Which Dream Theater album has the best track lengths?

[Zyzzyva17]

Pretty self-explanatory, although I should clarify one point:

Do not vote based on whether you think the individual songs are too long or short for their lengths. The vote should be based on the lengths themselves, the order of the lengths, and your general knowledge of what DT songs of certain lengths generally sound like.

I personally chose Systematic Chaos. Too bad it's actually nowhere close to my actual favorite album.

[Ħ]

I say DT12. In general, I prefer a shorter song length.

[XB0BX]

Black Clouds. I love long song lengths, probably because of my prog background. I wish DT would release nothing but 10+ songs.

[Lucien]

Octavarium. Six 4-8 minute songs, one 10 minute song, and one 24 minute song

[The Letter M]

HAH... 8 votes so far and all but 2 are for different albums, with 2 votes for DT12. Interesting...

Anyways, I went with SDOIT. I love that 5 of the 6 songs are over 9 minutes long, relatively long songs for DT, with one song under that time. It's a good collection of PROG track lengths, between 6 and 13 minutes long, with a super epic at 42 minutes!

I almost voted for BC&SL with most of it's tracks being over 10 minutes long, and I also almost voted for SC, given the wider variety it has for track lengths, especially counting ITPOE as one song, you go from 4 minutes to 25.

Really, though, nearly EVERY DT album (save for maybe the first), has a really good spread in terms of track lengths, except for the newest album. Aside from the opening instrumental and the closing epic, the other 7 songs are all sandwiched between 4 and 7 minutes. That's most of the album in that track-length range. Most DT albums only have 3 or 4 songs in that range, especially AFTER SFAM. Not that this is a BAD thing, per se, since a lot of the band's 4-7 minute songs prior to SFAM were pretty good, but after the last two albums, DT12 seems a bit flat in terms of track length variety.

-Marc.

[425]

This is a difficult one! See, I love super epics but I think they often come with the downside of having few other songs in the 10-15 minute range.

I think, counting In the Presence of Enemies as one song, Systematic Chaos is the best, because it really has a whole diversity of song lengths. You've got your 25 minute song, you have two in the 10-15 minute range (and close to opposite ends of that range), you have two about the 7-10 minute range (CM is practically 7), and you have two in the 5-6 minute. When you think about it, that's really a LOT of music in a lot of differently sized packages on that one disc. I mean, two songs that top 14 minutes PLUS another FIVE songs? Only one of which is under 6 minutes? That's a fantastic deal right there.

Honestly, I love that they mix up the track lengths so much (the last three albums alone have been so different from each other in that regard), but if they were to pick one basic formula for song lengths and stick with it until the end of time, I'd want it to be the SC one, counting ITPOE as one song.

[Outcrier]

Images, nice track lenght for me.

[adamack]

I like SFaM and ADToE. Also happen to be my #1 and #2 favorite DT albums.

SFaM has a bit of everything. 1,2,3,5,6,10,11, and 12 minute songs. Plus, aside from Beyond This Life, nothing really feels like it drags on. Finally Free is long, but it is too varied and too incredible to feel "too long".

At the same time, the songs that are not too long still do not seem like they end too quickly. Strange Deja Vu and Fatal Tragedy have enough variation throughout to achieve this phenomenon.

I also like the lengths on ADToE. It is packed to the gills with songs in the 9ish to 12ish minute lengths. I really love DT's songs of this length.

Sure, Outcry's instrumental section is way too long. But I think the thread is just referring to the actual lengths, not the content of the songs.

And having an album composed of many songs in the 10ish minute area, and still managing to have 9 songs on the album, is just awesome.

I'd have to say my least favorite is BCaSL. Having so few songs of great length runs a very big risk. If you do not happen to like, say, 2 of the songs, that is almost half of the album. And I know of many people who do not like 2 or more songs on this particular album.

What is sad about BCaSL is that, to me, the music is there. It is the lyrics that rob this album of being in my top 5. I still love the album, but the lyrical content is either corny, or unrelatable to me.

