Can someone verify something I noticed on Live at Luna Park?

[onnet5]

Watched the bluray, enjoyed it, despite the disappointment I faced when the majority of Jordan's solos were barely audible. However the most glaring thing that stuck out to me is right at the beginning of the instrumental section of Outcry. I am convinced Labrie has already put the microphone to the side as he's walking back to his little room even though he's still belting out the final words of the vocal line. Anyone else notice this?

[adamack]

Yikes...sounds extremely strange...

I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on it, but are you sure he didn't have a heavy delay on his vocals and you are hearing the echo?

[Perpetual Change]

Watched the bluray, enjoyed it, despite the disappointment I faced when the majority of Jordan's solos were barely audible. However the most glaring thing that stuck out to me is right at the beginning of the instrumental section of Outcry. I am convinced Labrie has already put the microphone to the side as he's walking back to his little room even though he's still belting out the final words of the vocal line. Anyone else notice this?

Haven't seen it, but JLB uses a TON of reverb on those extended live notes. He can still hit all the notes, but he definitely uses enough reverb to sustain them.

[TheAtliator]

using camera footage from a different night than the audio? 

[onnet5]

Definitely not an echo effect. Only thing I could think of is that he only puts his microphone stand to the side and keeps his microphone. Having said that, when he hits those powerful notes his body language usually reflects that, however he's walking away casually.

[onnet5]

using camera footage from a different night than the audio? 

Thought of that, could be the case.

[Perpetual Change]

Hmm. Some LaBrie vocals were piped in during ADTOE shows. I mean, he was singing, but he also had himself as a backing track in some areas (like choruses). Not sure about on Outcry. Could that be it?

[TheAtliator]

Not on the line "you may stand upon my grave". ONLY on backing vocals. NO prerecorded main vocals of course.

[Sycsa]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

[onnet5]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.

On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.

[Sycsa]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.

On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.

You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.

[bosk1]

Haven't seen it yet since it's not out yet in the U.S., but a couple of possibilities come to mind:

1.  As PC pointed out in his post, if it is just a situation where a James stops singing and the note continues, it could be reverb/delay exending the note a bit after he stops singing it.  That is fairly common.  I don't know if they using a backing tracks for James' vocals, but it could also be the delay from a backing track, as well.

2.  Could be an audio/video sincing issue where the footage for that brief shot is either a second or two head of the audio or is footage from a different part of the show that was inserted there by mistake.

Hard to say more without having seen it to know what you are referring to.

[onnet5]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.

On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.

You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.

No, the keytar solo...

You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.

[adamack]

Hmm. Some LaBrie vocals were piped in during ADTOE shows. I mean, he was singing, but he also had himself as a backing track in some areas (like choruses). Not sure about on Outcry. Could that be it?

Interesting nugget of info. I'm actually very happy to hear this...I think that more bands should use programmed background vocals for chorus harmonies (or other sections) which cannot be achieved by the band members.

Do you know if they program them into JR's keyboard, so that he can trigger the background vocals with a key stroke? I always presumed that this would be one way to do this, but have always wondered if it was correct.

[Sycsa]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.

On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.

You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.

No, the keytar solo...

You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.

I didn't even know TDEN had a keytar solo. No matter, I don't even like the keytar ever since Ryo Okumoto threw one right into my face on a SB concert a few months back. 

[onnet5]

Jordan's solos were barely audible.

Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.

Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.

On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.

You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.

No, the keytar solo...

You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.

I didn't even know TDEN had a keytar solo. No matter, I don't even like the keytar ever since Ryo Okumoto threw one right into my face on a SB concert a few months back. 

It's not in the studio version. It's a little improvisational piece Jordan does at the end of the song where he would normally use the continuum.

[Jinx]

I was gonna comment on this. Theres another moment after the first verse in LNF. Someone shouts WHOA and it sounds like James but the mic is back on the stand. I went back to see if it was JP but hes nowhere near his mic stand.

Loads of glaring issue on this release though. Another one springing to mind is that fact that it just is NOT JP doing the backing vox on TDEN.

Colour me disappointed actually

[bosk1]

No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo.  Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.

[Sycsa]

No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo.  Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.

"A keytar is a keyboard or synthesizer hung around the neck and shoulders, similar to a guitar." Fits the definition for me. Sounds a tad less ridiculous than Solo Axe, too.

[bosk1]

Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked."  But they still are not the same thing.

[Sycsa]

Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked."  But they still are not the same thing.

https://youtu.be/szRTDfSDhME?t=24s

[Jinx]

Just seen the part OP was referring too. Hes definitely left the stage while the note carries on haha

[425]

Loads of glaring issue on this release though. Another one springing to mind is that fact that it just is NOT JP doing the backing vox on TDEN.

Colour me disappointed actually

I'm almost positive that it's Mike Portnoy. But it would have been that way had you been there, too, since they're using triggered backing vocals in their live shows now.

[Shadow2222]

I think they did cut in some footage/audio from the second night, because I'm relistening to the live chat from earlier and JP says there were some light issues that made them use footage from the various nights in the main set (or at least that is what I got out of it. He talks about it about 10 minutes in to the chat).

[bosk1]

Yeah, that's understandable.  For those who may think it's a simple thing to put one of these together, he's just a SMALL behind-the-scenes look at what it is like:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BBaQAecHI

[Another_Won]

Yeah, that's understandable.  For those who may think it's a simple thing to put one of these together, he's just a SMALL behind-the-scenes look at what it is like:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BBaQAecHI

Thanks for the link!  Good watch.  It really provides a great insight into the making of LaLP.

[Madman Shepherd]

Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked."  But they still are not the same thing.

Two very different things.  What are the differences between a Zen Riffer and a Keytar other than the maker of a Zen Riffer chose to call it a Zen Riffer.

[BlobVanDam]

I haven't seen the DVD yet, but I'll point out that the compression they apply to vocals to keep it all level can give the impression of it lasting when it looks like the mic is moving away. As someone else mentioned, reverb/delay will also lengthen notes.

Without seeing the video, those are just generalizations of course.

[Bolsters]

No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo.  Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.

Isn't that the same as saying a stratocaster and a guitar are different things? A Zen Riffer is a brand of keytar...

[rumborak]

Any keyboard that has a strap for it to be carried around like a guitar is ... a keytar.

Even the Wikipedia page lists it as a keytar.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Discussion whether the Zen Riffer is a keytar or not.


I think I liked the "every album is a concept album" discussion better. Or "Awake" is about Spiderman, for that matter.

[Rhayader]

From what you people write, the DVD must be really a failure. TDEN with Mike Portnoy vocals? What a shame. He's not in the band anymore and still.. they use him.

[TheAtliator]

It's not MP. it's some unrecognizable voice. I'll hear it clearer once I have the DVD, but yes they used tracks for the backing vocals on the last tour, and no they were not MP's voice.

[sfam2112]

The two shows I saw on that tour when they played TDEN, that's definitely JP's "growl" or whatever but it looked funny like it was a backing track.

[BlobVanDam]

I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.