Author Topic: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. Singularities  (Read 30201 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #105 on: January 18, 2014, 05:13:38 PM »
Endless Sacrifice and Caught In A Web are two of my favorites, good job. Only A Matter Of Time is good, but not one of my favorites from When Dream And Day Unite.

Offline Outcrier

  • Posts: 3904
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #106 on: January 18, 2014, 06:51:06 PM »
On The Backs of Angels, a pretty normal DT song in front of Voices, Blind Faith, ACOS  :P
Outcrier: Toughest cop on the force.

Offline jakepriest

  • Posts: 3965
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2014, 06:53:44 PM »
I don't care for OAMOT and On The Backs of Angels, the first is bad imo and OTBOA is just an average song.
Other two are amazing picks.  :metal

Offline Laughingplace56

  • Posts: 627
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2014, 08:55:56 PM »
OtBoA is in the bottom tier of my top 50, but it's still in it and is a good song.

Endless Sacrifice is ok in the beginning, a little boring in the instrumental section up until the drum fill after the solos, and then from there on is fucking epic.

I LOVE CAIW. RAW power. Heavy. Driving. SO ENERGY. POWAH.

OAMoT is also my favorite from WDADU, though I still wouldn't put it this high. Love the lyrics and the instrumentation is fun.
 

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2014, 09:14:36 PM »
OtBoA is a good song but it does absolutely nothing to stand out in DT's catalog so I can never rate it too highly. ES is wonderful, I had it even higher myself. CiaW I like a lot but not thiiiis much. can't complain though. OaMoT I don't hate but I can't stand Charlie on it most especially out of the entire album.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2014, 09:35:43 PM »
I don't get the "OTBOA is average/normal/typical therefore it is not this good." It is possible that it is the median of all the discography. I don't deny that, in fact I even somewhat alluded to it in my writeup:

Honestly, this might be the best song with which to introduce someone to Dream Theater. It’s technical but doesn’t have any exceedingly long and wanky sections. James is good and probably rather inoffensive by the standards of those strange people who don’t like him. The song is itself catchy and complex.

To reiterate and clarify, if the argument goes that OTBOA is the median of the discography on all the major axes (progginess, heaviness, wankiness, length, mood, vocal style, etc.), I don't disagree with the argument.

But, to me, that isn't what makes the song good or bad or average or whatever, and it doesn't cap the esteem in which I hold it (meaning I don't say "well, OTBOA is very typical so it will never be above #40 in my list").

I judge the songs on a variety of attributes, but there are three main ones. In increasing importance: how good the composition is, how memorable the melodies are, and how it makes me feel. OTBOA is, in my opinion, a very well structured composition (it does an excellent job of building drama at the beginning, developing several ideas while building tension over the course of a few verses, then releasing tension at the chorus, building more for the next chorus with a different but still very good verse style, then bringing in a well-timed, well-structured instrumental break that also serves to build tension for the last chorus. Then tension builds again all the way to the encore, which concludes the song well while still leaving me wanting more). It has a lot of very strong and memorable melodies (the intro, the full band entrance, the first heavy riff, the first verse, the chorus, the piano solo, the outro). And, with regards to the most important and intangible attribute, it makes me feel very excited about the quality and drama of the music while also making me feel the intended variant of resigned sadness that is particularly expressed through the chorus melody (this of course having nothing to do with the lyrics, it's just how the song makes me feel).

By those standards, I think OTBOA is a top 30 DT song. The fact that it's right in the median of DT's discography doesn't play into it at all for me. Neither does the fact that it is quite similar to Pull Me Under. The fact is that, while it would be boring if DT's whole discography sounded like PMU and OTBOA, it wouldn't take anything away from the quality of any one song if it did. That is to say, the 30th song to sound like PMU could very well be the best and could very well be an excellent song, regardless of how boring it would be that it was the 30th song to sound like that. Fortunately, DT doesn't have 30 songs that sound the same, they have just these two that share these particular characteristics. And these songs are pretty easily distinguishable from each other anyway.

What I'm saying is: Yes, OTBOA is a typical DT song if there can be said to be such a thing (median of all major DT attributes). So? It's still a good song in my judgement.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2014, 09:37:10 PM »
The way I judge a song is by how much I like it.