[425]

IMO, Black Clouds is one that actually is harmed somewhat by its track lengths. For me, the last half of the album is very exhausting, with two ~13 minute songs back to back followed by a 19 minute one. I think The Best of Times is really buried in there and I always like it much more when I listen to it outside the context of the album, as when I listen to it within the album, I'm kind of waiting to get through it and get to TCOT. Really, for me, that's an album with six very good songs that just don't work together as one album. TBOT is the greatest victim of that to me, but TSF is also hurt. The first three songs work together excellently, but perhaps ANTR and TBOT could have been trimmed a bit to make room for at least one more ~5-6 minute song that could have gone between TSF and TBOT to let the album breathe a bit more. I don't know, I'm ranting, but that's just how the BCSL track lengths feel to me.

[Kotowboy]

Black Clouds. I love long song lengths, probably because of my prog background. I wish DT would release nothing but 10+ songs.

But then they'd be forced into creating songs for the length and not creating songs that end at the right place and are concise.

They shouldn't be forced into doing long or short songs. Bands should just write songs and they should be as long as the song needs.

A Nightmare To Remember feels really long. It's a drag and could have lost six minutes.

[Nearmyth]

It was between Awake, ADTOE, and SFAM. I voted Awake.

[Tom Bombadil]

I didn't vote on this because I really don't think I can say "I like long songs" or "I like shorter songs". What I can say is "I like good songs", regardless of length.

[Kotowboy]

I didn't vote on this because I really don't think I can say "I like long songs" or "I like shorter songs". What I can say is "I like good songs", regardless of length.

[BlobVanDam]

But then they'd be forced into creating songs for the length and not creating songs that end at the right place and are concise.

They shouldn't be forced into doing long or short songs. Bands should just write songs and they should be as long as the song needs.

I feel both BCASL and DT12 suffer the most for trying to fit to long/short track lengths.
However, it's hard to just answer a poll based on "best" track lengths, since it really doesn't matter as long as the songs fit that length. SDOIT is perfect to me at 42 minutes, and Vacant is perfect at 3 minutes.

I voted for SFAM, because it has a lot of tracks, and a lot of variety in lengths, but it doesn't feel that meaningful.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I'm between Awake, DT12 and SDOIT.

[mellotron_scratch]

Octavarium: it's got variety. There's some shorter songs, a medium length epic (10 min) and a massive 24 min song.

[Mosh]

Definitely Octavarium, best balance easily.

I think DT12 would be the worst, honestly. Yea the music is great, but it doesn't really have variety on the song lengths.

[Rhayader]

I can't vote because track length doesn't mean quality, and if it is good, I don't care about the length.

[ariich]

I didn't vote on this because I really don't think I can say "I like long songs" or "I like shorter songs". What I can say is "I like good songs", regardless of length.

This. I don't really understand the question.

[theseoafs]

I didn't vote on this because I really don't think I can say "I like long songs" or "I like shorter songs". What I can say is "I like good songs", regardless of length.

This. I don't really understand the question.

Yup.  I like music, not numbers.  I still wanted to hear DT12 even after the track lengths were released, for example.

[me7]

Black Clouds. I love long song lengths, probably because of my prog background. I wish DT would release nothing but 10+ songs.

But then they'd be forced into creating songs for the length and not creating songs that end at the right place and are concise.

They shouldn't be forced into doing long or short songs. Bands should just write songs and they should be as long as the song needs.

A Nightmare To Remember feels really long. It's a drag and could have lost six minutes.

I disagree. The lengths on BC&SL don't feel forced  to me at all, all songs seem to flow naturally. I never had the feeling that the band wrote long songs just for the sake of being long.
...and ANTR doesn't feel long to me at all.

[Ruba]

Awake. ADTOE has pretty ideal ones too.

I think some songs on DT12, like The Bigger Picture or Surrender to Reason, could be longer. Now they have no room to breathe.

