both the medical and psychological science to be a medical condition.


What it's NOT is:  It's not a moral issue.


It certainly causes a lot of its sufferers to act irrationally, but there are studies that have shown that addiction (especially addiction to opiates like heroin) taps into a part of the human brain that is also responsible for your survival instincts.  It's one of the reasons why addicts are so good at always finding a way to get their next dose.   Addiction is a terrible fatal condition that should be treated as such.  The more this is looked at this way, the better equipped society will become to deal with it and mitigate the symptoms.




Didn't mean to get on a soap box there, but sometimes it bugs me a little bit when people take that sort of dismissive view of addicts as "just another junkie"


There's a lot more to it than that.  And addicts are not the monsters some people think they are.  The things they do when their illness is in high gear are terrible, but some of us have managed to stop using and put a few days between us and that last drug or drink. 

[King Postwhore]

My nephew is in jail a second time for violation of his probation.  I had to kick him out of our house because he was using heroin in my own damn house and was lying to us and not seeing his parole officer.  I'm afraid when he gets out and goes into rehab he still won't have the life skills to survive.  It's and easy way out for pain of not having drugs and too damn easy to get.

Freaked my wife and I out knowing he was doing it in our own house.

[kirksnosehair]

You did the right thing, though.  What choice were you given? 

[King Postwhore]

None.  He broke our hearts. The way he got aggressive at the end hurt me to the core.  I know it was the drugs talking and when we visit him in jail now he looks so much better but it's hard to see a kid you love so much throw his life away.

It's a hard awakening to him that he's 25 in jail and guys that he went to school with are guards there and he's embarrassed now that they see him in this position but I think that's a good thing.  It's remorse.  He just said to us, "I'm 25 and no house, my friends have kids and moved on and what do I have?"

I keep telling him there is so much more for him out there and he has to break all contact with his past with those bad kids.

[kirksnosehair]

None.  He broke our hearts. The way he got aggressive at the end hurt me to the core.  I know it was the drugs talking and when we visit him in jail now he looks so much better but it's hard to see a kid you love so much throw his life away.

It's a hard awakening to him that he's 25 in jail and guys that he went to school with are guards there and he's embarrassed now that they see him in this position but I think that's a good thing.  It's remorse.  He just said to us, "I'm 25 and no house, my friends have kids and moved on and what do I have?"

I keep telling him there is so much more for him out there and he has to break all contact with his past with those bad kids.

True story:  I was arrested at age 19 for some really serious offenses.  On my first night in the county jail I got into a beef with some dude over a seat in the dining room and (long story short) we both ended up on the floor, rolling around in instant mashed potatoes and overcooked peas and carrots, but I really, REALLY lost it during the fight and I refused to cuff up, started jumping on tables and shit...the rest of the detainees just kinda stood there watching, kinda like this    while I evaded the screws hopping from one table to the next.  Then, all of a sudden something (a rubber bullet) hit me square in the chest and I went ass over teakettle to the floor.  I look up and the screw staring down at me is a guy by the name of Evan that I went to 4th through 9th grade with.


That was a real, true, moment in my life.       I'll never forget the look on this face.

[King Postwhore]

I hope this second time is the wake up call.  Good kid left to his on devices because his parents sucked at being parents and he was his own boss as a kid.  Now with no guidance he went to fighting authority, quitting jobs because he was told what to do and selling drugs that eventually lead him to using them.

What I hope is that this time, he goes to rehab and goes to counseling for his anger.  He needs to hear everything his grandparents and us, his aunt and uncle has said to him but from someone not in the family.  You hear it from the family but think we say this because we love him but in truth, we do but we are speaking the truth.

[adastra]

Your viewpoint is one that is quite common among what I call "earth people" (non-addicts/alcoholics).   Like most misconceptions it has a kernel of truth at its center.  There is probably no way that a person who becomes a "junkie" will ever see another day on this earth not being a 'junkie."  So, it is true that "a junkie is a junkie."  I'm 50 years old next week and I am a junkie and I'll always be a junkie.  What some (actually, very very few) of us have, though, is the benefit of experience and the lessons it provided.  What some of us share is the fact that we have, at one time or another, through our own actions, succumbed to the physical manifestations of "dependence" on one substance (drugs) or another (alcohol) or -as in my case- both.  And we allowed that loss of control to seize us in the iron grip of addiction and once you pass that Rubicon things change irrecoverably.   We begin to do things we said we'd never do, go places we said we'd never go, associate with people we said we'd never associate.  Life becomes a 24/7 quest to quench the overwhelming, crushing, soul-destroying hunger for more of that drug or drink.  And yes, we all had to make that initial choice to pick up that drug or that drink, but let me tell you something that perhaps a person with your viewpoint may not consider when thinking about "a junkie" and that is the fact that most of us were driven to this behavior as a means of escape from from (in many cases, including mine) unspeakable and horrible experiences.  Allow me to assure you, from life-long experience with this struggle......no one, not one person I have ever met has ever woke up one day and said to themselves, "you know, I want to be a junkie." 


Addiction is a complex, multifaceted condition that can take many years to develop into something that interferes with one's life or compromises one's health.   It's a cunning, baffling, incurable, and almost always fatal, illness.  It's a medical condition, recognized by pretty much the entirety of both the medical and psychological science to be a medical condition.


What it's NOT is:  It's not a moral issue.


It certainly causes a lot of its sufferers to act irrationally, but there are studies that have shown that addiction (especially addiction to opiates like heroin) taps into a part of the human brain that is also responsible for your survival instincts.  It's one of the reasons why addicts are so good at always finding a way to get their next dose.   Addiction is a terrible fatal condition that should be treated as such.  The more this is looked at this way, the better equipped society will become to deal with it and mitigate the symptoms.




Didn't mean to get on a soap box there, but sometimes it bugs me a little bit when people take that sort of dismissive view of addicts as "just another junkie"


There's a lot more to it than that.  And addicts are not the monsters some people think they are.  The things they do when their illness is in high gear are terrible, but some of us have managed to stop using and put a few days between us and that last drug or drink.

Good reply! Thanks!

I don't know ..
Drugs are one of the biggest backbones of human suffering.. Shitloads of drug related violations of human rights, murders etc. etc.   
Then If a guy "supports" Drugs and gets killed by them, I really don't know why I should feel any kind of empathy towards him.
I understand the empathy towards people who get murdered, die in a car crash ,  etc. 


haha! I may sound a little naive or "trying to make things more simple than they really are" ... But these are the thoughts running thru my head.
You can try to correct me if you want, but don't judge me

[hefdaddy42]

I'm not judging you, but if that's your reply after knh's great post, then I'm not sure what else there is to say.

[kirksnosehair]

This is a very long read, but it articulates my conception of addiction in a way I would never be capable of.


I would urge anyone who isn't sure about whether Addiction is an actual medical condition or just someone being stupid.


There is more and more science on this that supports the medical condition diagnosis, specifically they (researchers, scientists, etc) refer to it as a "Brain Disorder"