I do not like On The Backs Of Angels as much as many other Dream Theater songs.

Therefore it ranks lower.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2014, 09:45:47 PM »
OtBoA is a good song
425 I don't disagree with you ftr

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2014, 09:55:28 PM »
Shadow Ninja: That's all well and good. I was specifically responding to:

On The Backs of Angels, a pretty normal DT song in front of Voices, Blind Faith, ACOS  :P

and somewhat to

OtBoA is a good song but it does absolutely nothing to stand out in DT's catalog so I can never rate it too highly.


Parama: I understand that you think it's good. I wasn't arguing against you on that point, I was arguing more against where you said that you can't rate it highly because it doesn't stand out. Notice the beginning of my post:

I don't get the "OTBOA is average/normal/typical therefore it is not this good."

Emphasis on the "this."
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2014, 09:58:17 PM »
Perhaps "normal" should be more properly phrased "unremarkable". I think that's the issue people have with it, it's not bad, but it does nothing to make one want to listen to it.

Not necessarily my opinion, I enjoy the song a fair bit.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2014, 10:03:22 PM »
If that is the case then I have no lengthy things to say against that. However, the impression I got was that it was because it's not a song that's somehow unusual compared to their other songs or one that doesn't sound anything like them. This I think is substantiated by the fact that the three songs Outcrier chose to mention were Voices, Blind Faith and ACOS, all of which I would identify as DT songs that don't sound at all like other songs.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Outcrier

  • Posts: 3904
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #116 on: January 19, 2014, 12:57:39 AM »
I don't get the "OTBOA is average/normal/typical therefore it is not this good." It is possible that it is the median of all the discography. I don't deny that, in fact I even somewhat alluded to it in my writeup:

Honestly, this might be the best song with which to introduce someone to Dream Theater. It’s technical but doesn’t have any exceedingly long and wanky sections. James is good and probably rather inoffensive by the standards of those strange people who don’t like him. The song is itself catchy and complex.

To reiterate and clarify, if the argument goes that OTBOA is the median of the discography on all the major axes (progginess, heaviness, wankiness, length, mood, vocal style, etc.), I don't disagree with the argument.

But, to me, that isn't what makes the song good or bad or average or whatever, and it doesn't cap the esteem in which I hold it (meaning I don't say "well, OTBOA is very typical so it will never be above #40 in my list").

I judge the songs on a variety of attributes, but there are three main ones. In increasing importance: how good the composition is, how memorable the melodies are, and how it makes me feel. OTBOA is, in my opinion, a very well structured composition (it does an excellent job of building drama at the beginning, developing several ideas while building tension over the course of a few verses, then releasing tension at the chorus, building more for the next chorus with a different but still very good verse style, then bringing in a well-timed, well-structured instrumental break that also serves to build tension for the last chorus. Then tension builds again all the way to the encore, which concludes the song well while still leaving me wanting more). It has a lot of very strong and memorable melodies (the intro, the full band entrance, the first heavy riff, the first verse, the chorus, the piano solo, the outro). And, with regards to the most important and intangible attribute, it makes me feel very excited about the quality and drama of the music while also making me feel the intended variant of resigned sadness that is particularly expressed through the chorus melody (this of course having nothing to do with the lyrics, it's just how the song makes me feel).

By those standards, I think OTBOA is a top 30 DT song. The fact that it's right in the median of DT's discography doesn't play into it at all for me. Neither does the fact that it is quite similar to Pull Me Under. The fact is that, while it would be boring if DT's whole discography sounded like PMU and OTBOA, it wouldn't take anything away from the quality of any one song if it did. That is to say, the 30th song to sound like PMU could very well be the best and could very well be an excellent song, regardless of how boring it would be that it was the 30th song to sound like that. Fortunately, DT doesn't have 30 songs that sound the same, they have just these two that share these particular characteristics. And these songs are pretty easily distinguishable from each other anyway.

What I'm saying is: Yes, OTBOA is a typical DT song if there can be said to be such a thing (median of all major DT attributes). So? It's still a good song in my judgement.

God, i know this would happen... You take these things too seriously my friend  :rollin

AND by the way things are, i'm expecting to see more of it  :-*
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:03:15 AM by Outcrier »
Outcrier: Toughest cop on the force.

