The one thing Dream Theater (DT12) lacks

[wolfking]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

I wonder if you are actually Rhayader just signed up with a different name.  Get out of here mate.  This is one of the most, if not the best administrated and modded forum I've ever been a part of.  The mods, have NEVER stopped anyone expressing their opinion, but it's people like you and your alter ego Rhayader that post pointless, bashing posts that add nothing to the thread and just are out to pick fights.  That's where the mods do their job and rightfully so.  No one that I have seen over the last few years has been punished by simply expressing negative opinions, that's absolute bullshit.

[TheGreatPretender]

Truly great guitar solos, in the context of there being solos that I listen to and think, "This is one of JP's best."  Don't get me wrong, all of the guitar solos range from good to very good, but I can't think of one solo from this record that I would say is even close to being one of his best. 

Think about it...

When Systematic Chaos came out, many were gushing over the solos in Forsaken, The Ministry of Lost Souls (the outro solo), etc.

When Black Clouds... came out, many were gushing over the solos in The Best of Times, The Shattered Fortress, etc.

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions, among others.

This time, we are not really seeing a lot of gushing over any one particular guitar solo.  I am sure this post will get a lot of "I love the solo in [insert the song name]!" responses, but as a collective, I am not seeing the online fanbase gushing over any of the guitar solos on Dream Theater (DT12).

I find that DT12 was way better for riffs than it was for solos. Honestly, there weren't any riffs on ADTOE that I thought were too memorable. I mean, a lot of them were fairly basic, and that's okay. But in DT12, I find that the riffs are a lot more creative and interesting.

Although, personally, I rarely ever pick out a solo right away and say, "That's one that's gonna be a classic JP solo from here on out. Lost Not Forgotten was the only recent solo that I noticed and loved right away. But most of them, it takes me several listens before I truly get into the solos. This was the case with all the ones you listed above.

[philippaopao]

I don't know about you guys, but IMO the "epic" solos of JP from SC to BCSL to ADTOE are pretty much "meh" for me because of their similarities to Razor's Edge. It was really awesome at Octavarium, but then when I heard the solos at SC's MOLS, BCSL's TBOT and TCOT and ADTOE's BAI, I get the feeling that it doesn't break any new ground. Yes it's still big sounding, but a lot of the dramatic nuances have worn out on me because it has been so predictable to put it out on the songs, because the songs themselves have pretty much the same structure. In simple terms, it doesn't sound fresh to my ears anymore.

That's not to say that DT12 has put out better solos for me. However, I think what I REALLY LOVE about DT12 is because I've never heard the band dish out a very solid rhythm with well-put melodies in a quite unfamiliar manner. That to me, is better than any epic soloing over a worn-out song structure any day of the week.

[ariich]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

I wonder if you are actually Rhayader just signed up with a different name.  Get out of here mate.  This is one of the most, if not the best administrated and modded forum I've ever been a part of.  The mods, have NEVER stopped anyone expressing their opinion, but it's people like you and your alter ego Rhayader that post pointless, bashing posts that add nothing to the thread and just are out to pick fights.  That's where the mods do their job and rightfully so.  No one that I have seen over the last few years has been punished by simply expressing negative opinions, that's absolute bullshit.

While I appreciate the sentiment, I think you need to chill out a bit dude. No need to start insulting the guy!

[RoeDent]

I've lost track of what this thread's all about now, with all the banning and controversy and all.

[theseoafs]

Agree for the most part with the OP -- there really aren't any mind-blowing guitar solos on the record, though that doesn't matter a tremendous amount to me.  I care more about good, memorable songwriting, and DT12 has some of their best songwriting in recent memory. 

[Tick]

Sometimes less is more. The songs on this album are well constructed and its one of the best albums they have ever made in those terms, imo.
Every album is different. Alex Lifeson went several albums without any real lead solo's.  This album saw a different approach from John and I think the result is great.
He will rip again!

[Prog Snob]

Sometimes less is more. The songs on this album are well constructed and its one of the best albums they have ever made in those terms, imo.
Every album is different. Alex Lifeson went several albums without any real lead solo's.  This album saw a different approach from John and I think the result is great.
He will rip again!

