The Walking Dead, Season 4

[Tom Bombadil]

I noticed that they were trying to make you feel sympathetic for the governor, but he was such an asshole before that I just couldn't. Probably why I didn't like the episode.

Also I've noticed that ever since I caught up to season 4 I've enjoyed the episodes a lot less and I think the reason why is that we have to wait a whole week in between episodes. On Netflix, when you have 30 episodes to get through, they can spend an episode or 2 on character development and it's like "that was nice, on to the next one". But now it's like "I waited a whole week and nothing happened?" The more I think about it, the episode was actually pretty good, but I was waiting all week for some action and death and stuff.

If that continues I think I'll force myself to wait until I can get the whole season next time.

[gmillerdrake]

I noticed that they were trying to make you feel sympathetic for the governor, but he was such an asshole before that I just couldn't. Probably why I didn't like the episode.

Also I've noticed that ever since I caught up to season 4 I've enjoyed the episodes a lot less and I think the reason why is that we have to wait a whole week in between episodes. On Netflix, when you have 30 episodes to get through, they can spend an episode or 2 on character development and it's like "that was nice, on to the next one". But now it's like "I waited a whole week and nothing happened?" The more I think about it, the episode was actually pretty good, but I was waiting all week for some action and death and stuff.

If that continues I think I'll force myself to wait until I can get the whole season next time.

I did that same thing with Game of Thrones. My brothers watched it and told me I had to. I watched the first two seasons in a week, just in time to start the third season "on time" and even though I like the show it sucks waiting the week.

I think it'll be interesting to see how Martinez responds to the Governor and if he plays along with him being 'Brian'. I'm thinking even though In the preview Martinez tells the Governor that he's in charge now....after following the Governors orders for so long in the back of his mind he has to know it won't be long until he's following 'Brian's orders.

And....the entire Governor story on the TV show in no way resembles the comic now. I'm curious as to if they keep any of what goes down in the comics or if they are just doing their own thing with him now?

[TempusVox]

I'm beginning to think the whole Governor/ Prison storyline has jumped the shark. By the finale last season I was fed up with the governor storyline all together. It's one thing to create tension between Lincoln and Morriseys characters but they rode that wave of rising action nearly every week last season. We all hoped week after week he would finally get his due and ultimately that hope went unfulfilled.

Now they want to "reinvent" the sick bastard so they can milk it for the rest of this year. Enough already.

Surely there are many more story lines that would keep us interested in this post apocalyptic world. I mean it's now been what? Two...three weeks since the radio broadcast snippet. And for once can't we see them raid a Goddamn Costco? Yeah I know AMC doesn't want to spend the money but damn sometimes this group of survivors seems pretty damn dumb.

Also I heard Kirkman talk about how excited he was about the new spin-off series next year. He said he couldn't wait to do something that didn't follow the comic in this world. What?? Then don't do that now.

[Dimitrius]

I don't really understand why they tried to make the Governor sympathetic, this is not like Jaime Lannister where it's a case of you judge him because you're led to believe he's an asshole until you hear his side of the story, no, the Governor was truly a sick and twisted human... why would I wanna feel sympathy towards him? Especially when you know he's gonna try and kill Rick's group when he catches up with them.

[BlackInk]

I thought the episode was fine.

[Zook]

I predict his former henchmen will kill his new family and the Governor will go back into kill zone mode.

[gmillerdrake]

I predict his former henchmen will kill his new family and the Governor will go back into kill zone mode.

Sounds about right.

[Mebert78]

I don't really understand why they tried to make the Governor sympathetic, this is not like Jaime Lannister where it's a case of you judge him because you're led to believe he's an asshole until you hear his side of the story, no, the Governor was truly a sick and twisted human... why would I wanna feel sympathy towards him? Especially when you know he's gonna try and kill Rick's group when he catches up with them.

In my opinion, the sympathy will be short lived.  After all, they showed us that the governor eventually ends up outside the prison fences looking inside -- likely wanting revenge.  So I'm sure they sympathetic side of the governor fades.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I'm not so sure, they used 1 entire episode to show that the gov still have empathy and compassion. Why would they then let him snap and throw all that away just so he can have his revenge on the prison camp? He burned his family photo so I think the anger towards Michonne has faded.