Offline Outcrier

  • Posts: 3904
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #117 on: January 19, 2014, 01:37:50 AM »
Perhaps "normal" should be more properly phrased "unremarkable". I think that's the issue people have with it, it's not bad, but it does nothing to make one want to listen to it.

Not necessarily my opinion, I enjoy the song a fair bit.

Exactly and these three songs are far, FAR better than it in my book :neverusethis:
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:44:30 AM by Outcrier »
Outcrier: Toughest cop on the force.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2014, 03:39:55 AM »
Don't care for Only A Matter of Time that much. The other three are excellent though. :tup
This
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Sacul

  • Spinettapilled
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12167
  • Gender: Male
  • ¿De qué sirvió haber cruzado a nado la mar?
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2014, 05:59:32 PM »
Perhaps "normal" should be more properly phrased "unremarkable". I think that's the issue people have with it, it's not bad, but it does nothing to make one want to listen to it.

Not necessarily my opinion, I enjoy the song a fair bit.

Exactly and these three songs are far, FAR better than it in my book :neverusethis:
Totally agree, OTBoA wouldn't make my top 90.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

  • Posts: 2227
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2014, 06:01:33 PM »
Totally agree, OTBoA wouldn't make my top 90.

How many DT songs are there even? <---- Too lazy to count

It's not a remarkable song, but certainly worthy of at least that much.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #121 on: January 19, 2014, 08:06:37 PM »
Totally agree, OTBoA wouldn't make my top 90.

How many DT songs are there even? <---- Too lazy to count
100ish depending on how you consider songs (6DOIT movements or one song, ItPoE, etc.)

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

  • Posts: 2227
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #122 on: January 19, 2014, 08:17:31 PM »
Totally agree, OTBoA wouldn't make my top 90.

How many DT songs are there even? <---- Too lazy to count
100ish depending on how you consider songs (6DOIT movements or one song, ItPoE, etc.)

I personally consider SDOIT one song, as well as ITPOE. Between all their albums + ACOS + Raw Dog and Eve, I got 105 (someone correct me if I'm wrong or missed something).

My opinion still stands, On the Backs of Angels is a fine song. Probably not top 30 worthy, but at the bottom of bottom tier? Not too sure about that.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #123 on: January 19, 2014, 08:34:04 PM »
There's also the Majesty demos, the FII demos, DLPM, TLF, etc.
tl;dr DT have a lot of songs yo

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #124 on: January 19, 2014, 09:04:36 PM »
Here are four more, setting us up for a scary voyage into my top 20 starting tomorrow. I've actually been listening to DT all day, preparing my top 20 for your viewing pleasure. I've got #s 20-13 locked in, and probably #12 too. I'm still not sure about my top 11, though. I know what the 11 songs are, but I'm still writing and rewriting the order. I should have it ready to go by Saturday, though, when it is actually time for those to start appearing. Without further adieu, here are some songs that you can get mad at for being too high, too low, too high and too high, respectively.





24. The Ministry of Lost Souls

This time when I reached out my hand
It reached all the way to heaven




Images:
Yeah, I know this is a divisive one. Bring on the hate. I love it and I’m not ashamed.

The intro is massive and does a good job of introducing the main theme and setting the tone for what is to come. The clean guitar at the beginning is really pretty and works well with James’s gorgeous singing on that first verse. The vocal melodies on this song are really one of the best things about it, with this being another song of James feeling through every line and bringing tons and tons of emotion. The amount of effects and backing vocals is just right, contributing to the song in places where it is of actual significant benefit but never excessive to the point of drowning James’s natural tone, which I think they’ve been sometimes guilty of in recent years.

After the song makes its way through several verses, slowly building tension, comes the “I was the one who would not abandon you" verse, one of the two emotional centers, with James just nailing the part. Shortly thereafter comes the part you all love. The instrumental section. Which is absolutely necessary to the song and is musically quite excellent. Seriously, you build through 7 minutes of ballad (which is not just ballad for ballad’s sake, but is clearly written to build tension), and now the instrumental section is an absolutely necessary release for some of that tension. The main riff of the beginning of the instrumental section is very memorable to me, as is the unison towards the end, which leads quite well into the return of the main theme.

