Author Topic: Why am I responsible for my credit?  (Read 1344 times)

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Offline Scheavo

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Why am I responsible for my credit?
« on: January 17, 2014, 08:09:03 AM »
Not sure if this fully deserves to be in P/R, but I originally thought of it in a political light, so I figure I'd put it here.

Anyways, I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind making me and other people responsible for their personal credit. The best argument I can come up with is practicality and effectiveness. But legally speaking, it baffles me. How is it that a company, perhaps even one I've never given permission to do anything under my name with, can charge me and tarnish my name, negatively effecting me, and then it be upon ME to prove otherwise or to pay the consequences? It would seem to me the company is at fault for having shitty pracctices to verify information. Shouldn't they have to prove my guilt, instead of me having to try and prove my innocence? It seems like a fundamental perversion of our basic legal expectations in this country.

Well, I suppose it can get more complicated then that. I know my parents have had trouble twice with their credit, and they basically said it wasn't them and it was accepted. They still had to jump through a lot of hoops. BUT if they had waited longer, they would've had to do more, which also just gets harder and harder as time goes by. It still seems to me as if some of the onus is going to be put on the wrong person.

Anyone making a claim has the burden of proof - if a company claims that I did something, it better have proof that I did it, not easily stolen, or begotten information about me.


Thoughts?

Offline El Barto

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 08:24:14 AM »
In the old days it made sense. I remember when getting a credit card or money out of a bank was a difficult thing to do. You had to have already established credit worthiness. If they gave you money and you blew it, they were out, so they were pretty picky about who they handed cash to. However, once the paradigm changed to everybody being in debt all the time, and Chase, Citi and Bank One started handing out credit cards to nitwit 18 year olds, it seems that the onus should have shifted back to them. They're the ones making stupid decisions about who gets credit, and they have no real downside since the government now bails out bad credit for them. Same with mortgages. You start loaning people money for homes they can't possibly afford, it should be your ass when you have to foreclose on them. Instead, because personal accountability has been hammered into our skulls for 200 years, we have just sort of accepted that the lenders have no responsibility for their own bad decisions. Honestly, this really pisses me off.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 11:00:30 AM »
I agree with the sentiment being expressed by El Barto and Scheavo.  Predatory lending has been a huge problem in this country for ages.  I'll tell you what's absolutely ridiculous, but 100% true:  I know of at least two shylarks I could go to for cash whenever I need it and the interest rate they'd charge me is about 1/2 of what most credit cards charge in interest if you carry a balance.






Offline eric42434224

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 11:30:13 AM »
I agree with the sentiment being expressed by El Barto and Scheavo.  Predatory lending has been a huge problem in this country for ages.  I'll tell you what's absolutely ridiculous, but 100% true:  I know of at least two shylarks I could go to for cash whenever I need it and the interest rate they'd charge me is about 1/2 of what most credit cards charge in interest if you carry a balance.

Apples and oranges dude.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 02:27:18 PM »
Yeah, the skylarks have a fucking soul.
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Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 05:53:33 PM »
The stupid thing is, all these pay-day lenders have popped up now to give anyone, anywhere money at 1000% and over APR, So because you got a bad name for whatever reason, people are forced to loan money they cant afford... Ridiculous really

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 11:07:43 AM »
Who else should be responsible for your credit other than you? I agree it's a pain sometimes to have to deal with things that mistakenly or maliciously show up on your credit report, but no one is going to take ownership of it other than you.

What I do think is ridiculous is that you can't get your credit score for free. You can get your credit report free once a year, but not your score. That's wrong in my opinion.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 12:40:22 PM »
Who else should be responsible for your credit other than you? I agree it's a pain sometimes to have to deal with things that mistakenly or maliciously show up on your credit report, but no one is going to take ownership of it other than you.

But why is it "mine"? And why am I being held responsible for things I did not do? Nothing else in our society works like that, where a third party entity gets to do something and make me responsible. If a random ass person called you up and said you owed them $XXX you'd tell them to fuck off. A "creditor" does it, and they can ruin your ability to get loans, buy a house, even get a job.

