The one thing Dream Theater (DT12) lacks

[Areola]

I agree with you Kev. There aren't really any solos that gets that amount of attention that the other albums did. But for me the solo on The Enemy Inside is really good. It's really fast at times, but it's also pretty kickass. Especially the part at around 5:25. I gets my everytime, and the solo from that point and till the transition to the chorus. Great stuff!

Other than that I would say it lacks staying power. I really liked it alot the first two weeks. But after that there weren't anything begging me to come back for. I think it's just pretty run-of-the-mill. Maybe I'll think different down the line.

[Sycsa]

The solos in BTV, STR and IT are outstanding.

[Cable]

I actually agree with Kev on both of his posts, although I felt the same way about ADTOE too. I didn't think much of the BAI solo, unlike many people, although the TITL soloing was a standout for me.
DT12 does have some cool solos, such as the wah solo in IT, but nothing that to me is TCOT epic.

That's not to say that any of these solos aren't good or great, but they haven't been those all time memorable JP solos. He's set the bar so high on most albums, that it's a tough act to follow.
I think some of the riffs are excellent on this album though. IT in particular has some great headbangers.

Agree here with Blob fully about solos. I feel ADTOE and DT12 both, not just DT12, do not have any solos that are top JP for me. That's not to say I dislike the albums, just think other albums hold stronger JP solo moments. For example, SC is at the bottom of the album list for me, but has some of JPs strongest solo moments IMO.

As far as the OP topic, I don't know if that's what the album is missing. Could be! But I feel like it's something else too.

[Kotowboy]

But since you apparently have no desire to follow the forum rules, and you have chosen to not only ignore my warning, but also to insult both this forum and the people who post here, you are no longer welcome.  Goodbye, Rhayader.

 

[Kotowboy]

I'm not the biggest fan of Systematic Chaos or Black Clouds but i'd never say there's absolutely no redeeming features on them at all.

They both have something you can enjoy.

I think that everything Rhyadar hated about DT12 couldn't even be applied to WDADU. I think there is much to enjoy on every DT album.

[Brian Dobbs]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

[Tick]

I think it needs some cowbell.

[bosk1]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

Okay.  Please allow me to solve that problem for you.    Bye, now.

Again, please keep threads on topic.  If people have questions or concerns about the way the forum is moderated, follow the forum rules and send us a PM (or post it in the forum suggestions section, if applicable).

[kirksnosehair]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

No offense but this is patently absurd.   Especially when you consider the fact that it's posted in a thread whose intention is to discuss flaws in the album.   


I'm not sure how you expect a fan forum to be moderated.  I don't see anyone being told they can't present well-articulated critical comments on any of the band's collective output.   If you're looking for a place that reads like the comments section on the political opinion pages, you may want to check down the street 




Edit:  ninja'd by teh boskie

[kirksnosehair]

On the actual topic.....I have a different view of this.  To me, I appreciate the way the solos on DT12 seem to be much more a part of each song rather than a lot of exuberant/odd-meter/mathematical speed-shredding.  That's not to say that those type of solos aren't cool.  I love just about everything that JP comes up with.  And I've loved all of the guitar work on pretty much every Dream Theater album.  But as a songwriter myself, in a similar genre to boot, I really, really admire what he did with DT12's guitar playing.  It's easy to write songs that have verse-chorus-verse-bridge-shredding-verse-chorus-end.  Guitarist shreds over verse chord progression...blah, blah, blah....you take songs like The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture or even Enigma Machine and man....just as a guitarist I'm blown away by this stuff.  Such good songs.  The progressions, the riffs, the melodies, all of it.   


This band has been writing incredible music for a few decades and they were still able to put out a really excellent quality piece of art.  Does it have some flaws?  Yeah, sure it does.  Every album does.  You just can't be all things to all people all the time.  No one can.   

[Kotowboy]

I think it needs some cowbell.

Yeah the cowbell to no cowbell ratio from ADTOE - DT12 is literally 6:0 ( on a christmas morning )

What's up with that ?

Did they use up their entire career cowbell quota on ADTOE ?

DT12 is painfully cowbell free. 