Now, the second part where the instrumental section proves to have been valuable. The impact of the piano section and the “Wanted to deserve a place” vocal section simply wouldn’t be the same if it wasn’t an interlude between a prog-metal instrumental section and a rather heavy chorus.

I have nowhere else to put this, so I’m just going to say that Mike’s drumming throughout the song is excellent.

Petrucci’s outro solo is one of those excellent solos where he repeats the theme of the song, modifying it all the while on his way to the conclusion. I feel like discussion of this particularly one gets lost among all the way (well-deserved, but still) Octavarium and The Best of Times gushing. Probably because so many people have some kind of seething hatred for this beautiful song.

It’s true that this is one of those songs where you feel the 15 minutes, but all 15 minutes of this song are so good that I don’t mind feeling them.

Words:
The lyrics to this song are fantastic. John came up with a great idea and executed the story well, creating in the process some beautiful and rather complex emotions, which he supports with some solid imagery, some of which is religious and others of which follow the official John Petrucci “edge of water” trope (seriously: Hollow Years. The Bigger Picture. On the Backs of Angels. The Ministry of Lost Souls. He has a thing for the edge of water).





23. Scarred

Thirty years say we’re in this together
So open your eyes




Images:
The epic of the Awake album, and one of my very favorites on that album. The song begins with a jazzy and atmospheric set of melodies played by Kevin and the Johns, with Petrucci being particularly deserving of notice.

Then James comes in with his gorgeous breathy vocals and slowly builds in intensity over time. Finally, around the 2:10 mark, the song becomes heavy and intense, and that’s where the real fun begins. James, for the last time for a while on a DT record, pulls out the super-aggressive voice. And this may be his best use of it ever. Like always, the aggressive voice is brutal and emotional, but at the same time acrobatic and beautiful. In this song, James also delivers the most beautifully metal vocal line in the entire DT discography: “I show you my hands, you don’t see the scars, maybe you’ll leave me here to burn.” Of course, he alternates all these punishing heavy sections with pretty and clean vocals, just as the band does.

The chorus is actually one of my favorite parts of the song. I like the interplay between the “Blood… Fear… Belief” parts and the “Heal me… Change me… Will always save me” parts. And I like how they take almost 5 minutes to get to the chorus.

The “Do you feel” section is another intensely emotional section carried by Mr. LaBrie’s brilliant singing. I love it.

The instrumental section isn’t the best ever but it’s still got the excellent riff and good solos from Kevin and John.

Another one of the best parts of the song is actually the fade section. This is one of the best Dream Theater fades, second probably only to Learning to Live. Kevin Moore brilliantly carries out the finale of the last full-band song in which he will appear for Dream Theater.

Words:
The lyrics are among John’s best at striking the “beautiful imagery/good storyline” balance. Really, a lot of the imagery is quite striking (namely the aforementioned “I show you my hands, you don’t see the scars…” part), but at the same time, the song’s meaning is fairly evident and well told. Not much else to say other than to reiterate that these are some of John Petrucci’s best lyrics.





22. These Walls

Watch me crawl from the wreckage of my silence
Conversation failing




Images:
Inb4 random Lucien appearance to tell me that it’s too low.

This song has a strange quality about its sound. The guitar is heavily downtuned, which would imply that this is a heavy song. But the keyboards really float on top of the riffing to make this song actually sound quite light and fluffy. Regardless, this is one of the most beautiful DT songs in this length range. The aforementioned keyboard playing is excellent, and James’s singing is beautiful and emotional. This song is really just very vibrant and pretty. Like many of the songs on Octavarium, actually, the overall sound of the song in addition to the guitar and keyboard tones sound like the album art looks, if that makes sense. The artwork is very fitting, is what I’m implying, because the song is so lush and so beautiful.

The vocal melodies of this song are stellar. They carry the emotion of the lyrics while being tremendously pretty and catchy. They also move in and out of the lead role very nicely with the keyboards and the guitar solo.

The aesthetic result of all the elements of this song is a composition that is very accessible and poppy while also being melodically rich and just a tinge metallic. In short, this is a song that everyone should love, so if you don’t love it, you should feel bad.

