Is Pot a Gateway Drug?

[Prog Snob]

.

@el barto, since you are obviously the go-to person on all things logical, I'll be sure to run all my posts past you prior to submission just so that they meet your high standards.

That was uncalled for.   Then you wonder why you feel like you're being slighted....

[Dark Castle]

Barto was just letting you know why people could possibly be offended, because you're pretty much calling some members here "fucking idiots", he wasn't taking a swipe at you, like you feel the need to do so with him.

You can have your own opinion, and you can most definitely share it, but you also have to be prepared for people to call you out, disagree, and give their views. That's something you learn in like High School debate dude. If you can't handle other people disagreeing with you and have to take swipes at everybody and accuse them of snuffing out your right to an opinion, maybe it's better to just keep it to yourself. 

[bosk1]

Look, few people here have opinions more generally offensive than me. At the same time, I craft them in such a way that they don't personally attack other members and people seem to be just fine with that.

This is the key.  To all in this thread, you need to make more of an effort to express your side in a nonconfrontational way that does not personally attack others.  Tapsmiled, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are becoming increasingly passive-aggressive and condescending with remarks like the ones you made to Barto, for example.  And on the other side, some of the comments aimed at Tapsmiled have been inappropriate as well.  For example, Kev should not be calling someone on the forum "obtuse."  That is just going to throw more fuel on the fire instead of helping.

That being said, I don't think anyone in this thread is intending it to go in the direction it is going.  I will re-open it, but please heed this general warning.  The above examples are not meant to single anyone out, but are (hopefully) helpful examples of what not to do. 

[bout to crash]

Look, tapsmiled:
Unless you can point out the post where somebody told you that you aren't entitled to your opinion, get over it. When you post things, people respond to them. Obviously you posted something that pissed off some people, and they reacted- what else are they supposed to do? That's what forums are for- discussion of opinions. My opinion is that you're reacting defensively right now because you don't want to admit that maybe you could have phrased things a little differently and maybe you came off as extremely judgmental. You can be those things if you want, but don't get upset when people call you out on it. The mature thing to do would have been to say something like, I dunno, "I'm sorry my opinion came off that way, let's move on"... but instead you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a diatribe on why you should be able to have your opinion. We know that, and we disagree with it. It's the internet. Nobody is repressing you.


Now can we please get back on fucking topic?

[tapsmiled]

Thank you Bosk, and I will temper my responses.

Simply stated, I don't feel that it is reasonable that people should be expected to temper their opinions out of fear of offending others. Yes, I called people "fucking idiots", but if you don't agree or feel that my position is warranted, you are entitled to that belief.  It doesn't mean the pitchforks should come out.

I have worked in a police department for 19 years, and I happen to think that people who knowingly and regularly violate the law are idiots.  Unless you live in a place where drugs are legal or have a doctor's prescription, smoking pot is illegal.  Is it akin to murder or robbery?  No, of course not. I didn't condemn pot smokers to death; I called them a name. Stating my opinion, particularly when it is contrary to your own, doesn't mean I lack logic. Perhaps I didn't have the time to make a lengthy dissertation defending and explaining my position; I obviously missed that new rule around here. I popped online, saw a topic that I wished to comment on, and made a comment...however brief and general.

[tapsmiled]

Look, tapsmiled:
Unless you can point out the post where somebody told you that you aren't entitled to your opinion, get over it. When you post things, people respond to them. Obviously you posted something that pissed off some people, and they reacted- what else are they supposed to do? That's what forums are for- discussion of opinions. My opinion is that you're reacting defensively right now because you don't want to admit that maybe you could have phrased things a little differently and maybe you came off as extremely judgmental. You can be those things if you want, but don't get upset when people call you out on it. The mature thing to do would have been to say something like, I dunno, "I'm sorry my opinion came off that way, let's move on"... but instead you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a diatribe on why you should be able to have your opinion. We know that, and we disagree with it. It's the internet. Nobody is repressing you.


Now can we please get back on fucking topic?

You mean other than being called pleb, clueless, and douchey?

