Vocal styles of John and Mike

[Rodni Demental]

I realise there's a similar topic but I wanted to have a discussion about any of the songs that had various contributions in the studio and live situations from Mike Portnoy. I have the utmost respect for all members of Dream Theater, Past and Present and I believe they've all played a significant role in making Dream Theater the band we all know and love today. But as the band members move along and go on their own journey's, an evolution and change happens within band itself which gets reflected in all future material they compose. Also their back catalogue will evolve as it get's reinterpreted through the years by different musicians and even a song's original composer like's to evolve and make adjustments to their creations.

Just look at Rudess's reinterpretations of the Kevein Moore Era to see an example of this evolution (and even Derek Sherinian's interpretations of Keven Moores stuff was different again) John Petrucci mixes up his solos all the time. And we're gonna see some interesting reinterpretations of the Drumming now. MM will do his best to stay true to the DT style I'm sure, but he's still going to use his own kits, and his own style and the song's are going to change with this different expression.

Now, I'm very intrigued to discover what will happen to some of their songs. I'd rather avoid the issue where a song might be too personal to a member, because I don't think that should matter, and the way I'd like to see it, is that all the songs belong to Dream Theater and any song should have the same chance of being in a Setlist as any other. I'm more interested in speculating what would actually happen to a particular song IF IT WERE to be played today without Portnoy.

So I've been thinking lately, after watching a lot of the old DT DVDs (Scenes from New York, Buddakan, Score, When Dream and Day ReUnite, Chaos in Motion + some other decent video bootlegs). And I've been wandering about a lot of songs with Portnoy's contribution regarding backup vocals.

I noticed in Score and Chaos in Motion especially he was doing a lot of falsetto backing that I've never seen JP do. I'm really looking forward to Live at Luna Park to see how the backup vocals are being handled in certain songs. I understand James has some triggered harmonies in certain songs (especially newer songs from ADTOE) which I think is a great way for a vocalist to stay on key. Some people see it as a crutch but being a vocalist I find it more of a performance tool. Of course, just having any pitch to relate to in the music (usually just a bass or guitar line) can be very helpful in staying in key to the tune. Actual pitch correction I would consider more a crutch, especially live cause that can get messy but everyone and their grandmother's use it in the studio these days but I'm getting distracted from my point.

Lets see, here are some songs off the top of my head as I think of them, although I'm certain there are more. Now I don't so much have a question that I expect can be answered, it's more just a curiosity of what's going to happen to these songs in the future. I completely expect any one of them can make a return, perhaps some less likely to than others:

- Prophets of War: This one has the entire Bridge section spoken by Portnoy, it's actually my favourite part of the song. Now I realise this song hasn't been pulled out many times live, in fact, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know if it was played AT ALL during the tour for Systematic Chaos as I didn't see it in sets until 2009-2010 so I have no idea how popular the song was to a live crowd, but this particular one seems like it'd be significantly different if Petrucci did the spoken vocals, I have faith in him but it's not a vocal style I've heard him use before so it could be interesting...

- A Nightmare to Remember: This is almost the same deal as PoW in that there's another famous spoken (growled) section by Mr Portnoy. Although I understand this one might already have been played live since 2011? I haven't been able to confirm this but what did they do during this section?

- The Mirror: This one is full of spoken words by Mike (Temp-ta-tion, Hypocrite!!). With this song being somewhat personal to Mike, I know we can't speak for the bandmembers but I get the feeling we might not be seeing the mirror for quite a while unless JP picks up the pieces that'll be missing from the song. Could always trigger Mike's original vocal takes live for James to continue off of, I don't know  if that's a path the band wants to take though because if you take it too far it takes the 'liveliness' out of the live performance eventually.

- Burning my Soul: Considering it's already been quite a few years since this one was played, it's probably not that high on anyone's wishlist (although it is on mine). Playing the studio version of the crazy 'burning my soul' vocal is the most obviously solution to keep this song.

- Home:  I don't really have doubts about this one, I think it'll be back eventually but I do get the feeling it'll sound a bit different or incomplete without all 3 of them (James, John and Mike) doing harmonies. There are a couple of songs that might be in this category that I can't even remember right now, but some of the high points of various songs include all 3 of them harmonising with each other.

- The Glass Prison: This one's already been talked about extensively and it applies to most of the 5 song Suite but I don't even care that it's in the 12SS, I'm more interested in if they DID play it, how the performance would sound if JP was doing the spoken parts cause again, it doesn't quite seem like his style but I'd still like to hear it. In the only playing the band did of Repentance I was almost disappointed we didn't get the triple harmonies from James John and Mike, JP just played Chords of them on guitar pfft..! I respect that if the performance was going to suffer due to live limitations, do it differently. 

Honor thy father: This one probably has little reason for the other bandmates to resonate with and continue playing except for the fact that's its probably one of the most badass heavy songs they've composed and a lot of people like myself would be very upset if it doesn't get played again! It took me a while to notice but Portnoy does backup vocals for most of this song. Unlike some other examples, there's no doubt JP could sing everything MP does, although the guitar parts can be fairly busy even when the vocals are going, most of the time a guitarist will write a specific part that they know they are able to play at the same time as the singing and I suppose that's something to consider for all of the Portnoy vocal section in various DT songs if JP takes his vocal duties.

- Panic Attack: Mike Portnoy's falsetto everywhere! You could argue that it doesn't need to be there and perhaps James can handle this song on his own but still, I'd get the feeling something was missing without it. The falsetto vocals kinda fits the mood of a 'panic attack' to me. There are a lot of songs where Mike goes into his higher register for a few harmonies but there aren't many examples where he does it for the whole song.