Agreed...  and quite possibly on an upcoming solo album.   

[Awaken]

Sometimes less is more. The songs on this album are well constructed and its one of the best albums they have ever made in those terms, imo.
Every album is different. Alex Lifeson went several albums without any real lead solo's.  This album saw a different approach from John and I think the result is great.
He will rip again!

100% agree, I think the solos are perfect in the context of each song.  The one thing I would say is lacking from this effort is US TOUR DATES!!

[Hanz Gruber]

Truly great guitar solos, in the context of there being solos that I listen to and think, "This is one of JP's best."  Don't get me wrong, all of the guitar solos range from good to very good, but I can't think of one solo from this record that I would say is even close to being one of his best. 

Think about it...

When Systematic Chaos came out, many were gushing over the solos in Forsaken, The Ministry of Lost Souls (the outro solo), etc.

When Black Clouds... came out, many were gushing over the solos in The Best of Times, The Shattered Fortress, etc.

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions, among others.

This time, we are not really seeing a lot of gushing over any one particular guitar solo.  I am sure this post will get a lot of "I love the solo in [insert the song name]!" responses, but as a collective, I am not seeing the online fanbase gushing over any of the guitar solos on Dream Theater (DT12).

The thing it lacks for me is one more song.

I wish they left The Enigma Machine off the album and put on another song with vocals.  I love the album but Enigma Machine bores me.  It is my least favorite instrumental of theirs and is very forgettable.  I think that this makes me feel like the album could use one more song with lyrics. 

Despite the album being advertised as shorter more focused songs......the album only has 7 songs with lyrics on it.  The description made me think back to Awake or even Falling into Infinity.  Shorter more focused quality songs....then we only get 7 with lyrics.  It feels a little incomplete.  I was thinking that we would get a good amount of songs (like Awake had) which I was very excited about and yet it wasn't much more than Black Clouds.

I think I am just spoiled because they usually jam pack the disc.  Who am I to complain about 68 minutes of music on a cd?

[KevShmev]

Nah, leave off Along for the Ride and replace it with one of their well-written 8-10 minute songs, that is in the middle of the album, and it would have been tons better.  Hell, it is very good as is.

[?]

Nah, leave off Along for the Ride and replace it with one of their well-written 8-10 minute songs

Then the one thing DT12 lacks would be a ballad

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

Behind the Veil was my first thought.

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

The Bigger Picture has my smile all over it.

[OsMosis2259]

Nah, leave off Along for the Ride and replace it with one of their well-written 8-10 minute songs

Then the one thing DT12 lacks would be a ballad

This.
Then people would say "I wish there was a ballad, it is all just distorted guitars etc"

If it was a 8-10 minute ballad like Hollow Years live at Budokan then I'd agree though

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

So we're ruling Along For The Ride out as the ballad?

[Tick]

Sometimes less is more. The songs on this album are well constructed and its one of the best albums they have ever made in those terms, imo.
Every album is different. Alex Lifeson went several albums without any real lead solo's.  This album saw a different approach from John and I think the result is great.
He will rip again!

100% agree, I think the solos are perfect in the context of each song.  The one thing I would say is lacking from this effort is US TOUR DATES!!

TRUE DAT!!! WTF! I am trying to be patient but I want dates, damn it!

[bosk1]

I am trying to be patient but I want dates, damn it!

Tick, if you can come out here for a show, *I* will be your date.  Cool?

[JayOctavarium]

I find the lack of "widdly widdly"  disturbing. I too miss the long instrumental sections

I am trying to be patient but I want dates, damn it!

Tick, if you can come out here for a show, *I* will be your date.  Cool?

[Kotowboy]

I don't mind Along For The Ride but it's the weakest song on the album for me.

[bosk1]

If by "weakest," you mean "second best by only the narrowest of margins," then I wholeheartedly agree and suggest we consider marriage at the earliest mutually-convenient opportunity.

[Tom Bombadil]

Yeah, I love AFTR. Either my 2nd or 3rd favorite on the album.

[Kotowboy]

If by "weakest," you mean "second best by only the narrowest of margins," then I wholeheartedly agree and suggest we consider marriage at the earliest mutually-convenient opportunity.