The person responsible should be the parties involved in the actual act. The creditor should be responsible, it's their money they're giving out. They already do this a little, and there's identity protection programs out there. But why should I pay for that service? Why should the creditor not be the one who pays the price to protect their money? If my card suddently got used in Europe, I'd get a call cause thats abnormal and they want to check it out. They do that already. So why don't they do that more and in all cases? There are ways to do this that don't offload the responsibility to the consumer.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
Now you lost me. It sounds like you're asking why you shouldn't be allowed to abscond with money you borrow without any consequences. If I ask you if you want to borrow $50 and you say yes, well then it probably is my responsibility to see to it that you pay me back. One thing I might do is post a message on DTF saying "warning, don't loan Scheavo any money--dude's a deadbeat!" In essence that's all the credit report is doing. I get what you're saying about it being the lender's responsibility, but to that end putting you on a list of credit deadbeats is one of their methods.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 12:49:20 PM »
Except I doubt you signed an agreement with a random ass person to pay them a certain amount if you didn't pay them such-and-such by a certain date. 

That aside, I agree with lordxizor that it is baloney that we have to pay to get our credit score.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2014, 12:58:40 PM »
Now you lost me. It sounds like you're asking why you shouldn't be allowed to abscond with money you borrow without any consequences. If I ask you if you want to borrow $50 and you say yes, well then it probably is my responsibility to see to it that you pay me back. One thing I might do is post a message on DTF saying "warning, don't loan Scheavo any money--dude's a deadbeat!" In essence that's all the credit report is doing. I get what you're saying about it being the lender's responsibility, but to that end putting you on a list of credit deadbeats is one of their methods.

Except I doubt you signed an agreement with a random ass person to pay them a certain amount if you didn't pay them such-and-such by a certain date. 

That aside, I agree with lordxizor that it is baloney that we have to pay to get our credit score.

Think I'm being misunderstood then, or that I improperly worded it.

I have no problem with creditors, who have legitimate proof, giving you a bad name or expecting you to pay them back. What I have a problem with is the verification process we currently use as "proof." Theyre flimsy and obviously very hackable and easy to steal. I don't see why it is that I can be held accountable because society and companies in general have not devised a secure line of credit.

@Kev: that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a random ass dude signing an agreement in your name with another random ass dude, and then being held accountable for that agreement.

I thnk my use of quotation marks got misunderstood. What I meant by "creditor" is that they think you got credit from them, but you really didn't. THey want to be a creditor to you, but they are in fact a creditor to someone else who claimed to be me, and they didn't have a stringent enough protocol to reliably verify my identity.




Offline El Barto

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2014, 02:28:20 PM »
Alright. You're asking why you have to be responsible for the actions of identity thieves, when it should be the obligation of the creditors to confirm that they are you. Reasonable question.
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2014, 04:53:49 PM »
Oh, that is a good question.  Especially since it is such a huge mess to resolve.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 08:53:56 PM »
Alright. You're asking why you have to be responsible for the actions of identity thieves, when it should be the obligation of the creditors to confirm that they are you. Reasonable question.

I think your original answer is rather close to the reason, still. I can't help but feel that there's governmental corruption involved in this, or at least, a non-corrupt government would have dealt with this issue in a better way.

I wish the general conservative movement in this country could be more amendable towards government, and stop treating our currently corrupt government as the definition of government in general.


Online cramx3

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Re: Why am I responsible for my credit?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 04:00:13 PM »
Alright. You're asking why you have to be responsible for the actions of identity thieves, when it should be the obligation of the creditors to confirm that they are you. Reasonable question.

I think that's a good and valid question.  To dig a bit deeper, what are the reasons for the identity theft?  If part of the blame lies on the victim (ex. setting their password to sensitive websites like e-mail or online banking to "password" or the victim left their credit card on the train) then maybe the victim should have some responsibility, but for something like the target hack, that should not be on the victim.  And to add, as a target credit card holder, they seemed to be doing a good job with giving everyone free credit reports and whatnot to help.