[Dimitrius]

I don't really understand why they tried to make the Governor sympathetic, this is not like Jaime Lannister where it's a case of you judge him because you're led to believe he's an asshole until you hear his side of the story, no, the Governor was truly a sick and twisted human... why would I wanna feel sympathy towards him? Especially when you know he's gonna try and kill Rick's group when he catches up with them.

In my opinion, the sympathy will be short lived.  After all, they showed us that the governor eventually ends up outside the prison fences looking inside -- likely wanting revenge.  So I'm sure they sympathetic side of the governor fades.

And that's what I'm getting at, why spend a whole episode trying to give him sympathy if their going to make him the monster he was eventually?

[Zantera]

Honest trailers: The Walking Dead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxvo8AcpQQ

 

[ResultsMayVary]

I would have liked the episode if they broke it up over several episodes. That way I didn't have to sit through an hour straight of backstory or have to deal with the prison group's bullshit for the first several episodes. I felt it would have been a nice change of pace if they went back and forth between the prison group and the governor's story in these first few episodes of the new season.

[emblempride]

I love the idea of making him sympathetic, even if it won't be for long. Some of our sickest serial killers were family men and had people they cared about and all that jazz, 9 times out of 10 it's not as black and white as entirely good and entirely evil. Hell, by the end of the episode, I found myself way more concerned with his situation than the prison. The first half of the episode had me bored and the sisters had pretty awful dialogue, but by the end I was hooked. I loved what they did with TV Shane in comparison to comic Shane by making him much more dyanmic, and they're basically doing the same with The Governor except opposite what they did with Shane (does that make sense?). Shane lost his soul and gave no fucks, but The Governor appears to be full of self-loathing because of the terrible things he's done.

[Dimitrius]

But he already HAD a family and people he cared about and all that jazz!!

[Zook]

But he already HAD a family and people he cared about and all that jazz!!

Yes, and they either became walker kibble, or just a walker. Then at his lowest point, after being defeated by people who he outnumbered and outgunned, and then abandoned by his two trusty henchmen, he was taken in by random people, and that ignited a spark of humanity back in him.

[emblempride]

With the serial killer analogy, there has been a phenomenon of empathy they feel when it comes to children due to past experiences. It's not far-fetched for The Governor. I honestly don't think he cares about the women, but has to keep them safe for the girl's sake.

It totally would have been for comic book Gov, who was far less sympathetic and evil as all hell from the start. Love that he goes by Brian... Has anybody read the novels?

[TempusVox]

It's not about sympathy or showing the ability to feel positive emotions for people...it's about control. This poor family now has helped him reinvent himself but more than that they have unwittingly rekindled his psychotic/narcissistic side. The Governor HAS to be in control. Without it he is lost. The dimensions of his personality when it seemed he was repentant and self loathing over his past deeds were not that at all. What we mistook as a shred of human decency was his torment over having had his empire crumble around him. He is nothing if he isn't in control.

Think back to one of the first times we met him. He slaughtered an entire platoon of national guardsmen because there very existence was a threat to his megalomaniacal world. Hes shown all of us that his character alone is far more dangerous than any walker out there. I would stand him up to any number of sick and twisted fictional psychos. Hannibal Lector, Moriarty, Judge Holden, Claudius, Blofeld, Randall Flagg....all amateurs when it comes to his depravity.

[gmillerdrake]

It's not about sympathy or showing the ability to feel positive emotions for people...it's about control. This poor family now has helped him reinvent himself but more than that they have unwittingly rekindled his psychotic/narcissistic side. The Governor HAS to be in control. Without it he is lost. The dimensions of his personality when it seemed he was repentant and self loathing over his past deeds were not that at all. What we mistook as a shred of human decency was his torment over having had his empire crumble around him. He is nothing if he isn't in control.

Think back to one of the first times we met him. He slaughtered an interpolation of national guardsmen because there very excistence was a threat to his megalomanic world. He shown all of us that his character alone is far more dangerous than any walker out there. I would stand him up to any number of sick and twisted fictional psychos. Hannibal Lector, Moriarty, Judge Holden, Claudius, Blofeld, Randall Flagg....all amateurs when it comes to his depravity.

So it is written......so let it be said....

[Chino]

I'm finally watching this week's episode and the governor just entered the old folk's home... I'm so fucking bored.

[Zook]

I'm going to keep watching a show that doesn't interest me and complain about it every week.