Honestly, I could see this song falling somewhat higher for me. I mean, I’m happy with the placement of it and of the songs that are ahead of it, but it is just such a good song. Lucien, if you decide to make a random appearance in my thread, I can honestly completely understand and partially agree with why this is your number one even if it is ultimately not that for me.

Words:
The lyrics to this song are exceedingly relatable for me because I have social anxiety disorder and have struggled with basically the exact issues that the lyrics talk about (they’re well-phrased, too). Particularly relevant are the two “Watch me…” verses and lines like “Captive inside of me/All emotions start to hide,” “This is so hard for me/To find the words to say” and “Each time I try to speak/There’s a voice I’m hearing/And it changes everything."





21. 6:00

So many ways to drown a man
So many ways to drag him down




Images:
The drum intro to this song is one of the most memorable beginnings for any Dream Theater song. It’s actually my alarm on my phone, since I wake up at six o’clock every morning. Unfortunately this results in me getting a little startled whenever I listen to the beginning of the actual song, but it’s a relatively minor side effect.

The first minute of the song is truly brilliant on the part of Kevin, Mike and the Johns, with Myung particularly standing out. James’s entrance is excellent, with the aggressive vocal style setting the tone for the entire Awake album. He really just kills it all over this track, thanks also in no small part to Kevin’s memorable vocal melodies.

The instrumentation all over this track is really killer too, but Kevin’s solo in the middle section and John’s solo at the end stand out.

The only thing I’m not crazy about is the samples because they remind me of Dubliners which was one of the more excruciating literary experiences of my life. But I’m used to them being part of the song now so they don’t bother me too too much.

The best part, though, is “the pain inside, coming outside,” because it features great playing by the band and great singing by James. Plus: “ahh…. comin’ outside WAH WAH WAH WAH… SO MANY WAYS TO DROWN A MAN...” I really love this song. It rocks hard, has great instrumentation and has great singing. Kevin y u light a cigarette and turn the music down and leave DT?

Words:
As I’ve said, Kevin was the best DT lyricist at this time. This song rather brilliantly portrays the story of a particular individual while explaining the universals behind the experience of this individual. And once Kevin Moore announced that he was leaving Dream Theater, the symbolic value tripled. This is excellent not just as a set of lyrics about a particular psychological phenomenon, but as a document for anyone who wants to know: “Why did Kevin Moore leave the band?"
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #125 on: January 19, 2014, 09:10:26 PM »
These are all excellent choices, can't really argue with any of them. It's nice to see someone else who likes The Ministry Of Lost Souls, it's not very popular around here.

Offline Laughingplace56

  • Posts: 627
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #126 on: January 19, 2014, 09:14:43 PM »
All 4 too high but all 4 very good. Love TMoLS I don't get the bad rep. It had it's beautiful moments plus an awesome instrumental section.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

  • Posts: 2227
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #127 on: January 19, 2014, 09:18:19 PM »
Like a lot of stuff from SC, TMOLS get's too much hate. Such stellar melodies and awe-inducing moments.

Won't argue against any of these. Maybe I'd have them a few places lower, but they're still great.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #128 on: January 19, 2014, 09:54:02 PM »
No TMOLS is perfectly placed <3
Less hate, more "wow this is awesome"

Scarred is 100 places too low but whatever seeing it top 25 isn't bad.
These Walls is one of two songs that didn't make my list but probably should have. I had it waaay too low for some reason, at least 20 spots too low.
6:00 is just, so much fun to listen to, damn what a song.

Offline Tom Bombadil

  • Posts: 1649
  • Gender: Male
  • We Do Not Sow
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #129 on: January 19, 2014, 10:03:37 PM »
Scarred and 6:00 are awesome. Not too find of the other two.

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #130 on: January 19, 2014, 10:31:36 PM »
These Walls isn't too low at all. I just like it a lot more, for basically the same reasons you do  :lol

Those reasons simply make a song go higher up on my list than on yours.

