The one thing Dream Theater (DT12) lacks

[KevShmev]

Truly great guitar solos, in the context of there being solos that I listen to and think, "This is one of JP's best."  Don't get me wrong, all of the guitar solos range from good to very good, but I can't think of one solo from this record that I would say is even close to being one of his best. 

Think about it...

When Systematic Chaos came out, many were gushing over the solos in Forsaken, The Ministry of Lost Souls (the outro solo), etc.

When Black Clouds... came out, many were gushing over the solos in The Best of Times, The Shattered Fortress, etc.

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions, among others.

This time, we are not really seeing a lot of gushing over any one particular guitar solo.  I am sure this post will get a lot of "I love the solo in [insert the song name]!" responses, but as a collective, I am not seeing the online fanbase gushing over any of the guitar solos on Dream Theater (DT12).

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I agree.

[Prog Snob]

I like the solo in Behind The Veil, but I feel it's so short it never has a chance to BE. 

[Perpetual Change]

Behind the Veil was my first thought.

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

[Buddyhunter1]

I don't know if you'd really call it a "guitar solo" but the guitar bit right after the first chorus in STR is beautiful.

[KevShmev]

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

That brings up another good point: as good as this album is, it is an album of mostly really good songs.  Even the epic, Illumination Theory, while really, really good, isn't a song I would call truly awesome.  So, to me, it is a very good album in that it is full of mostly very good songs (and one ordinary song in Along for the Ride), and those highs do not come close to reaching the highs on records like I&W, Awake, Falling into Infinity, Scenes, 6DOIT, Train of Thought and A Dramatic Turn of Events.

[Tom Bombadil]

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

That brings up another good point: as good as this album is, it is an album of mostly really good songs.  Even the epic, Illumination Theory, while really, really good, isn't a song I would call truly awesome.  So, to me, it is a very good album in that it is full of mostly very good songs (and one ordinary song in Along for the Ride), and those highs do not come close to reaching the highs on records like I&W, Awake, Falling into Infinity, Scenes, 6DOIT, Train of Thought and A Dramatic Turn of Events.

I agree with this. The album as a whole is very good, but the only song that I think is truly amazing is The Bigger Picture. The rest of the songs, while good, aren't all that fabulous.

[mikeyd23]

I really think that the effort to make more concise songs on DT12 effected this for me.  Like some have already mentioned, the BTV solo is a perfect example of this.  Fantastic solo, actually probably one of my JP favorites, but it somehow still feels cut a little short even though it actually is fairly long. 

STR has some great stuff too, theres the melodic solo and that flanger- in-your-face solo.  IT has a couple great solos too, IMO.  I don't disagree with the OP though, there hasn't been a TON of gushing over a particular solo, the funny thing is, I think DT12 is one of JP's strongest efforts with DT.  I think overall his playing on the record is phenomenal. 

[Perpetual Change]

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

That brings up another good point: as good as this album is, it is an album of mostly really good songs.  Even the epic, Illumination Theory, while really, really good, isn't a song I would call truly awesome.  So, to me, it is a very good album in that it is full of mostly very good songs (and one ordinary song in Along for the Ride), and those highs do not come close to reaching the highs on records like I&W, Awake, Falling into Infinity, Scenes, 6DOIT, Train of Thought and A Dramatic Turn of Events.

I think the album is good, but not really good. I'd put it with Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds & Silver Linings. Then again, I probably like both those albums a little bit more than you do, and like Rush a lot less than you do.

Also, the loudness of the album sadly interferes with my ability to listen to it.

[Mladen]

I completely agree, Kev. My favorite solo on the album would probably be the one in Surrender to reason, but even that one doesn't come close to the perfection of The Ministry of lost souls, The Best of times, Lost not forgotten and some other remarkable ones from the three previous albums.

[ZKX-2099]

The Enemy Inside.

/thread

[bosk1]

I disagree on the solos.  First time I heard the solo on Behind The Veil, I instantly thought it was one of JP's best ever.  Every time I have relistened, I have had the same reaction.  Other than that one, there may not be any "top 10 solos ever" material, but there are clearly some other excellent solos.

Honestly though I haven't seen anyone really gushing over any of the songs on the new album at all, aside from Illumination Theory.