Then I am relieved for my future that I do not mean that.

If I were to rank the songs - The bottom two would be :

9:Along For The Ride
8:Surrender to Reason

[bosk1]

You are such a silly, backwards little person.

[Kotowboy]

And that is why you proposed to me.


 

[Rodni Demental]

Yeah, I love AFTR. Either my 2nd or 3rd favorite on the album.

I don't get all the dislike/distaste for Along For The Ride. I think it serves an important role on the album and is a well constructed and carefully crafted piece for that role.

[KevShmev]

Nah, leave off Along for the Ride and replace it with one of their well-written 8-10 minute songs

Then the one thing DT12 lacks would be a ballad

Oh well.

I find the lack of "widdly widdly"  disturbing. I too miss the long instrumental sections

I don't.  There are tons of DT songs with those already, and I love that they kept some of these great songs short and to the point instead of bloating them with unnecessarily long instrumental sections.  It gives them more punch.

I don't get all the dislike/distaste for Along For The Ride. I think it serves an important role on the album and is a well constructed and carefully crafted piece for that role.

I don't dislike it, but it just doesn't do a whole lot for me.  Sure, it sounds nice enough, but considering it is immediately after three really good tunes, it is just somewhat of a letdown.

[Prog Snob]

One thing DT12 lacks is Jay Beckenstein from... Spyro Gyra?

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, I love AFTR. Either my 2nd or 3rd favorite on the album.

I don't get all the dislike/distaste for Along For The Ride. I think it serves an important role on the album and is a well constructed and carefully crafted piece for that role.

The song is pretty cheesy to me, and I don't think their recent major key stuff is all that strong compared to their older stuff.
That said, I don't dislike the song, and when I listen to the album, I listen to AFTR about half the time. If it weren't for the instrumental section, I'd probably skip it though.

[Tick]

I am trying to be patient but I want dates, damn it!

Tick, if you can come out here for a show, *I* will be your date.  Cool?

Awwww, arent you sweet! You have seen pictures of me I would guess? In any event, as flattered as I am by the offer I don't date guys who wear helmets. Sorry.

and Kotowboy will make a great bride for you. You will both be so happy together. Oh well. my loss.

[King Postwhore]

Don't do it Tick.








It's a trap

[WDADU]

His solo on "The Bigger Picture" that leads into the 'what if caught in a moment' section is absolutely beautiful. Very happy with Petrucci's chocolate cake, er...guitar solos.

EDIT: 666 posts!

[bosk1]

Tick, I find your lack of commitment disturbing.

[j]

I agree with Kev that this album lacks any *top-tier* Petrucci solos.  However, and I realize this probably belongs in the controversial opinions thread, I would actually extend that to almost every album back to SDOIT.  For me, the only ones post-SDOIT that come close to that upper echelon are maybe ITPOE Pt. 1, Repentance, or Breaking All Illusions.

Granted, this is probably just because Petrucci has set the bar so high, and has played so many great solos throughout his career.  There are still plenty of sweet guitar solos on these albums, it's just going to be hard to measure up to his "all time" greats IMO.

-J

[BlobVanDam]

I agree with Kev that this album lacks any *top-tier* Petrucci solos.  However, and I realize this probably belongs in the controversial opinions thread, I would actually extend that to almost every album back to SDOIT.  For me, the only ones post-SDOIT that come close to that upper echelon are maybe ITPOE Pt. 1, Repentance, or Breaking All Illusions.

No way! Many of JP's all time best solos have been post-SDOIT, including As I Am, Octavarium (Razor's Edge), TMOLS outro, TBOT, and TCOT, showcasing his ability to perfectly blend melody, shred, and expression. Also mostly showing that he thrives at outro solos.
A lot of these are almost universally considered among his very best, even when the songs themselves aren't highly regarded.

Personally I find the BAI solo to be hugely overrated. I enjoy that style, but he's done it before in much better and more memorable solos. ITPOE Pt 1 and Repentance are both great solos though.

[wolfking]

Yeah, I'm with Blob.  BAI was nothing special from Petrucci at all.