R.I.P. Philip Seymour Hoffman

[puppyonacid]

Must be great being part of the very small minority of people in the Western world that is not addicted to anything and completely emotionally stable.

I say there but for the grace of God (or whatever) go I.

Really sad. Seemed like a nice guy and I've liked him in everything I've seen him in.

[jcmistat]

Just watched The Master last week. Little shocked to know that hes now dead. RIP.

[Perpetual Change]

That's really too bad. Such a waste.

It's amazing how all these wealthy celebs wind up turning to these highly dangerous substances. I don't know why it happens, but I'd imagine being wealthy and famous comes with a certain level of arrogance where they start to be able to tell themselves (subconsciously or otherwise) that they're too smart and successful to become addicts or overdose.

[rumborak]

Tempus,

with you on that one. Once you're addicted of course there's very little you can do with those kinds of substances, but the question is, what kind of moron do you have to be in this day and age to even try them?
And especially, how weak of a character are you when you start taking heroin while raising three children?

[El Barto]

Two points regarding Tempus and Rumborak: the percentage of people who get addicted to heroin is actually pretty low. The overwhelming majority of people who try it walk away from it. Seems to be about 23% that turn into junkies. Personally, I'm not crazy about those odds, but frankly cigarettes and pain pills should be considered a greater risk to get started on, and while we've now started calling people who smart smoking dumbasses, that's a relatively new trend and I'm willing to be all three of us were smokers at one point. As for pain killers, hell, doctors tell you to take those, often times without even really discussing the risks involved. After the transplant my sister was strung out on hydrocodone for 2 weeks because they never bothered to tell her that even small doses over 3 days would pose a problem.

Which leads to the other point. It seems to be that prescription pain meds were what got PSH back on heroin, which is actually pretty understandable. I'd say he and his doctor both share the blame in that one; don't give a recovering junky opiates in any form!

To be clear, PSH caused his own death, but there were definitely other factors at work, and I'm not prepared to call him a dumbass over what happened. He fought off his addiction once before, and if he hadn't croaked might well have again. If he hadn't started on pain pills, then he never would have gotten back into H. If (assuming this turns out to be the case) he was shooting hyper-potent H he likely wouldn't have overdosed and might have gone on to shake off his troubles yet again.

[Dublagent66]

It's all about addictive personalities.  They come from all walks of life.  Not just the rich and famous.  He suffered from addiction for a long time and it caught up to him.  It's too bad.  He was a gifted talent.  Thoughts go out to his family.

[Dream Team]

Pisses me off when such talented people waste their life with drugs.

The amazing thing is, nobody ever learns. He's like the umpteenth celeb to die like this.

[Perpetual Change]

Two points regarding Tempus and Rumborak: the percentage of people who get addicted to heroin is actually pretty low. The overwhelming majority of people who try it walk away from it. Seems to be about 23% that turn into junkies. Personally, I'm not crazy about those odds, but frankly cigarettes and pain pills should be considered a greater risk to get started on, and while we've now started calling people who smart smoking dumbasses, that's a relatively new trend and I'm willing to be all three of us were smokers at one point. As for pain killers, hell, doctors tell you to take those, often times without even really discussing the risks involved. After the transplant my sister was strung out on hydrocodone for 2 weeks because they never bothered to tell her that even small doses over 3 days would pose a problem.

Which leads to the other point. It seems to be that prescription pain meds were what got PSH back on heroin, which is actually pretty understandable. I'd say he and his doctor both share the blame in that one; don't give a recovering junky opiates in any form!

To be clear, PSH caused his own death, but there were definitely other factors at work, and I'm not prepared to call him a dumbass over what happened. He fought off his addiction once before, and if he hadn't croaked might well have again. If he hadn't started on pain pills, then he never would have gotten back into H. If (assuming this turns out to be the case) he was shooting hyper-potent H he likely wouldn't have overdosed and might have gone on to shake off his troubles yet again.