Even back from the old board, I have always enjoyed your posts as much as anyone on the board, but I was definitely called out. I have thick skin, and I recognize that others might disagree. Do I acknowledge that my view is judgmental?  Sure. I'm judgemental of people who like Justin Bieber too. Does that mean I have to qualify every statement I make?


And out of respect of your request, I do believe it is a gateway drug. No one wakes up thinking, "today I will become an addict".  People are inquisitive, try something, and have a reaction. Maybe that reaction is, "ehh, I didn't like it" or maybe it's "BEST NIGHT EVERRR". I would imagine that the best night ever group is apt to repeat that experience, and there's always someone around who doesn't know when to stop.  I think that is how harder drugs or more frequent use become a factor. Those things coupled with, from my experiences, an inability to cope with life's difficulties can easily lead to drugs beyond pot. 

My father and step-father were both hardcore alcoholics. And the same traits they exhibited with alcohol are the same things I have seen in others that smoke pot. 

[bosk1]

Tapsmiled, the thread isn't about you.  It is about the topic.  The situation has been addressed, so please stop making it personal and get back to the topic at hand.  Thanks.

[puppyonacid]

I want to apologise for calling you a pleb. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said it and it was unfair.

I'm also going to change my answer to the OP. Yes pot is most definitely a gateway drug..........to heated debate and polarised opinions.

[tapsmiled]

Tapsmiled, the thread isn't about you.  It is about the topic.  The situation has been addressed, so please stop making it personal and get back to the topic at hand.  Thanks.

I modified my previous post to address that very issue.

[tapsmiled]

I want to apologise for calling you a pleb. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said it and it was unfair.

I'm also going to change my answer to the OP. Yes pot is most definitely a gateway drug..........to heated debate and polarised opinions.

Thank you. Apology accepted.

[KevShmev]

  Yes pot is most definitely a gateway drug..........to heated debate and polarised opinions.

 

Personally, I don't smoke pot, but if adults want to do it on occasion to mellow out or whatever, that is okay by me.  But if you are someone who just has to get high on an almost daily basis, that, to me, is a problem.  I have worked with people like that before, and not surprisingly, they are lazy loafers who have one goal in life: to make enough money to get high every day.  More power to 'em, as we all have the right to live our life however we choose, but you can't tell me that daily smoke-out sessions don't suck the energy and will to do more out of you.
 

[hefdaddy42]

I spent several years involved in the local music scene, and yes, perhaps my sample size of dozens is somewhat restricted to pothead musicians

There you go.  Your problem isn't with adults who smoke.  It's with musicians.

[El Barto]

Thank you Bosk, and I will temper my responses.

Simply stated, I don't feel that it is reasonable that people should be expected to temper their opinions out of fear of offending others. Yes, I called people "fucking idiots", but if you don't agree or feel that my position is warranted, you are entitled to that belief.  It doesn't mean the pitchforks should come out.

Hypothetically speaking, of course, do you think it would be reasonable for me to post "it is my personal opinion that Tapsmiled is a real asshole, unworthy of life?" That would get me banned and rightly so. Don't temper your opinions on matters; temper your posts expressing them.

I have worked in a police department for 19 years, and I happen to think that people who knowingly and regularly violate the law are idiots.

This explains a great deal. It's also different than your regular post because you're not making generalized assumptions about people's motivations. You're criticizing people who violate the law.

And a general heads up, you're definitely not going to like my opinions of your coworkers and cops in general. Not one bit. 

[tapsmiled]

Thank you Bosk, and I will temper my responses.

Simply stated, I don't feel that it is reasonable that people should be expected to temper their opinions out of fear of offending others. Yes, I called people "fucking idiots", but if you don't agree or feel that my position is warranted, you are entitled to that belief.  It doesn't mean the pitchforks should come out.

Hypothetically speaking, of course, do you think it would be reasonable for me to post "it is my personal opinion that Tapsmiled is a real asshole, unworthy of life?" That would get me banned and rightly so. Don't temper your opinions on matters; temper your posts expressing them.

I have worked in a police department for 19 years, and I happen to think that people who knowingly and regularly violate the law are idiots.

This explains a great deal. It's also different than your regular post because you're not making generalized assumptions about people's motivations. You're criticizing people who violate the law.