I MUST APOLOGIZE LUCIEN BECAUSE MY #1 ISN'T YOUR #1.  :lol Second time so far someone references my somewhat controversial view on my favorite (not necessarily the best but the one I like the most) Dream Theater song. It's dark, it's desperate, but most importantly, it's ATMOSPHERIC and representative of the album cover and album as a whole.
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline Prog Snob

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 16727
  • Gender: Male
  • In the end we're left infinitely and utterly alone
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #131 on: January 19, 2014, 10:33:29 PM »
Those are some solid choices!

Offline jakepriest

  • Posts: 3965
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #132 on: January 20, 2014, 05:26:50 AM »
Great four picks. I would place Scarred higher but 25 is a fair spot.  :tup

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #133 on: January 20, 2014, 09:07:19 AM »
These Walls isn't too low at all. I just like it a lot more, for basically the same reasons you do  :lol

Those reasons simply make a song go higher up on my list than on yours.

I MUST APOLOGIZE LUCIEN BECAUSE MY #1 ISN'T YOUR #1.  :lol Second time so far someone references my somewhat controversial view on my favorite (not necessarily the best but the one I like the most) Dream Theater song. It's dark, it's desperate, but most importantly, it's ATMOSPHERIC and representative of the album cover and album as a whole.

Haha yes! I knew I could get you to show up!

I was just ribbing you, actually, but in your response you made a good point that I've been talking somewhat about over the course of my list: "Those reasons simply make a song go higher up on my list than on yours." That's what I've been saying about all sorts of controversial placements, like ACOS at 31.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2014, 09:59:05 AM »
Fantastic choices.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Outcrier

  • Posts: 3904
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2014, 12:11:01 PM »
23. Scarred
22. These Walls
21. 6:00

Outcrier: Toughest cop on the force.

Offline yeah_93

  • Posts: 130
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2014, 09:22:29 PM »
Good choices so far.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2014, 10:17:24 PM »
Sorry, I've fallen down on the job again. This last week was a little crazy. Here's four songs today, diving into the top 20. And, I decided on a momentary impulse to start an album ranking, with my least favorite DT album. I can already hear people injuring themselves trying to type their angry replies to my choice, probably in all caps.



20. Beyond This Life

All that we learn this time
Is carried beyond this life




Images:
This is one of those songs that epitomizes many of the major aspects of the Dream Theater sound, in my opinion, and it does so incredibly well. It also helps that this is probably, next to The Spirit Carries On, the song on Scenes From a Memory that is best able to stand on its own.

The intro is killer, especially when Mike comes in with those double bass drums. The first vocal sections were a little off-putting on first listen because of the effects and keyboards stuff, but I’ve come to appreciate them with time.

The first unison (?) is a great moment and I love the way it goes into the verses that follow. James sounds great on this part trying his hand at a something a little out of his typical style in a way that I can’t really phrase too well (I’m referring to the “Oh yeah-ee yeah!”). I actually think the chorus, the first one, is the lowlight of the song, but it works well in the context of the whole thing by transitioning well into the second chorus, which is a lot better, and doesn’t drag the song down significantly anyway.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I listen to Beyond This Life for the instrumental section. This is just a perfect instance of Dream Theater doing a fun and slightly chaotic instrumental section that a) doesn’t stray too far from the mood of the rest of the song and b) isn’t just solo solo unison solo. To expand on the first, I feel like this is one of the parts of this album, along with parts of The Dance of Eternity (ragtime) that really make an effort to remind the listener of the 1920s. As for the Budokan extended version: It is a lot of fun to listen to in the context of Budokan, and it makes the entrance of the keyboard solo that much more exciting because of the anticipation, but I tend to go for the studio version most of the time because when I go to this, I’m looking for a stellar 12-13 minute track and if I’m looking for a track of the length of the Budokan one, I’ll reach for [REDACTED FOR SPOILERS].

And as for the other controversy of the instrumental section: Lay off the horn section. No, it doesn’t really sound like actual horns (I didn’t even realize that it was supposed to be those until I saw people mention it). But it’s an awesome section by Jordan, so who cares if the patch sounds like what it’s “supposed to” sound like.

Words:
The lyrics on this song are, I think, among the weaker ones on the album. But, they are not ever embarrassingly or noticeably weak and they do communicate the song’s message. Plus there are those iconic opening lines. Still, there’s nothing that stands out here as being stellar.