[KevShmev]

  I feel ADTOE and DT12 both, not just DT12, do not have any solos that are top JP for me. That's not to say I dislike the albums, just think other albums hold stronger JP solo moments. For example, SC is at the bottom of the album list for me, but has some of JPs strongest solo moments IMO.

 

Same here.  I guess that shows that I consider soloing icing on the cake, not the main meal, since I also think JP's solos on SC are collectively much better than his on the new album, but as a whole DT12 is miles better than Systematic Chaos, IMO.

[Daso]

Similar to bosk, I think BTV's is among the best JP solos in DT. There's also the solo in The Pursuit of Truth and The Enemy Inside's one. I think perhaps there might be, well, not a lack but a reduction in the length of solos so that there is better flow of the songs, and given how fantastic I think the album is, I think they took a right path with it 

[Outcrier]

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions

Lost Not Forgotten?

[snapple]

Breaking All Illusions solo was the best solo of JP's SDOIT-ADTOE.

Also, the riffs in DT12 were so fucking tasty. Give me tasty riffs over solos, especially with the abundance of solo wankery on some of the previous albums.

edit: DT12 is a lot like Awake to me. I very rarely say "oh, I want to listen to that one song!" when I think of Awake. Usually I want the whole album. I get the same feeling from DT12

[Lowdz]

Lacks good riffs, good solos, good vocal melodies, good compositions, creativity and a good production.

I would disagree with everything you said there. Good work.

[Cable]

  I feel ADTOE and DT12 both, not just DT12, do not have any solos that are top JP for me. That's not to say I dislike the albums, just think other albums hold stronger JP solo moments. For example, SC is at the bottom of the album list for me, but has some of JPs strongest solo moments IMO.

 

Same here.  I guess that shows that I consider soloing icing on the cake, not the main meal, since I also think JP's solos on SC are collectively much better than his on the new album, but as a whole DT12 is miles better than Systematic Chaos, IMO.

Totally. I mean, we probably all listen to songs here and there for a part or solo, and/or repeat a part a lot. But I doubt if I took a band's worst album, and put all the best solos I like from the band on it that it would make the whole album stellar.

[Dream Team]

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions

Lost Not Forgotten?

Definitely. LNF and BAI are top JP solos for me.

[Kotowboy]

The Best of Times is still my favourite JP solo from the era.

[efx]

I think this new album has better composed solos as well as more memorable ones than anything in at least 10 years. Love almost all of them.

[snapple]

The Best of Times is still my favourite JP solo from the era.

It's too bad the rest of the song is pretty bad.

[Tick]

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on the new album but I completely sympathize with your post concerning the way this forum is administered and modded.

No offense but this is patently absurd.   Especially when you consider the fact that it's posted in a thread whose intention is to discuss flaws in the album.   


I'm not sure how you expect a fan forum to be moderated.  I don't see anyone being told they can't present well-articulated critical comments on any of the band's collective output.   If you're looking for a place that reads like the comments section on the political opinion pages, you may want to check down the street 




Edit:  ninja'd by teh boskie

I think this all could have been avoided with just a little cowbell!

[BlobVanDam]

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions

Lost Not Forgotten?

That's actually my least favourite JP solo from ADTOE. I can't remember any of it, and the phrasing has always irked me in the section where he does the short stop start phrases from 7:50 - 8:00.
7:40 - 7:50 is badass though. It just needs some wah pedal! I LOVE the slow, rockin' wah solos JP does, like Voices and BTL (the second solo). For me that's one of the many things that separates JP from the typical shredders, because a lot of them don't have the feels to pull that off half as convincingly.

[Cable]

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions

Lost Not Forgotten?

That's actually my least favourite JP solo from ADTOE. I can't remember any of it, and the phrasing has always irked me in the section where he does the short stop start phrases from 7:50 - 8:00.
7:40 - 7:50 is badass though. It just needs some wah pedal! I LOVE the slow, rockin' wah solos JP does, like Voices and BTL (the second solo). For me that's one of the many things that separates JP from the typical shredders, because a lot of them don't have the feels to pull that off half as convincingly.

LNF is not my least fav ADTOE, but it's not memorable for another reason.