And a general heads up, you're definitely not going to like my opinions of your coworkers and cops in general. Not one bit. 

Don't worry, I would probably agree with your view of law enforcement.

And no, I don't mind your passive aggressive statement about your opinion of me. But as this is not about me, tally on...

[tapsmiled]

I spent several years involved in the local music scene, and yes, perhaps my sample size of dozens is somewhat restricted to pothead musicians

There you go.  Your problem isn't with adults who smoke.  It's with musicians.

This could easily be true.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

There you go.  Your problem isn't with adults who smoke.  It's with musicians.

You just made the list, buddy.

[tapsmiled]

Lighten up Frances


And yes, the irony of this post is not lost on me.

[gmillerdrake]

but you can't tell me that daily smoke-out sessions don't suck the energy and will to do more out of you.

I can only speak of my personal usage of pot....which as I mentioned was around 5 years and I stayed high all day.....I can attest that any ambition or life goals I desired were held hostage by the 'need' I percieved to be able to just smoke pot all the time. I only worked at jobs I knew I could stay high while working (i.e cutting grass/restaurant work) and even the classes I took at the community college were based around pot...I took a lot of creative writing and art classes. I had convinced myself that I could do nothing unless I was high....need to do laundry, I gotta smoke a one hit.....need to take out the trash....one hit.......need to take a shower....one hit, and on and on.

There are countless functional 'pot heads' just as there are countless functional alcoholics operating in our society. But for me, my pot use did in fact compound my depression....it did eliminate certain jobs I had offered to me because of drug testing and I would not stop doing it....and as I said it did make me 'lazy' so to speak and hinder my ambition. I don't think you can deny or argue that habitual pot smoking has an effect on your mind....and I think it's a negative effect because it alters reality. Not in an acid trippy way but just your general perception of your environment.

I can state for a fact that my views of the world when I was a 'pot head' and where I am at now in my life are compeltely opposite of one another.

[lonestar]

Well, this thread got immensly entertaining as I slept.




I think the one thing we should be addressing is the term "gateway drug". Either pot or booze can be a first step to bigger and better things, but is "gateway drug" a term that should still even be applicable, or is it, as was I think stated, a product of the misguided '80s line of thinking on drugs?

[CrimsonSunrise]

I think the one thing we should be addressing is the term "gateway drug". Either pot or booze can be a first step to bigger and better things, but is "gateway drug" a term that should still even be applicable, or is it, as was I think stated, a product of the misguided '80s line of thinking on drugs?

Well, I think the term itself is as good as any RJ.  What should it be replaced with, or what's more applicable? 

[lonestar]

Not the term itself, but the concept behind the term. That the use of pot will eventually lead to harder drug use. As a lot of us have stated here, that concept in itself is fairly outdated thinking.

[eric42434224]

My father and step-father were both hardcore alcoholics. And the same traits they exhibited with alcohol are the same things I have seen in others that smoke pot.

The facts would disagree with you.  Hardcore alcoholics and potheads have extremely differing traits.  Perhaps your experience with potheads is not as extensive as you might want to believe...or perhaps the behavoir you attribute to substance abuse is merely a personality trait of the person or a mental/emotional issue.

[TioJorge]

Things tend to get heated, but it's nice to see that they can die down here...usually on any other forum I see that is anywhere near delicate, it ends up breaking into a mosh of morons. This place is quite singular and special. 

That said, I'm moving more and more towards an ideal that smoking when older is...ill-advised unless you are in the position to do so legally, safely, and without repercussion. I myself would absolutely love to be able to be high whenever I want...except then I realized that would be all day everyday and then I'd be dead within a couple years from drowning in a black ooze in my lungs. What I'm trying to say is that, specifically to you Tapsmiled, if someone is in the position to smoke without harming anyone else (AKA they're not lighting up in front of their kids, they're not at work, etc.), why would that make them morons? I mean, I know you probably worded that a bit too harshly and I of all people know that words can get away from you, but let's for a moment say that you stick to your wording of that (I've read most of the thread but skimmed it so I may have missed something).

