True Detective on HBO (merged)

[gmillerdrake]

Having interesting characters was missing from season 2's formula.

Matthew McConaughey's performance of Rust Cohle is the single reason why the first season was what it was. Woody did good....writing was alright as well, but the story was just as convoluted as this one. The saving grace and reason people revere the first season the way they do is because of Rust Cohle. Had McConaughey not been the actor that first season is just another show and it doesn't get the accolades it does.

That type of performance is what was missing. Could have been the Frank character or Ray's character with some tinkering to the writing and stronger actors portraying them. Vaughn and Ferrel did fine but they were doomed before they started because of what McConaughey did first season. There was no way either of them were going to perform on that level. They needed a Cumberbatch/Crowe level actor(s) to play those roles to compete.

[cramx3]

Having interesting characters was missing from season 2's formula.

Matthew McConaughey's performance of Rust Cohle is the single reason why the first season was what it was. Woody did good....writing was alright as well, but the story was just as convoluted as this one. The saving grace and reason people revere the first season the way they do is because of Rust Cohle. Had McConaughey not been the actor that first season is just another show and it doesn't get the accolades it does.

That type of performance is what was missing. Could have been the Frank character or Ray's character with some tinkering to the writing and stronger actors portraying them. Vaughn and Ferrel did fine but they were doomed before they started because of what McConaughey did first season. There was no way either of them were going to perform on that level. They needed a Cumberbatch/Crowe level actor(s) to play those roles to compete.

I pretty much agree with this.  I will say that having essentially 4 main characters vs. 2 hurts the character development, but I really think McConaughey MADE season 1.  Show would have been good because the storyline and directing was good enough, but he alone made season 1 one of the greatest single season of a TV show ever IMO.  I still thought this season had good characters (overall) and good storyline that followed the same formula from season 1.

[Big Hath]

Season two is like the zelda 2 or super mario 2 of true detective

       

Wildly different. loved by some, disliked by many. I could see them going back to more of season one's formula for season 3

I personally really dug it for the most part though.

both games were on my top 25 list 

[BlackInk]

I think this season's story was definetely more confusing than season 1's. I didn't catch everything the first time I watched 1, but I still felt like I got the important stuff. In this season it just feels like there's sooo much that just flew right by me.

[faizoff]

Having interesting characters was missing from season 2's formula.

Matthew McConaughey's performance of Rust Cohle is the single reason why the first season was what it was. Woody did good....writing was alright as well, but the story was just as convoluted as this one. The saving grace and reason people revere the first season the way they do is because of Rust Cohle. Had McConaughey not been the actor that first season is just another show and it doesn't get the accolades it does.

That type of performance is what was missing. Could have been the Frank character or Ray's character with some tinkering to the writing and stronger actors portraying them. Vaughn and Ferrel did fine but they were doomed before they started because of what McConaughey did first season. There was no way either of them were going to perform on that level. They needed a Cumberbatch/Crowe level actor(s) to play those roles to compete.

I pretty much agree with this.  I will say that having essentially 4 main characters vs. 2 hurts the character development, but I really think McConaughey MADE season 1.  Show would have been good because the storyline and directing was good enough, but he alone made season 1 one of the greatest single season of a TV show ever IMO.  I still thought this season had good characters (overall) and good storyline that followed the same formula from season 1.

Yup I agree as well. McConnaissance made that season.

[ariich]

Finally caught the finale last night.

Holy crap, what a letdown.

I mean, I thought it was well-done.  But everybody dying was just a pisser. 

I was thinking of going back and rewatching some of the series, but now I don't see the point.

Hopefully, season 3 (if there is one) will be slightly more optimistic in its ending.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Quite unsatisfying ending.

[gmillerdrake]

Was thinking.....if you listen to the opening song lyrics they've been telling us all along that we were going to get the ending we got.

[orcus116]

Having interesting characters was missing from season 2's formula.

Matthew McConaughey's performance of Rust Cohle is the single reason why the first season was what it was. Woody did good....writing was alright as well, but the story was just as convoluted as this one. The saving grace and reason people revere the first season the way they do is because of Rust Cohle. Had McConaughey not been the actor that first season is just another show and it doesn't get the accolades it does.