Lots to think about, Barto. I don't think many posters on this site are blue collar laborer type guys, but from what I've noticed it's very easy for their lives to spiral out of control once they get hurt and go on pain meds. There seems to be a double standard about what kinds of drugs are allowed, and what kinds aren't. Thinking of that Obama interview recently, one of the interesting takeaways for me wasn't what the president said about pot, but more what he said about alcohol, since we REALLY tend to turn a blind eye toward alcoholism. Heck, even caffeine. Recently, I've gone down from 4-5 cups of black coffee per day to one cup of green tea instead, and I've noticed a number of huge improvements to the way I feel and act (no more insane headaches at night long after I've had my last cup, for one).

But, as for trying H in the first place, I dunno. To do that, I think you have to either be desperate, a moron, arrogant, or some combination if not all three. As I said above, I think with these celebs it just comes with arrogance, the amount of success and money allowing them to say, "Yeah, I'm too smart to get hooked on something".

[El Barto]

Two points regarding Tempus and Rumborak: the percentage of people who get addicted to heroin is actually pretty low. The overwhelming majority of people who try it walk away from it. Seems to be about 23% that turn into junkies. Personally, I'm not crazy about those odds, but frankly cigarettes and pain pills should be considered a greater risk to get started on, and while we've now started calling people who smart smoking dumbasses, that's a relatively new trend and I'm willing to be all three of us were smokers at one point. As for pain killers, hell, doctors tell you to take those, often times without even really discussing the risks involved. After the transplant my sister was strung out on hydrocodone for 2 weeks because they never bothered to tell her that even small doses over 3 days would pose a problem.

Which leads to the other point. It seems to be that prescription pain meds were what got PSH back on heroin, which is actually pretty understandable. I'd say he and his doctor both share the blame in that one; don't give a recovering junky opiates in any form!

To be clear, PSH caused his own death, but there were definitely other factors at work, and I'm not prepared to call him a dumbass over what happened. He fought off his addiction once before, and if he hadn't croaked might well have again. If he hadn't started on pain pills, then he never would have gotten back into H. If (assuming this turns out to be the case) he was shooting hyper-potent H he likely wouldn't have overdosed and might have gone on to shake off his troubles yet again.

Lots to think about, Barto. I don't think many posters on this site are blue collar laborer type guys, but from what I've noticed it's very easy for their lives to spiral out of control once they get hurt and go on pain meds. There seems to be a double standard about what kinds of drugs are allowed, and what kinds aren't. Thinking of that Obama interview recently, one of the interesting takeaways for me wasn't what the president said about pot, but more what he said about alcohol, since we REALLY tend to turn a blind eye toward alcoholism. Heck, even caffeine. Recently, I've gone down from 4-5 cups of black coffee per day to one cup of green tea instead, and I've noticed a number of huge improvements to the way I feel and act (no more insane headaches at night long after I've had my last cup, for one).

All stuff I agree with you about. I thought Obama comparing pot and alcohol was a bad show, when I think most people would agree that alcohol is far worse. The fact that pharmaceutical companies are getting everybody they can hooked on all sorts of things while we call junkies stupid and throw them in prison for their own good seems pretty hypocritical to me.

As for the second part of your post, I'd add adventurous to your list. I suspect most people do it strictly out of curiosity. I've never had any interest in needle drugs, but if the perfect situation arose I'd be pretty keen to smoke some opium. I'm confident in my non-addictive personality, and quite honestly, opiates don't seem to have very much effect on me anyway. For me these sorts of things have always been about the experience, and as far as experiences go, that'd be a doosy.

[TioJorge]

Shame... I understand addiction, and at one point could have had the same fate (though with a different drug...needles scare the fuck out of me); but if you've been to rehab once (or more) and know that this pretty fuckin' serious drug can kill you...then it's on you. His death itself is a shame, but people calling it a 'tragedy' and seemingly having some kind of pity for him...I can't help but feel that is utter ignorance coming out of their mouths. The man is a dumbass, but so is every other drug user that is deep enough to risk their lives for such fleeting respite (myself included, of course; everyone). He's no different than any other addict and it just so happened to get him. Could have happened to any other addict. It's just a shame that I enjoyed watching him act so much; he was truly gifted and it'll be sad to not see him in movies anymore.