Logically, rationally, why would that pot-smoking adult, who is, let us say, in his backyard in Colorado, with a (obtained through sketchy means or not) legal document allowing him to smoke, be seen as a moron to you? Or however you worded it... Either way, what is wrong with that if all things are in place and he is within his rights? Is it a moral thing, or perhaps just the fact that he is an adult? I'm genuinely interested. Mainly because I myself am moving towards a mindset that, for me at least, it would be a negative impact to me to continue smoking. Then again, I am not in a position to do so comfortably or without it affecting my life in a negative way in some way. I'm nearly 25 and feel like a teenager still, and I was okay with that until recent events. I digress. I'm maturing in my own way and I'll always be a kid at heart, and I know that if I take even a single hit of weed that I'll be out buying ounces and bongs before I know it.

So, with all that said, I still think that if there's a time in my life that I can smoke marijuana without breaking the law, without affecting my job or my health or my friends/family, I still wouldn't because of the affect it would have on my mental state and me, myself personally. But I wouldn't ever project that type of thinking onto someone else who can do the same and still be completely okay with themselves. Why does it matter so much to you that others would to the point you think they're idiots/foolish/etc.?

[CrimsonSunrise]

Not the term itself, but the concept behind the term. That the use of pot will eventually lead to harder drug use. As a lot of us have stated here, that concept in itself is fairly outdated thinking.

Ahhhh... my bad, I misunderstood you.   I still believe the gateway concept is real.  Does it apply to everyone?  No, but it does apply to a lot of folks I think, as does cross addiction (which is a whole different beast).

[lonestar]

Oooh, cross addiction, one of my favorite pitfalls in life.

"I'm all good, I quit meth, the twelve pack and bottle of Jager a night are harmless......."

[El Barto]

Not the term itself, but the concept behind the term. That the use of pot will eventually lead to harder drug use. As a lot of us have stated here, that concept in itself is fairly outdated thinking.

Ahhhh... my bad, I misunderstood you.   I still believe the gateway concept is real.  Does it apply to everyone?  No, but it does apply to a lot of folks I think, as does cross addiction (which is a whole different beast).

Did you ever elaborate on why you think this? Seems a lot of people have pointed to why there's not really any logical basis for it, so it makes me curious when rational people suggest otherwise.

[CrimsonSunrise]

You mean elaboration beyond my earlier post?  (end of page 3 I think). 

[El Barto]

You mean elaboration beyond my earlier post?  (end of page 3 I think).

Nope. I was just being lazy and didn't want to re-read through the preceding trainwreck.

I can only speak about personal experience.  For me, Pot was a gateway drug.  I would have not just started taking hallucinogens, coke and opiates for the hell of it.  Pot use for me was an escape, it was my coping mechanism as a kid.  In my mid teens I needed more than just pot.  Everyone's different and I envy folks who have smoked for years and are able to do it in a social setting, with no  cross addiction or "gateway" issues.

I see where you're coming from, and I don't dispute your perspective on the matter. I do think that it wasn't pot which should be considered the gateway, though. I think it was your need to better cope that was the gateway (which is no different than my interest in doing something new, or "broadening one's horizons" as I often say). Pot was just apparently the first means to do that, but it seems unlikely that it "had to be" pot, nor that pot had to have caused it. And out of curiosity, had you not drank before then, as that seems to be a common escape mechanism?

[Tick]

My father and step-father were both hardcore alcoholics. And the same traits they exhibited with alcohol are the same things I have seen in others that smoke pot.

The facts would disagree with you.  Hardcore alcoholics and potheads have extremely differing traits.  Perhaps your experience with potheads is not as extensive as you might want to believe...or perhaps the behavoir you attribute to substance abuse is merely a personality trait of the person or a mental/emotional issue.

Yeah, for me personally I see absolutely no similarity between the alcoholic and the pot head. My dad was a hardcore alcoholic and a violent drunk. I only wish he was a pothead instead! I personally have never seen a pot smoker who smokes weed than get angry and violent....never.

[lonestar]

Nope, that happens when they run out of weed.

[Podaar]

One thing I think that could be added to the discussion is opportunity. Colorado notwithstanding, pot is illegal almost everywhere and the pot-curious newcomer is typically forced to deal with shadowy people who are likely to be dealing harder drugs as well. This probably puts them in situations where they are around others who are taking the harder drugs too.

