Can someone verify something I noticed on Live at Luna Park?

[nikatapi]

I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.

I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.

Also in some videos from the tour JP seems so cool while singing, while on all the previous tours he seemed very concentrated in order to play and sing at the same time.

This is speculation from my part, but i honestly highly doubt that JP sings all the backing vocals, there is some playback with James' vocals, so maybe these are the same tracks with JP's vocals.

[BlobVanDam]

I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.

I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.

Also in some videos from the tour JP seems so cool while singing, while on all the previous tours he seemed very concentrated in order to play and sing at the same time.

This is speculation from my part, but i honestly highly doubt that JP sings all the backing vocals, there is some playback with James' vocals, so maybe these are the same tracks with JP's vocals.

From watching bootlegs a while back, at least some of JP's backing vocals were backing tracks, because I could hear them when he wasn't even at the mic (that may have even been for the chorus of TDEN).

I don't mind backup vocals being done that way though. It's pretty common these days, and in the past I believe JP/MP dubbed their vocals for the live releases anyway. JP isn't the lead vocalist, and it's not his main role, and it's representative of what was heard on the tour. And in any form, I enjoy hearing JP's vocals contrasting with JLB's. Hopefully the PMU clip isn't indicative of the rest of the show in that regard.

[Sycsa]

I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.

[onnet5]

There's definitely backing tracks going on for backing vocals where JP is just miming, albeit unconvincingly.

I'd like to retract what I said earlier about Jordan being inaudible in some of his solos. I've since listened to it using headphones and I found the mix to be better, so perhaps I have some tweaking to do on my speaker setup. He's still a little low but it's not as bad as I initially thought.

[Kotowboy]

The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.

I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.

Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.

[Sycsa]

The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.

I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.

Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.

I really like the lighting on the PSMS DVD. Reminds me of Budokan.

[KevShmev]

I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.

I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.

Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well).  Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear.

[XB0BX]

Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well).  Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear.

Subdivisions.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.

I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.

Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.

Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).

[Shadow2222]

Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).

Woah, JP was playing fast, but not that fast!

[wasteland]

Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).

Woah, JP was playing fast, but not that fast!

Indeed. In 2006 JP's speed caused an electromagnetic emission in the wavelenght of visible light, hence the bightness of Score. Six year later  he had refined his technique and augmented his speed so much that his emission ha completely trascended into the blue end of the spectrum, hence the abundant blue in the lights and the Blu-Ray format of the release.

You see? Everything fits. 

[Scorpion]

I love it when you get all physic-sy and stuff.

[Öxölklöfför]

I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.

Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)

[wasteland]

I love it when you get all physic-sy and stuff.

You can do that as well! Just reverse the polarity of the neutron flow! 

[GasparXR]

I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.

Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)

If I recall, only MM hears the click tracks. MM counts the rest of the band in with an invisible cowbell.

[Madman Shepherd]

I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.

Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)

Yes they are.  I think it has been confirmed in a few interviews but Mike Mangini told me personally when I met him.  He was talking about how all of the songs would be "album tempo" and he actually sounded kinda psyched.  I had to take a moment to think of what he was talking about because I've never heard of someone refer to it as "album tempo".  I think one of the things he and the band were enthusiastic about was keeping the performances consistent. 

[Sycsa]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

[Ben_Jamin]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

I think JP wants to play "The Glass Prison" at regular speed to hit the notes well, and not go into hyperdrive mode...whichleads me to believe why he bulked up, now he can reach super sayan mode with ease.

[TheAtliator]

I am LOVING how everything is at album tempo every night. Mangini has been a fantastic impact on this band for things like that.

[Sycsa]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

I think JP wants to play "The Glass Prison" at regular speed to hit the notes well, and not go into hyperdrive mode...whichleads me to believe why he bulked up, now he can reach super sayan mode with ease.

I'd be (the most pleasantly) surprised if they ever put TGP back on the setlist.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?

[bosk1]

I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?

Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so.  From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix).  If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).

[KevShmev]

Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well).  Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear.

Subdivisions.

That is a spoken word, not singing.

But okay, that is probably the one exception.

[Ben_Jamin]

Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well).  Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear.

Subdivisions.

That is a spoken word, not singing.