...and that, as they say, is that. No one will learn anything from this, the other celebrity sheep will mourn the lost talent and blah fucking blah, but in reality this won't change a god damn thing; and that is the saddest part of all.

[bout to crash]

I'm surprised to see addiction equated with stupidity here. You should know it's not even close to that simple.
And losing anyone to a drug IS a tragedy IMO. When I think about what kind of circumstances led someone to that point, it makes me sad. I'm not saying he's blameless, but why shouldn't I feel bad for the guy? He was amazingly talented and successful, had a partner and three kids and who knows what else in his life, yet he still fucking shot heroin. That's fucking sad.

Anyway, I'm more interested in mourning an amazing actor than beating the "addiction is bad" horse. No shit!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

You could say whatever you want about how irresponsible or stupid he was for doing drugs given his success in life but in the end he paid the ultimate price, his life and i'm pretty sure he didn't want his life to end like that. He obviously had problems and it's sad that he couldn't get help before it was to late.

[PuffyPat]

This thread is making me really, really upset. Being addicted to a drug isn't just something you can learn to not do. It's much more complicated than this. Yes, Philip Seymour Hoffman was addicted to drugs, and he died because of it, but being shocked that "nobody learns" when it comes to kicking a drug habit is the wrong way to react. As someone who knows people who have had to deal with heroin, it's not just something that goes away. It's a lifetime of struggle to keep away from the stuff, and even very little things can cause a relapse. From the outside looking in, it's extremely easy to write addicts off as dumb asses, but that's the wrong way to look at it. Addicts need help, and a lot of the time help needs to be of a more "tough love" nature, but that doesn't mean dismissing them as a lost cause or a wasted life. He needed help, and unfortunately, he didn't get it soon enough.

RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman.

[TioJorge]

Agree to disagree... Don't get me wrong, I understand that the death itself is a tragedy (every death is unless you're Hitler-esque); and of course it's not simple, nothing ever is. But that doesn't make him any less of a dumbass in my eyes. That's just my view, especially with the reasons you've just stated. It's sad for his family and for his friends, but none of us here knew him and while we may feel some kind of connection to him because we've seen him act, it's all horseshit in the end because none of us actually know who he really was. Clearly.

The circumstance is sad, but really? You're really more interesting in mourning what amounted to his career than looking at the fact that this is the umpteenth celebrity that has overdosed on a very serious drug? I...can't wrap my head around that. But to each their own and everyone deals with any death, even an unconnected one, in a very personal, introverted way. 'No shit' is right, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue, especially in the realm of the godly fucking celebs....eh. I mean you're right, it is a dead horse. That's why it's so god damn pathetic. The horse is now a rotting skeleton and we're forced to keep beating it because people are stupid motherfuckers.

I couldn't possibly understand any more about addiction while one still has so much to lose. I get that it's sad, it's complicated, and so on and so forth. All of that said, he's still a moron. I'm not trying to start any shit, everyone deals with these things in such different ways. Clearly mine is more...anger and frustration and "how the fuck does this keep happening" than anything else. I digress and apologize if I've offended anyone but...it's just so useless at this point. It's numbing. Whatever. You people deal with this anyway you want; assholes and opinions as they say.

Yeah. RIP. Moving on.

[Dublagent66]

Well, then you don't understand what an addictive personality is.  Like I said earlier, it happens to people from all walks of life and it really has nothing to do with being stupid or smart or even being a moron.  I'm sure he was a pretty intelligent guy who had a problem that he just couldn't overcome.  Happens to the best of them.  So, try not to judge because like you said, none of us really knew who he was on a personally level.

[Kotowboy]

Where does everyone stand on the whole " addiction is / is not a disease " debate ?

I can't answer since i've never experienced addiction.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Agree to disagree... Don't get me wrong, I understand that the death itself is a tragedy (every death is unless you're Hitler-esque); and of course it's not simple, nothing ever is. But that doesn't make him any less of a dumbass in my eyes. That's just my view, especially with the reasons you've just stated. It's sad for his family and for his friends, but none of us here knew him and while we may feel some kind of connection to him because we've seen him act, it's all horseshit in the end because none of us actually know who he really was. Clearly.