I don't really understand when people say the first season was just as convoluted, it was pretty easy to follow. With this season I felt like maybe I zoned out during a scene or two and suddenly I miss something that should be crucial. Like the whole thing with the orphaned twins at the end, I had no idea where they even came into the picture or why they were important or connected to anything. I feel like this season is better watched all in a row because the subtleties of the story were so forgettable week to week.

[Big Hath]

after seeing that last episode, I wish there were more Vaughn/McAdams scenes this season.  They had infinity more chemistry than Vaughn and the actress playing his wife.

[TioJorge]

Man, after binge watching the second season, I loved this one almost as much as the first up until the final episode. The stupid fucking mistakes that two seemingly very intelligent, resourceful, adaptable guys (Frank and Ray) made just absolutely killed it for me. Ray miraculously wants to see his kid again, not for some final words of wisdom and an embrace, or to tell him the truth, but a fucking salute? Whoa. Deep stuff. Then the Mexicans randomly get Frank under a bridge, that one is either the worst timed deus ex machina there is or the episode did not properly convey that it was the Armenians (I think that's who they are...the guys that Frank paid off right before he gets caught, the ones that gave him the passport) double-crossed him to the Mexicans. Either way that too was poorly done and came out of fuckin' nowhere. Well, not out of nowhere, but the timing was just laughably convenient and clearly rushed.

I'm pretty sure that Pizzolato simply didn't want a 'happy ending' as S1 did with the main characters living; truth be told I should've known that the season was gonna be a dark one with the tag-line of "We get the world we deserve", considering the human race. I get what the season tried to do and what the message is...it just wasn't conveyed in such a brilliant fashion as S1. Had that last episode been done differently, I would've loved it. Granted, even so, the whole season wasn't the 'lightning captured in a bottle' as S1 was, and as others have said, I think (for me at least, especially given my love for McGaughnhey and Harrelson) a lot of that had to do with the characters, but also the execution of the story and the fact that it was all different directors had a massive impact on HOW that story was told, not just through the actors but through the direction as well.

Either way, it's still a good watch and it's entertaining, but it didn't stick with me like S1 did. S1 truly felt like a perfectly constructed movie that was separated into 8 different hours. S2 feels like a broken up season. I'm not too hopeful for S3, I really think that anthology series as a whole don't ever work all that well (I feel the same about American Horror Story except...that show is bottom-feeder shit compared to even this in my eyes). That idea has now been compounded. Eh! It'll be interested to see what happens, but according to Pizzolato, S3 will be the last (rather, he said that he 'can't see' himself doing more than 3 seasons) and I really don't blame him. How the fuck could anyone live up to those expectations of S1? I'd have shit myself thinking of what comes next...

Anyone else rewatch, have any different opinions?
I gotta say I loved Regina George. Who would've thought that the head mean girl would become this kick-ass, badass actor with such gravitas? I mean she's had other serious roles that showed her other side, but this was on a whole other level and I really thought she carried a lot of the season. I'm also glad that she got out alive and okay, revealing all at the end, but again, it was so rushed and by that point I really didn't care much. Then again by the time Ray and Frank were dead, it was clear that it was one of those 'okay, it wasn't ALL bad' kind of deal. We had a grain of hope.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm pretty sure that Pizzolato simply didn't want a 'happy ending' as S1 did with the main characters living; truth be told I should've known that the season was gonna be a dark one with the tag-line of "We get the world we deserve",

I think he accomplished both with the slimebag characters (Ray and Frank) getting brutally killed and the ones who were just caught in the middle (the two chics) getting away and having a chance at life.

Man, after binge watching the second season, I loved this one almost as much as the first up until the final episode. The stupid fucking mistakes that two seemingly very intelligent, resourceful, adaptable guys (Frank and Ray) made just absolutely killed it for me. Ray miraculously wants to see his kid again, not for some final words of wisdom and an embrace, or to tell him the truth, but a fucking salute? Whoa. Deep stuff. Then the Mexicans randomly get Frank under a bridge, that one is either the worst timed deus ex machina there is or the episode did not properly convey that it was the Armenians (I think that's who they are...the guys that Frank paid off right before he gets caught, the ones that gave him the passport) double-crossed him to the Mexicans. Either way that too was poorly done and came out of fuckin' nowhere. Well, not out of nowhere, but the timing was just laughably convenient and clearly rushed.