[Sycsa]

I didn't vote on this because I really don't think I can say "I like long songs" or "I like shorter songs". What I can say is "I like good songs", regardless of length.

This. I don't really understand the question.

Yup.  I like music, not numbers.  I still wanted to hear DT12 even after the track lengths were released, for example.

While I agree that quality counts not quantity, inherent characteristics still come out of track lengths alone, something the progressive genre has benefited a lot from.



A 4 minute song can pack a huge punch, be an uplifting ballad, but couldn't take one to a similar musical journey than a 12 - 20 minute song. I don't think anyone would cut a single minute off Octavarium. While I'm perfectly happy with DT12, I often find myself wondering how certain songs would have ended up if they had the length of the ADTOE mini-epics. I think it would have been possible to explore the ideas a bit more without making the songs bloated.

[425]

Also, it's really not that crazy for someone to prefer certain song lengths or a variety of song lengths to other ones. Of course the quality of the music matters more, which is why we can easily like an album that is not of our preferred song length type or whatever. But I think it's possible to say "I love every 20+ minutes DT song, so 20+ minutes is my favorite DT song length" or whatever.

[?]

Voted for I&W, but could've as well gone with Awake. I love the compact songwriting and the epics feel special because there are just few of them.

[wolfking]

This is an odd topic.  I don't know how to vote.

[The Stray Seed]

Images, nice track lenght for me.

Yes... just perfect.

[ariich]

A 4 minute song can pack a huge punch, be an uplifting ballad, but couldn't take one to a similar musical journey than a 12 - 20 minute song.

Of course it could, and plenty of shorter songs do so.

[Sycsa]

A 4 minute song can pack a huge punch, be an uplifting ballad, but couldn't take one to a similar musical journey than a 12 - 20 minute song.

Of course it could, and plenty of shorter songs do so.

So everything a 20 minute song could possibly convey could be done in 4 minutes? Which song is that? I didn't say short songs cannot be varied enough to take you on on a journey(although it would be quite a feat), but they cannot accomplish everything a 20 minute song can. You cannot pull off Close to he Edge in 4 minutes.

[ariich]

I didn't say short songs cannot be varied enough to take you on on a journey(although it would be quite a feat)

Well that's partly what I was talking about really.

In terms of the amount of musical ground covered, of course you can do more in 20 minutes than you can in 4, but again it comes down to what you are trying to do. If, for example, you need a very long and slow atmospheric build up before moving on to other ideas, then obivously you can't do that in a single short song. But that in itself isn't necessarily a better or worse thing, it's just a way of doing something that fits with what the artist is trying to achieve.

Also, the question in this OP is about song lengths - but what about something like A Mind Beside Itself? As I said, you can cover more ground in 20 minutes than in 4, but there's no reason that has to be in a single track. That's why I find it quite strange that so many people have such strong preferences over the number and length of songs.

[namgalsipsclar]

I think Awake is the best for this. It has a great mix of several 4-5min songs, one shorter song and a few slightly longer ones, then a couple close to the ten minute mark. Also I think 11 songs is a perfect amount of material for an album, whereas Train of Thought and BC&SL I feel have too many long songs and sometimes you just need a short break.

I may be biased though as Awake is my favourite album, but maybe song lengths is one of the reasons i love it so much! 

[wasteland]

I tend to like a lot DT songs with lenghts around the 12 minutes mark. Let's go with ADTOE, or maybe Images And Words...

[theseoafs]

I don't think anyone would cut a single minute off Octavarium.

You must be new here.

Anyway, some long prog songs are great.  Some are not.  The Count of Tuscany is not great.  In The Presence of Enemies (the longest, I think, of DT's "epics" besides SDOIT) is honestly pretty bad.  DT12 could have gone either way with its short songs (and one long song).

[Scorpion]

I don't think anyone would cut a single minute off Octavarium.

You must be new here.

Yup. If it were up to me, I'd say goodbye Full Circle and Razor's Edge.

[Unlegit]

Six Degrees, easy.