Then how can you call him a moron if you say you don't know him or know the full story behind it? Then you just jump to conclusion and judge him because taking drugs is a stupid thing therefor he must be stupid. I don't know why someone feels the need to judge someone if you don't the person in hand. He died and that's sad no matter how famous he is.

[hefdaddy42]

Personally, I'd be a little more pleased about this thread if it remained a remembrance of the life the individual in question rather than devolving into a drugs thread.

Today I finally made it a point to watch Capote, which I've owned for several years but never took the time to watch.  Fantastic film with an outstanding cast, truly deserving of all the honors it won.

Shame we won't get any more work from Hoffman.  RIP

[El Barto]

Yeah, I think this is the same thing that happened with that Jackass jackass's RIP thread. 

[Chino]

I'll be in seclusion in the west wing

[gmillerdrake]

Where does everyone stand on the whole " addiction is / is not a disease " debate ?

I think its all a choice. What you as a person carnally desire and like and may be drawn to might influence those choices greatly...and your personality may be 'addictive' or whatever, but I don't believe we are born to a fate we have no control over. I'm quite certain that'll be a controversial belief but that's my belief.

And that's coming from an alcoholic, former 'pot head'....addictive personality filled with OCD tendencies who's mothers side of the family has alcoholic/drug additcted members dating back further than Ancestry.com can find. In it's simplest form, Once upon a time I chose to be a drunk and stoner.....then I chose to confront the reasons influincing those choices.....now I choose not to be controlled by them.   

[PuffyPat]

Where does everyone stand on the whole " addiction is / is not a disease " debate ?

I think its all a choice. What you as a person carnally desire and like and may be drawn to might influence those choices greatly...and your personality may be 'addictive' or whatever, but I don't believe we are born to a fate we have no control over. I'm quite certain that'll be a controversial belief but that's my belief.

And that's coming from an alcoholic, former 'pot head'....addictive personality filled with OCD tendencies who's mothers side of the family has alcoholic/drug additcted members dating back further than Ancestry.com can find. In it's simplest form, Once upon a time I chose to be a drunk and stoner.....then I chose to confront the reasons influincing those choices.....now I choose not to be controlled by them.   

Not everyone has it as easy as you, though. I respect your point of view, but for some people it's not as easy as just choosing to stop. That may be the first step, but it can be much harder than deciding enough is enough to kick a drug habit.

[gmillerdrake]

Where does everyone stand on the whole " addiction is / is not a disease " debate ?

I think its all a choice. What you as a person carnally desire and like and may be drawn to might influence those choices greatly...and your personality may be 'addictive' or whatever, but I don't believe we are born to a fate we have no control over. I'm quite certain that'll be a controversial belief but that's my belief.

And that's coming from an alcoholic, former 'pot head'....addictive personality filled with OCD tendencies who's mothers side of the family has alcoholic/drug additcted members dating back further than Ancestry.com can find. In it's simplest form, Once upon a time I chose to be a drunk and stoner.....then I chose to confront the reasons influincing those choices.....now I choose not to be controlled by them.   

Not everyone has it as easy as you, though. I respect your point of view, but for some people it's not as easy as just choosing to stop. That may be the first step, but it can be much harder than deciding enough is enough to kick a drug habit.

Well....if I made it sound "easy" then I'm sorry for that. It's been the hardest thing in the world and the temptation will always remain I believe. But, I'm fortunate to have a good support system...which not everyone has. A very loving wife, children who inspire me to be the best 'Dad' I can be for them and a Faith that continues to strengthen as I mature.

I don't want to belittle anyone's struggle, I know it's hard. I just don't think that the control or power of addiction lies in the addiction.....I believe we have the control or power over it. It's the drug or alcohol that's convinced the individual they have no control.

[rumborak]

Btw, has anyone seen "Next Stop Wonderland"? I know it's more of a chick flick and it's totally centered around Boston, but it's my guilty pleasure, and I love PSH in it.

"There's 20 reasons why I'm breaking up with you, and I put them on this tape!"
I love the idea of a breakup VHS.