This was baffling to me as well. Especially the Mexicans finding Frank....and the fact that Frank....an apparently street savvy gangster got caught in the ol' box your car in trick when the car in front of him stopped in traffic for no reason. I agree that it seemed like poor writing or something for us to just believe the Mexicans 'found' him like that? If he was set up we should have at least gotten the hint other than a suspicious glance the two Armenians(?) gave to each other when he left.

And the entire Ray visiting his kid was predictable as well.....about as predictable as his car being tracked. I liked the second season and was highly entertained but did feel the let down a bit in the finale.

[faizoff]

Don't remember offhand but I thought the Armenians were the ones who sold out Vince Vaughn.

[TioJorge]

I know that Osip was Russian/Armenian, but I'm not sure what else to call the two dudes who sold Frank (Vaughn) the passport towards his exit. After Frank drives away right after the meeting the two give a pretty ominous look at one another. I'm not sure what nationality they are representing in the show if they aren't playing their own, which both actors are Armenian...and it really doesn't matter. Semantics. They're assholes either way, at least the bald guy that Frank always had a problem with and then is all nice with the portly one. 

[Nefarius]

Unless there are some overwhelmingly interesting casting decisions for the next season I don't think I'll continue with TD. Watching an episode feels mostly like a tedious and taxing task and not something to enjoy and look forward to.

Bleakness and corruption exceeding even real world scenarios and production value purely for the sake of production value simply don't make up for nervously convoluted storylines with a side of mystery stretched over far too much time, even with pretty good acting.

At least with S2 I didn't have to watch the insufferable Matthew McConaughey, that was a big bonus.

Greetings...
Nef

[BlackInk]

.... Yeah I think we can agree that this show is not for you..

[cramx3]

.... Yeah I think we can agree that this show is not for you..

Yea that, it's not for everyone, but the depth of the show is something that interests me.  Sign me up for season 3 if there is one.

[TioJorge]

Ditto. Probably shouldn't have wasted your time if you thought S1 was insufferable. To each their own though! Not a bad thing at all.

Although I gotta say...I envy that kind of naivety (and I don't say this as an insult in any way, shape or form) if you think that the show isn't realistic in terms of the corruption in the real world. Do they push boundaries? Fuck yeah, it's a television show with Hollywood-esque production. But there is an ocean of bleak, corrupt shit out there in the world we live in. There's only a few things that I saw as pushing that realism, most other things, including the massive rich-man orgy, I completely believe. Is it underneath every overturned rock? No...but it's out there. It's just cool to see that people still think this world isn't that fucked up cause it absolutely is. 

[Nefarius]

Nothing to envy, I know it's a thoroughly fucked up world. But for the most part the reality is endless lawsuits and the discreet exchange of money and not necessarily killing everyone. But I guess it's not drama unless someone dies.

S1 was okay albeit much too lengthy. I would have preferred it distilled and concentrated to movie length, that would have been more than enough. And I like Woody. "Insufferable" is solely reserved for MMcC, I just can't stand the man. What I liked in S2 was the music. The intro was fitting but the bar scenes were the highlights of their respective episodes.

Greetings...
Nef

[TioJorge]

Can I ask what you don't like about the guy? I mean, I was totally with you on that about five to ten years ago when all he did was sappy panty-dropping movies reserved for housewives and girly teens, but he's become a true colossus of an actor with some true talent over the years, I think. Is it just him, or his acting? I can't imagine the latter, the guy now plays all kinds of different, very serious roles.

But yes, on the topic of the realism, it's always a bit much with the killing everyone and somehow none of it goes noticed internally (or externally, in this case...the world over). Like you said though, drama, drama, drama.

[The King in Crimson]

Anyone else rewatch, have any different opinions?

I MIGHT rewatch this when it comes out on DVD/Blu-ray but as of right now I have absolutely no desire to, which was the exact opposite of the first season. I can't see my opinion changing much but maybe I'm wrong.

While I didn't hate season 2 as much as apparently 90% of the internet did, I certainly had some problems with it and I just can't imagine a rewatch clearing them up at all. Many of the problems are just so endemic to the season as a whole rather than focused on one or two small areas or sections. That makes it much harder to overlook the problems, IMO.

[cramx3]

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/matthew-mcconaughey-wants-bring-back-030607493.html

This would be so awesome, if done right as he states.

[gmillerdrake]

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/matthew-mcconaughey-wants-bring-back-030607493.html

This would be so awesome, if done right as he states.