19. The Glass Prison

The glass prison which once held me is gone
A long-lost fortress




Images:
This song is one that always disappoints me a little. When I think about the song without listening to it, I always feel like it should be top ten material, but every time I actually listen, one part or another disappoints me a little. Still, 19 is a good place for it.

This is the best intro ever made involving static.

Okay, this is the only intro I know of involving static. But it’s still a beast of an intro. It starts with the bells and then that slow guitar playing that riff. The full band entrance rocks hard and lets you know that this is no Images and Words and that this is not even an Awake—this is an entirely different monster. This is the beginning of the Twelve Step Suite. This is The Glass Prison.

This song is just chalk full of delicious heavy metal riffs from John and great drumming from Mike the whole way. Before this song, I thought that wah was what Kirk Hammett did to replace technicality (kidding I like Metallica). The arpeggio (? I’m referring to 2:30) part is killer as well.

It’s superbly interesting that Mike Portnoy sings the first line. It’s like they were not at all afraid to usher in the new era of co-lead vocals on some songs. I fully support the gesture, and Mike performs quite well on this song. This of course is not to take anything away from James, who just sings his heart out. There are a lot more effects on James than we’re used to, but they’re all tastefully used to make his voice blend well with what the instruments are playing.

The best part in this song is 5:53 and you can’t argue with me on this. That. Goddamn. Riff. And it leads us so well into that tradeoff section, one that I dearly love. Mike and James play off each other so well to deliver the emotion of this part. And it’s just a catchy section, particularly the chorus that James sings.

The solo section is good but not spectacular. It does serve as a good buildup for what I’m really waiting for, James’s last section, where he gets a chance to shine without effects and for what I think is the only time in Dream Theater’s career, to sing on the outro of a song. This is simply iconic, one of the great James LaBrie vocal sections.

The one complaint I do have is that I’m not in love with John’s guitar tone on this song. It sometimes feels like it’s not heavy enough for the music. If his guitar sounded more like it does on Train of Thought, it might put this song over the edge.

Words:
The lyrics to this song are some of Mike Portnoy’s very best. I love the way he describes the first three of the Twelve Steps and the imagery he employs to get there. Particularly the “glass prison” image with the double meaning of the word “glass."





18. Under a Glass Moon

Liquid shadows crawl, silver teardrops fall
The bride subsides to her survival




Images:
The intro and opening instrumental section, leading up to the vocal part, are truly brilliant and among the most beautiful sections of DT music. In fact, this whole song is among their most beautiful. James simply impresses throughout the whole thing, on all verses and especially the chorus (you know the part). The part where he says sturvival is a highlight. It actually is, and the following section too, though not because of the sturvival thing. Portnoy also stands out with an excellent performance on this track. And of course, I can’t say enough about the solo section done by Kevin and especially John. That solo is iconic and lives up to the hype. When Myung does that bass riff right before the solo, it’s just time for one of the top ten guitar solos that Petrucci has ever played.

I love that this song is so beautiful and optimistic and self-indulgent. It’s part of that 1991 Images and Words sound that I love more than any other music (so, yeah, expect to see more of it).

Words:
There’s something I love about the style of early John Petrucci. This was a time when he could just grab one or two great images and expand them into other images and create a beautiful set of lyrics. These either exceed Metropolis or get damn close to be my favorites of his early style. So many great images.





17. Take the Time

Life is no more assuring than love
It’s time to take the time




Images:
This song is more eccentric and fun than anything else on this album, but it is still in keeping with the tone of it. The intro is very lovely and quickly gets energetic and excellent with the keyboard solo. When I first heard the bass riff that follows, I almost took of my headphones, because seriously, what the hell? But it’s all part of the perfection that is Take the Time. James’s aggressive delivery is great on the first verse, the highlight of which is, of course, “I think it’s time for a chaaaaayyyyaaaaaaaange.” The next verse is just as excellent, particularly John Myung’s playing and James’s “Freely wandering promises.” The chorus might be the weakest part of the song, but it’s this song, so it isn’t at all weak. The John Petrucci verse is just as great as the preceding (Portnoy and Myung) verses, with James continuing to deliver the lyrics brilliantly. Spoiler alert: This trend does not end with the piano part and Kevin Moore verse.