But okay, that is probably the one exception.

What about geddy messing around and liping the "do's" in Earthshine.

[Perpetual Change]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.

[wasteland]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.

Tiny sloppyness and impromptu happenings have not been magically erased from DT's live catalogue after 2011, and I'm sorry to notice that you must have missed many if not all of them (clearly I am talking about watching youtube videos or bootlegs, no-one can attend every show). Still, the little accidents like JP knocking JLB on the floor and then joining him for the rest of the solo are not a priority for the band when it comes to creating a testimony of the tour cycle.

As for the extra energy, I'm not sure what your frame of reference is, but I can tell you that I saw them live in 2012 and watched multiple time the recording that was made of that night, and even without the judgement-altering excitement of the moment, I can tell you that the band delivered exceptionally, and the same can be said about all the video recordings I have of this tour, Luna Park included. So, yeah, it's likely a frame of reference issue here 

[BlobVanDam]

One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.

Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.

I mostly agree, although the ADTOE songs are exceptions to me, because LALP has a better mix, and more energy than ADTOE does, even at the same tempo.
PMU feels a little lacking when stuck at album tempo compared to say the Budokan version (aside from JLB, who is sounding a lot better than on Budokan!)

I've never been much for live albums anyway, so this one is more for the visuals than the audio for me.

[Perpetual Change]

I mostly agree, although the ADTOE songs are exceptions to me, because LALP has a better mix, and more energy than ADTOE does, even at the same tempo.
PMU feels a little lacking when stuck at album tempo compared to say the Budokan version (aside from JLB, who is sounding a lot better than on Budokan!)

I've never been much for live albums anyway, so this one is more for the visuals than the audio for me.

Good point. I'm not a huge fan of OTBOA, but I'm definitely interested to hear the other ADTOE renditions. Too bad the DVD doesn't feature more Black Clouds and Systematic Chaos. We really need good live versions of those songs, whereas for the earlier stuff, there's already definitive versions on Score, Budokan, or LSFNY.

[TheAtliator]

I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?

Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so.  From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix).  If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).

Look carefully at "think you can't be saved" and the last "whatever it takes". I think more was dubbed or tuned of that show than what most people think.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?

Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so.  From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix).  If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).

Look carefully at "think you can't be saved" and the last "whatever it takes". I think more was dubbed or tuned of that show than what most people think.

 My ears are not well trained enough to pick up all overdubs, but I´m sure there are other examples in DT´s catalogue. If only they fixed Once in a Livetime a little bit...

 And hey guys, please do not take offense when we talk about overdubs. If the best metal singer on the planet, Mr. Paul Bruce Dickinson can do it, so can JLB!

[onnet5]

I've solved the video footage error, and it's most bizarre. On the bluray version there's a bonus feature which has a multi-angle version of Outcry. If you watch this version, namely on camera 1, you will see James sing "Though you may stand upon my grave" exactly as the audio suggests on the main version, however he's in a completely different position on stage from the version on the main disc. This leads me to believe the audio is used from the multi-angle version whereas the footage is from the other night (this could also explain sync issues). What I find absolutely bizarre is that BOTH nights worth of footage for Outcry are on the disc, yet they chose to use video footage from another night on the main disc.

[Öxölklöfför]

I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.

Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)

Yes they are.  I think it has been confirmed in a few interviews but Mike Mangini told me personally when I met him.  He was talking about how all of the songs would be "album tempo" and he actually sounded kinda psyched.  I had to take a moment to think of what he was talking about because I've never heard of someone refer to it as "album tempo".  I think one of the things he and the band were enthusiastic about was keeping the performances consistent.

Can you point me to any of these interviews? I'm not mistrusting you or anything, but I can't remember that i've seen it in any interview before.

And, "album tempo" and click tracks are by definition two different things, even if click tracks helps out with playing at album tempo. It could mean that they use clicks only as a count-in to set the tempo for the rest of the song. Did he actually say that they used click tracks?

[BlobVanDam]

I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time.
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.

[Sycsa]

I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time.
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.

Since both versions of OTBOA were officially released on YouTube, I doubt it would constitute a forum rule violation.

[TheAtliator]

Interesting! I wonder if all of them line up like that