[Chino]

I'm going to keep watching a show that doesn't interest me and complain about it every week.

Well, yeah. It's like when a parent still loves and supports a child who is a drug addict, steals their money, pawns shit around their house, doesn't work, and still bums around their house at the age of 40.

[Zook]

I'm going to keep watching a show that doesn't interest me and complain about it every week.

Well, yeah. It's like when a parent still loves and supports a child who is a drug addict, steals their money, pawns shit around their house, doesn't work, and still bums around their house at the age of 40.

Do you know my cousin?

[emblempride]

It's not about sympathy or showing the ability to feel positive emotions for people...it's about control. This poor family now has helped him reinvent himself but more than that they have unwittingly rekindled his psychotic/narcissistic side. The Governor HAS to be in control. Without it he is lost. The dimensions of his personality when it seemed he was repentant and self loathing over his past deeds were not that at all. What we mistook as a shred of human decency was his torment over having had his empire crumble around him. He is nothing if he isn't in control.

Think back to one of the first times we met him. He slaughtered an entire platoon of national guardsmen because there very existence was a threat to his megalomaniacal world. Hes shown all of us that his character alone is far more dangerous than any walker out there. I would stand him up to any number of sick and twisted fictional psychos. Hannibal Lector, Moriarty, Judge Holden, Claudius, Blofeld, Randall Flagg....all amateurs when it comes to his depravity.

Oh yeah, control is probably a bigger part of it than anything. But if there wasn't a sympathetic or emotional element, then there would be no reason for the little girl's character at all. You're not wrong, but I still wouldn't say that that is all there is to it. I'm not saying i'm rooting for the guy or saying that he's not a fuckin' batshit monster, just that I'm happy with his un-static character development. I mean, I think we all share a strong feeling that he's going to enter full psychokillrage in the near future.

[Zantera]

I think this was the best episode so far this season without a doubt. Similar to the episode Clear in S3, it just gets so much better when they strip the episode down, focus on just a few characters.

[gmillerdrake]

It's not about sympathy or showing the ability to feel positive emotions for people...it's about control. This poor family now has helped him reinvent himself but more than that they have unwittingly rekindled his psychotic/narcissistic side. The Governor HAS to be in control. Without it he is lost. The dimensions of his personality when it seemed he was repentant and self loathing over his past deeds were not that at all. What we mistook as a shred of human decency was his torment over having had his empire crumble around him. He is nothing if he isn't in control.

Think back to one of the first times we met him. He slaughtered an entire platoon of national guardsmen because there very existence was a threat to his megalomaniacal world. Hes shown all of us that his character alone is far more dangerous than any walker out there. I would stand him up to any number of sick and twisted fictional psychos. Hannibal Lector, Moriarty, Judge Holden, Claudius, Blofeld, Randall Flagg....all amateurs when it comes to his depravity.

Oh yeah, control is probably a bigger part of it than anything. But if there wasn't a sympathetic or emotional element, then there would be no reason for the little girl's character at all. You're not wrong, but I still wouldn't say that that is all there is to it. I'm not saying i'm rooting for the guy or saying that he's not a fuckin' batshit monster, just that I'm happy with his un-static character development. I mean, I think we all share a strong feeling that he's going to enter full psychokillrage in the near future.

I can see Temp's point....completely. And at the same time agree with emblempride as well. There is no reason really to 'sympathize' with the Governor given his actions he's displayed.

But I can sympathize with a man who misses and has lost his family. I think that episode was more about a man finally accepting the fact his family and beloved daughter was gone, and coming to the realization that the man he was when the world was right no longer existed.

I liked getting a glimpse of that man....and I liked how they showed what a bit of hope (the little girl) can do for a tormented, lost soul.

But just as the serial killer analogy has said.....you can't do the things he has done and not have had that in you all along. Maybe that was what some of the self loathing and sulking was about....him realizing the man he was before was the lie, that he had lied to the women he loved and that who he was as the Governor was his true self?

I think Zook is right on.....something bad is going to happen to that little girl he's replaced Penny with....kind of a Karma come full circle thing.....and it's just going to unchain the monster she has for the time being tamed.