Yep. They could write a prequel about his previous undercover work....or maybe the "missing" ten years from the first season. Get it done HBO!

[hefdaddy42]

That would be incredibly awesome.

[BlackInk]

As amazing as that character and that season of TV was, his story is done. I would not like him to return.

[gmillerdrake]

As amazing as that character and that season of TV was, his story is done. I would not like him to return.

Do you fear it would lessen the brilliant performance, by over saturation or not being able to re-capture the original 'magic' of the character?

[hefdaddy42]

As amazing as that character and that season of TV was, his story is done.

Sorry, I just don't get that.

THAT story is done.  Which was the story of that case (or cases) for that span of time.  But it's not as if he never worked any other cases in his life. 

He was a fantastic character.  Whether they actually do anything else with him or not, it makes no sense to say that this particular story is the only possible good story/case that a character that good could ever be associated with.

[gmillerdrake]

I think they could come up with an amazing season based off his prior under cover work.

[BlackInk]

As amazing as that character and that season of TV was, his story is done.

Sorry, I just don't get that.

THAT story is done.  Which was the story of that case (or cases) for that span of time.  But it's not as if he never worked any other cases in his life. 

He was a fantastic character.  Whether they actually do anything else with him or not, it makes no sense to say that this particular story is the only possible good story/case that a character that good could ever be associated with.

Yeah there's probably other cases you could show, but none would be as perfect and tailored to him specifically as a character.

If they brought him back it could be good, but I'd rather they just left that brilliant character alone. Let him live on only in that perfect season of television where his most important literal and emotional story was told and finished.

[cramx3]

You don't know that was his most important literal and emotional story.

[BlackInk]

Sure, they could make something up and say "ahaaa this is reaally his most important story totally", but come on. His character was written specifically for this one awesome vision of a story, anything more now would be an afterthought.

[cramx3]

Sure, they could make something up and say "ahaaa this is reaally his most important story totally", but come on. His character was written specifically for this one awesome vision of a story, anything more now would be an afterthought.

I can agree with that.  But I don't think it's impossible for them to write another story for his character.  Like I initially said, Im all for it if it makes sense for a good story.  Doing it just to bring the actor/character back would not be a good enough reason IMO.  I do know though that if this was done right, I would be super hyped for the next season.  As it stands now I'm just kind of meh on thinking of the next season.  I enjoyed season 2 a lot more than most, but it definitely wasn't as good as the first season.

[orcus116]

I think they could come up with an amazing season based off his prior under cover work.

I can't see that be anything other than a season of fan service that would end up as pretty good at best. As much as I love the first season after watching the second I realize that the first was lightning in a bottle.

[gmillerdrake]

I think they could come up with an amazing season based off his prior under cover work.

I can't see that be anything other than a season of fan service that would end up as pretty good at best. As much as I love the first season after watching the second I realize that the first was lightning in a bottle.

I'm sure there's a story to be written about Rust's undercover work that'd be more than 'pretty good'. Let's face it....if Matthew comes back it's fan service, but he ain't coming back unless the script is strong.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, MM wouldn't come back if it wasn't a fantastic script.

[TioJorge]

Gotta say I couldn't be more with Ink on this one. I love MM's dedication and love for the character and that says a whopping load right there, but a great story that does not make. Ink pretty much said it all but I'll add this much: Anyone that thinks they can simply "add more to the story" needs to rewatch S1. It's pretty finite. Rust has been through the wringer; by the end has had an entire paradigm shift in thinking and a massive change in character and has seemingly all but sworn off his past life. It's in his mannerisms, the way he speaks about good versus evil, his loved ones, "feeling soemthing"... Oh yeah, and they're both half dead. Especially Rust. I know they'll heal and all that but uh...he was all but gutted and leaves in a wheelchair. That's just the physical side. The last ten minutes of the show detail a totally different person than when it starts. People who loved seeing the brooding genius may not like the newly reborn Rust we see at the end.

The story is done. If the creators want to add more along with MM being all on board, that's awesome; but it'll either be a totally different Rust we see or backstory that is pigeonholed in. The latter part may not be entirely accurate but I'll be surprised if they, like Ink said, all of a sudden say "this is another important story that just HAS to be told". Nah. I really don't want this to happen because S1 is about as perfect as you can get. Anything more is just adding excess and fat.

Let it be known I'd LOVE to eat my words. Truly, I'd love it. I really doubt it though.