[rumborak]

Wow. They found 50 bags with heroin in his apartment.

[TempusVox]

Let me be clear. I do not think that people that are addicts are dumbasses, and certainly dont deserve to die. I personally smoked for a good chunk of my life, and know how tough that was to fight. I also had a sex addiction for many, many years and know just how easy it would be for me to fall off that cliff, so I don't, but it ain't easy sometimes. Im talking about the heroin thing specifically. If I thought it were possible for my dick to explode 25% of the time when I stuck it in a woman, you can bet my hand would be well callused by now. And when I started smoking (which was a stupid assed thing for me to do) had someone told me there was a one in four chance that I wind up losing my friends, family, freedom, or life at an early age you can bet you sweet ass Id have never lit up. When were young and our most vulnerable, we all engage in risky and bonehead behavior from time to time, but no one had to tell me to never pick up a needle and dance with Mr. Brownstone. That is some messed up shit. People claim addictions are because of personality disorders. I've never understood that. I have to have a constant supply of vicodin. Due to serious osteoarthritis I cant do without it. Generally, I can make it a couple of weeks without taking it. Some days I may take 3, which is the maximum daily dose I can take.  But I only take it when the pain is so bad that I can barely stand, or walk. I hate taking that shit, so I rarely do, but if I had a so called addictive personality, then I'd take more and more of them to get high. I don't. I recently had a number of surgeries and was prescribed Percocet. After the third day I stopped taking them because they had me so wired I couldnt sleep. My point is, knowing the risks associated with heroin, its just a very stupid play to try it in the first place. I feel terrible for those who have an addiction. But heroin and drugs like crack and meth are fucked up. Why even try that shit? Thats what I dont understand.

[El Barto]

I was just pointing out that there are several people to blame, including PSH, but dumping the entire thing on him because he got himself hooked 25 years ago seems a little harsh. As you said, young people are fearless, indestructible and make foolish decisions. If he's to blame, that's where the blame starts.

As for the stupidity of trying in the first place, like I said earlier, there's an adventurer plenty of us. People assume, sometimes incorrectly, that it won't happen to them. Seatbelts, smoking, skydiving, and yes, heroin. Usually it doesn't, but some people draw the low card. Even then they often manage to fight their way out of it. Like you, I never had the desire to shoot up, but like you I've engaged in a ton of risky behavior. If one of those behaviors got me killed, I suppose it'd be reasonable for people here to call me a jackass, but I'd hope that they also considered their own risks and fortunes while they're doing it.

[TempusVox]

Excellent points. I agree 100%. I have a tendency to react harshly when I hear about these things because of the talent gone and wasted. But I also react the same when I hear someone young od'd on the news. A good friend of mine shot himself when I was in college. He killed himself with a shotgun about ten minutes after I spoke to him on the phone. He even made plans to get together with me the next night. There were no cries for help, or clues. It took me more than 20 years for me to finally forgive him for his selfishness. I still miss my friend. So I guess I equate heroin abuse as a slow form of suicide. Either way you slice it, its tragic as hell. Its also selfish for us to mourn PSH and curse his addiction because he wont be around to make more movies, when the saddest part is his demons took him from those who knew and loved him.

[adastra]

One less junkie..

[MetalJunkie]

I'm surprised to see addiction equated with stupidity here.

It's not the addiction that's stupid. It's trying it in the first place.

[Kotowboy]

A friend of mine once pointed out that the only thing you get out of smoking is you satisfy your urge to smoke - which you only have because you started smoking in the first place.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

One less junkie..

You talk like he was somekind of menace or something, the only threat he perceived as was to himself which resulted in him losing his life. I've said it before but it's the ultimate price you pay for whatever stupid thing you'll do and i'm pretty sure that most people would agree that there's far worse things you could do that deserves your life to be taken.

[rickhawk80]

One less junkie..

That's a pretty asinine comment.  How's the view from your ivory tower?

[hefdaddy42]

Followed up Capote with Mission:Impossible III.  I know, not his best, but still good, and the only other one of his films I actually own.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Haven't seen Capote yet so that needs to change.