That brings up another good point: as good as this album is, it is an album of mostly really good songs.  Even the epic, Illumination Theory, while really, really good, isn't a song I would call truly awesome.  So, to me, it is a very good album in that it is full of mostly very good songs (and one ordinary song in Along for the Ride), and those highs do not come close to reaching the highs on records like I&W, Awake, Falling into Infinity, Scenes, 6DOIT, Train of Thought and A Dramatic Turn of Events.

I somewhat disagree with that as well.  I agree that its highs may not reach quite as high as the highs of I&W, Awake, Scenes, or 6DOIT.  But as an album, it as far more consistently good than any of the albums you listed. 

[lovethedrake]

I personally think the "Behind the Veil" solo is one of JP's all time best.  Kind of harkens back to the I&W style in where the solo progresses the song and leads it back to the chorus in a badass way.   It doesn't feel like shredding just for shredding. 

[?]

I think there are some good solos like TBP and TLG, but I agree with those who think the album lacks songs that stand out as especially special. Half the album is alright and the rest is pretty meh IMO.

[DTFan0789]

No, the album is a masterpiece. Close this thread.

[YtseJamittaja]

I could say I saw this already in ADTOE. In my opinion the guitar solo is good when I can remember exactly how it goes. In ADTOE and DT12 I barely remember any note from any solo...

[lovethedrake]

I think its the best album they have done since TOT.  It doesn't have the HIGHS of the classics but it is very consistent and very good overall. 

TLG, BTV, and IT are three of the best DT songs in many many years IMO.

[Polarbear]

I think there are some good solos like TBP and TLG, but I agree with those who think the album lacks songs that stand out as especially special. Half the album is alright and the rest is pretty meh IMO.

I have to agree. Even the album's standout songs: TBP and STR are pretty mediocre by their standards.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Truly great guitar solos, in the context of there being solos that I listen to and think, "This is one of JP's best."  Don't get me wrong, all of the guitar solos range from good to very good, but I can't think of one solo from this record that I would say is even close to being one of his best. 

Think about it...

When Systematic Chaos came out, many were gushing over the solos in Forsaken, The Ministry of Lost Souls (the outro solo), etc.

When Black Clouds... came out, many were gushing over the solos in The Best of Times, The Shattered Fortress, etc.

When A Dramatic Turn of Events came out, many were gushing over the solo in Breaking All Illusions, among others.

This time, we are not really seeing a lot of gushing over any one particular guitar solo.  I am sure this post will get a lot of "I love the solo in [insert the song name]!" responses, but as a collective, I am not seeing the online fanbase gushing over any of the guitar solos on Dream Theater (DT12).

Agree that it doesn't contain one of his best solos ever like Black Clouds or ADToE. But I think it has some good ones and a great one (BTV).

[Ben_Jamin]

I'll take awesome guitar rhytyms over solos anyday. This album has some excellent guitar work that overshadows solos, like The Bigger Pictures outro guitar and piano.

[BlobVanDam]

I actually agree with Kev on both of his posts, although I felt the same way about ADTOE too. I didn't think much of the BAI solo, unlike many people, although the TITL soloing was a standout for me.
DT12 does have some cool solos, such as the wah solo in IT, but nothing that to me is TCOT epic.

That's not to say that any of these solos aren't good or great, but they haven't been those all time memorable JP solos. He's set the bar so high on most albums, that it's a tough act to follow.
I think some of the riffs are excellent on this album though. IT in particular has some great headbangers.

[N4Player]

I disagree. I think the solos in BTV and TLG are outstanding and very memorable, at least to me.

[Rodni Demental]

I kinda get what you mean. I've always had songs where it's the guitar solo that stood out, but most of DT12 I kind of took it for granted, they were all good, but there wasn't that one super amazing stand out one. Perhaps it's because all the solos are relatively good compared to each other that there can't be a stand out solo because they're all amazing? haha..

It's just normally once I've heard an album I can name a song that really had stand out solos. DT12 I can't even remember the solos (a sign that I need to listen to this album more perhaps), I just know they fitted well.

I guess one that comes to mind, although not the most technical, is the 'Marillion' (as JP might put it) solo section in The Bigger Picture. He always pulls off that sound amazingly be it Lines in the Sand, Best of Times, Breaking all Illusions, Ministry of Lost Souls, Octavarium.. Can't think of more but I know there is! Anyway, I really dig those slower 'soulful' solos.