- The Root of All Evil: This one has been played live since 2011, but I haven't heard it and I intend to check it out. For anyone that has heard or seen this performed, how did JP do?

- Dark Eternal Night: Also has been performed since 2011 and I have no idea what they did here but to anyone that's seen/heard this, what did it sound like? Was it only James singing? Did they trigger backup vocals? Or was John growling along with James? XD

- Constant Motion: This is the glaringly obvious one, I just don't know how this would sound. I know it's probably an overrated song among the more long term DT fans but I really think it's a good entrance song to get into DT. I've got a couple of friends into DT by playing the Heavier songs such as this one, Honor Thy Father and The Mirror. All of which are songs that have a questionable future in live shows! A worry? I hope not but that's why I'm curious to discuss and explore possibilities for these songs.

- New Millennium: This song might not have especially unique vocal performances from Mike but I think there's some 3 part harmonies that could be lacking (the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train). Also, there's weird time signatures on the guitar that might be tricky to sing and play during the verses but I don't know what I'm doing underestimating John Petrucci I'm sure he can do all of this stuff if he wanted to.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

MP is not a bad backup vocalist. He just made some poor artistic choices in DT with regard to that function.

[Rodni Demental]

- The Count of Tuscany: It just occurred to me that the chorus of this song has the infamous 'scary man' vocals that are found on a lot of Black Clouds and Silver Linings material yet I'm fairly sure they played this one in 2011 aswell. I'm gonna have to check out some of these newer live show's because it'll probably contain some of the answers to these curiosities.

Also, I certainly wouldn't imply that MP was a bad backup vocalist, most of this is speculating what the DT members would possibly do in those sections with out him. Definitely some 'questionable' artistic choices in presentation in later albums perhaps but the actual harmonies that he's been doing for years sound excellent on DVDs like Score and Buddakan.

[Polarbear]

I think Petrucci is a damn fine vocalist, and he really should sing more in future DT albums.

About MP: After listening the Flying colors album and hearing MP sing in Fool In My Heart, i was really impressed by his vocal talents. I think that his backing vocals added a dimension to the DT music, which is missing now. That being said, His growling vocals sounded really bad. IMO SC and BCSL could have been better without his harsh vocals (really like SC). If he wants to continue doing those in his future projects, he really should take lessons.

One more thing: When Flying colors covered Repentance, i was just floored by how well he sung that song. I can only imagine how good it would have sounded if they had recorded it with his vocals in 2007.

PS. Nice thread, should get more replys.

[Sycsa]

Except for the auditions, they haven't performed ANTR without MP, but I imagine they'd do it like they originally intended to: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx

The Dark Eternal Night sounded pretty weak on LALP in my opinion and it's plagued with a plethora of backtracks. That's definitely the worst aspect of post-MP DT.

[rumborak]

I had not listened to those samples in a long time, but damn all of those are awful. And IMHO MP misses the real problem of the section: That it didn't get changed. Any band encountering the problem that they can't find a fitting vocal section to go over an existing piece of music eventually adjusts the music. DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

[ReaPsTA]

DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

This is the most important change they made post MP.  Unless I understand incorrectly, JLB's around when the music's being written now.

[sfam2112]

DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

This is the most important change they made post MP.  Unless I understand incorrectly, JLB's around when the music's being written now.

Well, he was also present when Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systematic Chaos were written.

[ReaPsTA]

DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

This is the most important change they made post MP.  Unless I understand incorrectly, JLB's around when the music's being written now.

Well, he was also present when Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systematic Chaos were written.

True.

[jcmistat]

Never heard those sample before but I like the fill in of Mikael Akerfeldt for the growl section they had during that tour. I think they're both great as backup vocalists, contrasting styles.

[BlobVanDam]

DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

This is the most important change they made post MP.  Unless I understand incorrectly, JLB's around when the music's being written now.

Well, he was also present when Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systematic Chaos were written.

And I don't believe he was around for the writing of SDOIT? I don't really think JLB's presence is necessary for the music to be written with vocals in mind.

[Bertielee]

DT writes their music essentially as instrumentals, and once all that it's recorded, they get the singer in and then have to find something that might work over that music.

This is the most important change they made post MP.  Unless I understand incorrectly, JLB's around when the music's being written now.

Well, he was also present when Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systematic Chaos were written.

And I don't believe he was around for the writing of SDOIT? I don't really think JLB's presence is necessary for the music to be written with vocals in mind.

You're right, Blob. Both JP and JR are good musicians who are able to think even about the vocal melodies demanded by a certain song.

B.Lee

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, he was also present when Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systematic Chaos were written.

Well, if you ask me, on those particular albums, JLB sounds absolutely fantastic and his voice is befitting to every song. Whether his presence during the writing stages had anything to do with that, I don't know.

Personally, I think Black Clouds is the only album where for the most of it, JLB's parts were kind of meh. But he more than made up for it on those covers. 

[Madman Shepherd]

I think their vocals compliment James's vocals in a variety of ways.  However, I think towards the end of Mike's tenure they were pushing James too far away from the bands vocalist position to the bands "main vocalist" position.  In other words, James should be the exclusive vocalist 99% of the time, and even when there are backing vocals his voice should still be most prominent.  Instead, there are some parts that were done exclusively by others.  Not cool. 

[JiM-Xtreme]

I really miss their voices during the counterpoint sections. Obviously they are not as technically brilliant as James, but their voices provide a really cool musical contrast that is completely lost when James sings it with a pre-recorded version of himself.