[TempusVox]

Miller. I think your right on the verge of hitting on it. I believe he has always been this way. His family was a way to mask to others that he was "normal" when in fact he's a monster. The symbolism of torching the photo wasn't about letting go from an emotional standpoint but about letting go from a practical standpoint. He now has a replacement family and like discarding a pair of worn out shoes he torched the picture because he has no need for any emotional remembrance of them. He's like the BTK Killer. A sociopath needs to keep appearances and his greatest fear is being exposed. This poor unsuspecting trio of young women just let the devil inside their lives.

Also...did anyone catch the symbolic scene near the end where they were walking and young Megan paralyzed by fear stands there when the mini horde of walkers shows up? She's holding her stuffed bunny the same way the walker girl does in the very first episode. Only the outcomes were entirely different. In the first episode the bunny walker runs at Rick and he shoots her in the head. In this episode bunny Megan runs right into the arms of the devil. All safe and sound.
 

[emblempride]

I think Miller got it 100%. I agree with the idea that he's always been that way and that keeping up appearances is a strong part of it. But he was sulking about even before he met the family, so I still wouldn't say that the family being a replacement and a way to mask his true self is all there is to it. You mentioned the BTK Killer, but then there's a guy like Robert Yates, who I was unfortunate enough to read about one day. Loved the shit out of his family as it's said - but the dude was a necrophiliac murderer! If a real person can maintain that completely opposite dichotomy and be genuine in both (though obviously he's much more the evil bastard far beyond the point of no return), it's not crazy for The Gov. The burning of the photo was about letting go form an emotional standpoint, he creased the photo so that it would show his wife and daughter but not himself, so it's safe to say he cared about them more than an old pair of shoes. I think that he, as Miller said, is coming to terms with the man that he has become and partially always been. And I agree that you can sympathize with the man he once was and the parts of this old self that he's struggling to hold onto while still recognizing the evil and nearly heartless person he's become now. Once again going back to the morbid serial killer analogy, plenty of killers came out of absolutely awful experiences and conditions that you can sympathize with and feel empathy for while still condemning and even hating that person for the things that they've done and who they are currently. It's not justification, but it is understanding. So that's my thinking, anyways.

And I also think that this was the best episode of the season so far, despite the first half of the episode. Speaking of Clear, I'm wondering when Morgan will pop back up and in what context, considering he's supposed to make an appearance this season.

[masterthes]

So, who thinks that radio transmission we heard a while back is going to be linked to the Governor's party?

[Dimitrius]

I don't even remember what radio transmission you're talking about.

[cramx3]

I was really enjoying this season. It seems like it was going back to the basics of the first two season which were survival from the zombies and dealing with each other. But this past episode was pretty boring and I don't particularly care for the governor at this point. I knew he would come back but I don't think an entire episode on his back story was enjoyable.

[gmillerdrake]

So, who thinks that radio transmission we heard a while back is going to be linked to the Governor's party?

I think it'll be the new characters that have been confirmed for this season. Abraham and his crew.

[ResultsMayVary]

I wish they would just hurry up and get there. The writers have twiddled their thumbs with this prison situation for long enough. 

[Chino]

I wish they would just hurry up and get there. The writers have twiddled their thumbs with this prison situation for long enough.

This.


Did this bit bother anyone else?? ..

[TioJorge]

Fucking awesome scene. I enjoyed the episode, I really liked the tense scenes when the governor was 'hunting'; some great creepy, classic spook scenes in this episode. I didn't entirely enjoy the exposition of the Governor though. This isn't exactly what I had in mind when they said they were doing a Gov'-specific episode. But overall I think it's nice to know that these more character driven episodes bring some depth to the characters instead of simply prodding along. Though there was definitely some prodding going on in this episode; it wasn't too bad though.

Overall I'm liking this season much more than any previous ones and for the most part I think the pace is nice even though the general consensus is that something huge happens in one foul swoop simply to get away from the prison. Then, the backlash would be towards Gimple wanting to take the easy way out...or something else entirely... Er, my point being that it's nice to know Gimple is still trying to forward the story while keeping the focus on the characters. There's no real easy way to immediately leave the prison, but I think by the end of this season they'll be on their way out if not already. Here's hoping...because I'm hanging by a thread as a whole, but recently I've enjoyed the show. It's just that...this show has had a tendency to do that; have some kickass awesome, neck-break pacing and then...nothing...

[BlackInk]

Is that an official poster?