[KevShmev]

That's a good way to put it, Rodni Demental.  Again, the guitar solos on this album are all pretty damn good, and JP's overall work is excellent as always, but I was just saying, there doesn't seem to be that ONE definitive guitar solo that the fanbase is collectively busting a nut over.

[Mastervai]

I agree with the "none spectacular solos or super memorable solos" and I have always LOVED guitar solos, and thought that they could really elevate a mediocre song.

BUT for me DT12 is the best album since 6DOIT PERIOD - I love the overall guitarwork - the rythms and melodies - the layers and proggressiveness of the songs - the "major" sound of the album (more positive and "happy").

I think the songs themselves are memorable and are really really good.

By the way - I love the "pan pipe" solo from JR in AFR

[adastra]

I think it lacks some kind of "creativity" ... sry, that was awful thing to say.. These guys have more creativity than I will ever have.
But yeah, there really isn't any hooks on the album. 

for example:
The "funky" guitars on Take the time,
Amazing solosections on Innocence Faded,
Experimental stuff like on Misunderstood,

For me it is like 68minutes of distorted guitars and robotic drumming.
I'm not saying it is bad album.. I like it , but it really didn't bring anything new to the table    For me at least. sry.
(I'm not trying to sound offensive or try to bash the album, I'm just trying my best to tell what wrong with the album )

[GasparXR]

I actually think this album has some of JP's best guitar moments/solos. Most of the previous albums had 1-3 songs with some of his best, but this album, at least for me, has some of his best solos across at least 5 songs. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and Illumination Theory. The only other albums that I think have this many of the best JP solos are FII and SDOIT.

That being said, I can remember 99% of JP's solos off by heart. He writes excellent solos all the time that always progress the song nicely and complement the chords behind them. I will say that most of them over the last few albums are the kinds of solos I expect from JP, even if they're great, so I'm glad he experimented and upped his game a bit for this newest one. The STR flanger solo in particular isn't really comparable to a lot of his solos.

[Prog Snob]

What I think is missing are instrumental passages like the intro to Lost Not Forgotten and solos like the one in BAI.  I was watching LaLP last night and that intro in LNF just blows me away.  JP said that they focused more on writing "songs" and did not intentionally fill the CD to its limit.  So this doesn't surprise me.  I'm not complaining either.  Maybe with the possibility of a JP solo CD, he slightly toned down his performance on the DT CD.

[Rhayader]

Lacks good riffs, good solos, good vocal melodies, good compositions, creativity and a good production.

[Kotowboy]

Lacks good riffs, good solos, good vocal melodies, good compositions, creativity and a good production.

 

[bosk1]

Lacks good riffs, good solos, good vocal melodies, good compositions, creativity and a good production.

This kind of outright bashing of the band violates forum rules.  Given that you've already been warned for similar things in the past, and that your posting style seems to consist almost solely of either bashing the band or trying to provoke arguments with other forum members, I strongly suggest you change your posting style before you are asked to leave permanently.

[Prog Snob]

Tell 'em Steve Dave

[Rhayader]

Lacks good riffs, good solos, good vocal melodies, good compositions, creativity and a good production.

This kind of outright bashing of the band violates forum rules.  Given that you've already been warned for similar things in the past, and that your posting style seems to consist almost solely of either bashing the band or trying to provoke arguments with other forum members, I strongly suggest you change your posting style before you are asked to leave permanently.

Don't even need to "ask". No point in staying in a dictatorship forum, where saying any negative opinion is not allowed. There are other sources to keep informed without having to endure DT ass-licking fans, who like anything the band makes. No matter what they record. If they record a full album of "happy birthday to you" in different versions, fans will love and buy it. It is called FANATICISM. DT fans are the worst fans of any band. I have never known so many fanatic fans, who cannot accept an opinion that differs theirs. Bye, bye.

[Tom Bombadil]

I've seen plenty of people voice they're displeasures about the album. Only difference is that they were respectful about it.

[bosk1]

There is a huge difference between saying you do not like something and constructively saying what it is that you do not like, vs. making the objective statement that there is nothing good about it.  The latter is not only insulting, but leaves no room for discussion, which defeats the purpose of a "discussion forum." 

But since you apparently have no desire to follow the forum rules, and you have chosen to not only ignore my warning, but also to insult both this forum and the people who post here, you are no longer welcome.  Goodbye, Rhayader.





















EDIT:  And for the record, I'd probably ban Voltaire too, given the chance.