Then there’s the solo section, which is one of the very best (I know I say that a lot, but all of these really are!). The unison is brilliant, and then the riff that follows is one of those “this is so crazy but at the same time brilliant” parts that DT brings just throughout this song. Of course the keyboard solo is stellar as well, one of Kev’s best. And I love the way they race ahead from there to the chorus.

And, again, I just love this song because then it’s not over when you think it’s over. One of the best parts is still yet to come. I love the buildup to James’s last section, and then John’s guitar solo is brilliant.

In general, I just love the optimism of this song, like what I said above about Under a Glass Moon. Yes, expect more Images to come, and also some additional Words.

Words:
The lyrics don’t really suffer for being penned by four different writers. Sure, the style of them is different, but they really work together as whole in communicating “this is how we got here, and this is what we learned.” I also enjoyed trying to figure out who wrote what and seeing the slightly different take of each band member on life. Yes, it may be true that these are the weakest lyrics on Images and Words, but come on. It’s freaking Images and Words.





Album 12. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence



I actually decided just right now to do an album ranking when I realized upon listening to The Glass Prison for my writeup that this is my least favorite DT album. It’s also one of just two that I really just don’t listen to all the way through ever, because I don’t enjoy it when I do.

The Glass Prison is great, don’t get me wrong. Blind Faith is a good follow up. Misunderstood… it’s good until the guitar noise and tinkly dissonant keys come in and then things go wrong. Then there’s The Great Debate, which doesn’t really do much for me though I won’t call it bad. Disappear is good, but, like much of the album, come to think of it, sounds weird in terms of production in a way that I don’t really like. The title track is a stellar composition, but is unwieldy to listen to in one setting, particularly after the whole first disc as well.

What is it that puts me off sometimes about Six Degrees? To my ear, the album tries too hard to be experimental, and too many of the experiments fail. The aforementioned abrasive tinkly keys and guitar noise. The whatever that keyboard sound is in Disappear. The structure of The Great Debate which seems to involve the idea of making a 14-minute song without any sort of a climax. The production is also among my least favorites, with John’s guitar sound being too weak for The Glass Prison, Jordan’s keys often being too tinkly, and just overall weirdness to the sound that I can’t quantify.

Additionally, this is the only Dream Theater album that seems to lack their often unmentioned third dimension. Here’s what I mean by that. When people talk about Dream Theater, they talk about the prog dimension and the metal dimension. Different albums have these dimensions in different degrees. This album is all prog. Awake places a great emphasis on the metal dimension. Train of Thought is both of them taken near to the max.

The third dimension of Dream Theater’s music is the pop dimension. Whether or not you’re one of those prog snobs who is repulsed by the application of that word to Dream Theater, the fact remains that they have a pop sensibility. They have catchy choruses, and they often make songs that would be pop songs in another time and should be pop songs in any time (To Live Forever, I Walk Beside You, Beneath the Surface). Even a lot of their longer songs have the pop sensibility in varying degrees. Take the Time is very poppy despite being 8 minutes long, and something like Endless Sacrifice also involves a great deal of that dimension.

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence all but abandons the pop dimension. It has metal and especially prog in spades, but very little pop. About to Crash and Solitary Shell are as close as we get, but it doesn’t make up for 81 more minutes without many pop hooks at all. TGP, BF, Misunderstood and TGD are just slabs of prog and metal and, while great in their own right, do not have any of the pop sensibility that I look for in a DT song. Disappear is short and ballady, but not poppy. Again, this doesn’t take anything away from these as songs, but it explains why I do not love this album as much as I do the other DT albums.


This album is not bad. No album with The Glass Prison, Blind Faith, and the Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence suite on it can be considered bad. But it’s my least favorite Dream Theater album because it has abrasive sections, sounds somewhat weird, and lacks any sort of a pop sensibility.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 10:24:40 PM by 425 »
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7669
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2014, 10:21:44 PM »
Album 12. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

You know, I like you, bro. But I'm going to have to kill you. :p

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. I don't have a witty title for this
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2014, 10:26:15 PM »
Kill me all you want. My post, the one that includes the subheading "Album 12. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence," will stand, and there's nothing you can do about it. :P
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time