It seems to me that someone who is self medicating with drugs (for whatever reason) is basically being forced into situations, by our laws, that put them in arms reach of nastier drugs. Perhaps pot consumption could be considered a gateway for this reason. It stands to reason that if one could simply go to the liquor store or the local Walgreens to get a box of blunts they'd be less likely to consider stepping up to meth or opiates (for example).

I don't know. I lived through the drug culture of the '70's and '80's without really being tempted so I'm probably not a good judge. Yeah, I did a little of nearly everything but the expense and side effects always turned me away from anything more than occasionally recreational usage.

[Chino]

I can only speak about personal experience.  For me, Pot was a gateway drug.  I would have not just started taking hallucinogens, coke and opiates for the hell of it.  Pot use for me was an escape, it was my coping mechanism as a kid.  In my mid teens I needed more than just pot.  Everyone's different and I envy folks who have smoked for years and are able to do it in a social setting, with no  cross addiction or "gateway" issues.

I see where you're coming from, and I don't dispute your perspective on the matter. I do think that it wasn't pot which should be considered the gateway, though. I think it was your need to better cope that was the gateway (which is no different than my interest in doing something new, or "broadening one's horizons" as I often say). Pot was just apparently the first means to do that, but it seems unlikely that it "had to be" pot, nor that pot had to have caused it. And out of curiosity, had you not drank before then, as that seems to be a common escape mechanism?

I've feel this way as well. Say the marijuana plant didn't exist, someone who would have tried pot first would more than likely have tried the next least harmful substance instead. In that world, that substance would be being called the gateway drug.

[Tick]

I can only speak about personal experience.  For me, Pot was a gateway drug.  I would have not just started taking hallucinogens, coke and opiates for the hell of it.  Pot use for me was an escape, it was my coping mechanism as a kid.  In my mid teens I needed more than just pot.  Everyone's different and I envy folks who have smoked for years and are able to do it in a social setting, with no  cross addiction or "gateway" issues.

I see where you're coming from, and I don't dispute your perspective on the matter. I do think that it wasn't pot which should be considered the gateway, though. I think it was your need to better cope that was the gateway (which is no different than my interest in doing something new, or "broadening one's horizons" as I often say). Pot was just apparently the first means to do that, but it seems unlikely that it "had to be" pot, nor that pot had to have caused it. And out of curiosity, had you not drank before then, as that seems to be a common escape mechanism?

I've feel this way as well. Say the marijuana plant didn't exist, someone who would have tried pot first would more than likely have tried the next least harmful substance instead. In that world, that substance would be being called the gateway drug.

because in that world it would be!

[CrimsonSunrise]

I see where you're coming from, and I don't dispute your perspective on the matter. I do think that it wasn't pot which should be considered the gateway, though. I think it was your need to better cope that was the gateway (which is no different than my interest in doing something new, or "broadening one's horizons" as I often say). Pot was just apparently the first means to do that, but it seems unlikely that it "had to be" pot, nor that pot had to have caused it. And out of curiosity, had you not drank before then, as that seems to be a common escape mechanism?

 I started very early smoking weed, 8, and it was my coping mechanism. I didn't start drinking at all till 15 or so.   As many recovering addicts have learned through recovery, we stop growing emotionally once we become buried with a chemical addiction.  Once we stop growing, and life becomes more complex, it tends to take more to manage our lives.  For me, and a lot of others that was accomplished by expanding our chemical inventory.  So, you're correct, It doesn't have to be pot, but a lot of addicts start with one substance and move onto heavier ones as the coping needs progress.  Maybe someone starts with booze, then pills, and  alcohol is the gateway drug.  As far as it not being any substance, that anything can be described as a "Gateway"  sure!  That doesn't mean that Pot can't be.  Like I mentioned in my first post, it doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to some.  Clear as mud?    Sometimes I have a hard time articulating.....  it's all those bong rips...

[Chino]

My curiosity level is off the charts right now. Under what circumstances did you end up trying pot at 8? I didn't really even know what it was until I was 13. Didn't try it until 16.