Interesting; JPs Voices solo is one of my least favorites, and don't see it as a favorite I feel. But I think this may come from years of hearing metal players butcher their wah while playing fast (thanks Kirk H!). So to me, I just like hearing JP play solely w/o wah, or very sparingly.

That said, I do like the second, wah BTL solo!

[BlobVanDam]

LNF is not my least fav ADTOE, but it's not memorable for another reason.

Interesting; JPs Voices solo is one of my least favorites, and don't see it as a favorite I feel. But I think this may come from years of hearing metal players butcher their wah while playing fast (thanks Kirk H!). So to me, I just like hearing JP play solely w/o wah, or very sparingly.

That said, I do like the second, wah BTL solo!

To me that enhances the solo if anything! Kirk Hammett should be locked away for wah abuse, so it's extra refreshing to actually hear a metal guy who can use a wah pedal properly.

[Kotowboy]

Kirk is like a kid who uses the wah to hide his awful playing.

The same way jack White uses a fuck load of distortion to hide his AWFUL soloing and everyone worships him....

[Nearmyth]

I agree, I was thinking about this very thing when I first listened to the album. All the guitar solos are great, sure... But none are stand out amazing. The best solo on the album is probably Behind The Veil's solo, but even it falls short in the list of JP's great solos. Actually if I had a list, it would probably make my top 10 solos, but it just isn't up there in my opinion.

[Thoughtspart3]

I love the TLG solo every time I hear hit.  BTV is also great. 

What about the outro solo on IT.  That is really epic.

I agree with others who have said that they are better integrated with the songs.  I think this album is fantastic.  If it were not for the terrible production I think this album would be getting much higher praise. 

[The Stray Seed]

I love the TLG solo every time I hear hit.  BTV is also great. 

What about the outro solo on IT.  That is really epic.

I agree with others who have said that they are better integrated with the songs.  I think this album is fantastic.  If it were not for the terrible production I think this album would be getting much higher praise.

Agree with the above except for the last statement. The production is definitely not what I would call "terrible", and above all: this album is actually getting a lot of praise. I've been following tens of reviews from very diverse websites since the album came out, and the average reviewers' rating is pretty damn high. I did the same with the last 4 albums when they came out and never saw such a high praise.

[wolfking]

Behind the Veil is a top 3 JP solo for me.  I've thought that the first time I heard it.

[kirksnosehair]

If you want to hear terrible production, put on ADTOE - I really love the music on that album, but the production values are objectively terrible.   DT12's initial digital release sounded pretty hot, but even with that flaw it was vastly superior sounding to ADTOE

[AngelBack]

There is a huge difference between saying you do not like something and constructively saying what it is that you do not like, vs. making the objective statement that there is nothing good about it.  The latter is not only insulting, but leaves no room for discussion, which defeats the purpose of a "discussion forum." 

But since you apparently have no desire to follow the forum rules, and you have chosen to not only ignore my warning, but also to insult both this forum and the people who post here, you are no longer welcome.  Goodbye, Rhayader.



EDIT:  And for the record, I'd probably ban Voltaire too, given the chance. 

My vote for best EDIT of the year!

[TAC]

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

That brings up another good point: as good as this album is, it is an album of mostly really good songs.  Even the epic, Illumination Theory, while really, really good, isn't a song I would call truly awesome.  So, to me, it is a very good album in that it is full of mostly very good songs (and one ordinary song in Along for the Ride), and those highs do not come close to reaching the highs on records like I&W, Awake, Falling into Infinity, Scenes, 6DOIT, Train of Thought and A Dramatic Turn of Events.

Yup, but it feels more consistent throughout. But I agree with all you said. It's a nice album, but I don't think it's quite the landmark album that it was intended to be.

[fllnsprrw]

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

it's because the critiquing of DT here is pretty much dominant over the gushing, in my estimation. It's like people are afraid to gush because that's not what all the cool kids are saying. So I don't exactly see where that person that just got banned is coming from, saying how this forum does not allow negative opinion?! Wrong. I think they're too relaxed here about that, if you ask me.

[The Stray Seed]

^ The asian brunette is damn right.


No wait... you're a male?


Nevermind you are right anyway.