Author Topic: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement  (Read 634 times)

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Offline Rathma

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Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« on: November 09, 2013, 06:58:53 PM »
I found this article on a rabbinical Jewish site and found it very interesting.

https://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

The article doesn't deal with the cause of anti-Semitism but the relation of the pre-Israel Zionist movement to anti-Semitism. It seemed apparent to me from before that the founding of Israel wouldn't have been possible were it not for the major persecution of Jews during WWII but according to this article Jewish suffering was actually promoted by Zionists so that their cause for a Jewish state would gain momentum. This type of thinking and strategy is probably the same with other extremist groups as well in today's world, for example Al Qaeda which is becoming more powerful as US foreign policy uses military power against ordinary Muslims, or Muslim extremists in countries like the UK who wish to implement their version of Shariah law.

The article probably has its biases, so please point them out if you notice any specifics.

Offline Rathma

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 07:00:23 PM »
A lot of the quote by the founding and early Zionists are pretty shocking.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2013, 09:51:41 PM »
I'm not going to get into this overmuch because I realize my efforts are futile here, but a quick glance at the page revealed what I pretty much suspected from the group's name. One of the earliest and most prominent criticisms of Zionism predating and during the infant years of the state of Israel were groups like these, whose rejection of Zionism lay not in political or other grounds but the fact that the Messiah hadn't yet returned them to Israel. Basically their complaint was that Jews couldn't return themselves to Israel without the Messiah, and that these Zionists were not really Jews but goyim.

I know that's not going to change your opinion, but w/e.
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 07:56:12 AM »
That's interesting but doesn't have much to do with the point of the article.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 08:17:29 AM »
I mean that they're religious zealots and even though I'm not going to bother, half of it is probably made up. They have in the past had the factual integrity to claim that the reason anti-Semites exist is because they fear monotheism, and that Hitler's stated goal as Fuhrer was to usher in a new age of Nazi paganism.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 09:57:54 AM »
And then as well: https://liberology.wordpress.com/category/fake-zionist-quotes/

It's a fake, no doubt created by anti-Semites to justify their beliefs about Israel, Zionists, etc.
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Anti-Semitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 08:36:22 PM »
Hmm... it does seem like the quote by Theodor Herzl is taken out of context, edited and partially fabricated. So my bad for posting a link that included that. The chapter of the book by Isaiah Friedman looks interesting so I will read that for more perspective on Herzl's views.

The argument about the Ben-Gurion quote (which isn't a fabrication) is less convincing, but the comment does seem less severe considering that he probably wasn't aware of the extent of the Nazi plan. Whether or not Ben-Gurion sacrificed Jewish lives to build a state in Palestine has been an issue since before the beginning of Israel. The controversy has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.