Is Anyone Irreplacable?

[eviljust]

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

I don't think we have enough elements to say that (the "raised to another level" part). Techincal skills aren't the only thing that makes a musician a really good one. I'm not saying I don't like MM, don't get me wrong. It's just we had MP for a long time and he blew our minds basically all the time. Yeah, I don't like SC or BC&SL as well, but the drum parts on those albums are still realy great to me. So, as a drummer, I would say we just need to wait and give more time to MM 'cuz one album isn't anything compared to 25 years of music. And no, I'm definitely not a MP fanboy or something. I said several times I was disappointed by some of his behaviours after leaving the band.

Going back to the question, I really can't imagine Dream Theater without JP or JLB (I couldn't even without Portnoy actually).

[Tick]

*Quote pyramid*

Really?

No...not really.

Apparently and most unfortunately it seems to be Hugh Syme.

This post won the thread. 

Their are no winners or losers in this thread. This is 2013, every boy and girl gets a trophy!

[Viking of the Sagas]

Tick is jealous because he didn't win. Don't listen to him folks.

[Tick]

Tick is jealous because he didn't win. Don't listen to him folks.

I won, you won, we all won! Were all awesome!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvHj0vovQHI

[Ħ]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

[Outcrier]

Musically, JP and LaBrie (irreplaceable).

[j]

Petrucci.

-J

[Lucien]

Jordan and John Petrucci because of them being DT's main sound.

John Myung for just being there the entire time and being John Petrucci's best friend.

James for being that "surface sound" as someone else described it.

Mike Mangini because the rest of the band said so.

[SeRoX]

James LaBrie, just because IMO, voice is the signature and soul of a band.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Okay Okay, Thanks!!  But Is there some parts in ADTOE or DT12 that MP propably couldn't play? 

Yes there is 

TELL ME NOW!!! 

I've done my homework already on that, do yours! 

Personally, if there's someone out there that can answer this question off the top of their head then it'd be quite nice to hear from them. Really can't be bothered to listen through two albums just purely to assess how possible the drum parts are for someone else to play.

[detemete]

JP and JP only.

And MP is capable of playing MM's parts. You guys are getting carried away on that whole thing

[Knguro]

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

I don't think we have enough elements to say that (the "raised to another level" part). Techincal skills aren't the only thing that makes a musician a really good one. I'm not saying I don't like MM, don't get me wrong. It's just we had MP for a long time and he blew our minds basically all the time. Yeah, I don't like SC or BC&SL as well, but the drum parts on those albums are still realy great to me. So, as a drummer, I would say we just need to wait and give more time to MM 'cuz one album isn't anything compared to 25 years of music. And no, I'm definitely not a MP fanboy or something. I said several times I was disappointed by some of his behaviours after leaving the band.

Going back to the question, I really can't imagine Dream Theater without JP or JLB (I couldn't even without Portnoy actually).

Just let me put it this way, would you dare to sit Travis Barker instead of MM? If the answer is no, ask yourself why, and there is my point.

[eviljust]

Seriously, I can't see your point. And yes, the answer is definitely no

[hefdaddy42]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

This, and there are definitely lots of drum parts on the last two albums that MP couldn't play easily and definitely could not have come up with in the first place.

[Knguro]

Seriously, I can't see your point. And yes, the answer is definitely no

Forget it then hahaha

[Tick]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

This, and there are definitely lots of drum parts on the last two albums that MP couldn't play easily and definitely could not have come up with in the first place.

on the other side of it...MM is very technically proficient which can come off a bit robotic at times, whereas MP has a lot of feel in his parts. I certainly acknowledge MM as the more technical guy but I don't put him above MP overall. Both guys do an amazing job.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

This, and there are definitely lots of drum parts on the last two albums that MP couldn't play easily and definitely could not have come up with in the first place.

on the other side of it...MM is very technically proficient which can come off a bit robotic at times, whereas MP has a lot of feel in his parts. I certainly acknowledge MM as the more technical guy but I don't put him above MP overall. Both guys do an amazing job.

MP has a standard rock "feel."

He's a unique player with his own personal style. But "feel" is not something I'd say he has a lot of.

[BlobVanDam]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

This, and there are definitely lots of drum parts on the last two albums that MP couldn't play easily and definitely could not have come up with in the first place.

on the other side of it...MM is very technically proficient which can come off a bit robotic at times, whereas MP has a lot of feel in his parts. I certainly acknowledge MM as the more technical guy but I don't put him above MP overall. Both guys do an amazing job.

MP has a standard rock "feel."

He's a unique player with his own personal style. But "feel" is not something I'd say he has a lot of.

I'd say he has plenty of feel. How does a personal style not constitute "feel"?

[Tick]

JP is irreplaceable. JLB, probably. Everyone else could leave and DT would live on.

This, and there are definitely lots of drum parts on the last two albums that MP couldn't play easily and definitely could not have come up with in the first place.

on the other side of it...MM is very technically proficient which can come off a bit robotic at times, whereas MP has a lot of feel in his parts. I certainly acknowledge MM as the more technical guy but I don't put him above MP overall. Both guys do an amazing job.

MP has a standard rock "feel."

He's a unique player with his own personal style. But "feel" is not something I'd say he has a lot of.

Listen to Mike on a song like Deja Vu from Scenes. That has so much feel and emotion as far as I'm concerned, or The Root Of All Evil. People all of a sudden are very dismissive of MP's skills and I don't get that?

[hefdaddy42]

His "feel" and "emotion" are not the same as his skills.  I am somewhat dismissive of MP's skills, but only in comparison to someone like MM (or Virgil Donati, or Thomas Lang, or Marco Minneman), due to what I see and hear and from things MP himself has said along the same lines.  But I think his feel is great, and always has been.  That's one thing that makes him good as an arranger.

[Lowdz]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

True dat. Mike Portnoy would have no problem playing the last 2 albums. C'mon, the guy is world class.

He'd be able to play it, just not the same. See Apocalypse 1470 off the PMSL dvd. And that was the parts by a drummer who didn't get the DT gig.
And MP would have the balls to do it, certainly. The chops? Maybe not. I'm not slating the guy, he's just not in the same class as MM. If he was as devoted to his craft he may well have been, but he's been resting on his laurels a long time.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

MP is one of my favorite musicians. He does a lot of stuff that I love, and I think he's come up with some of the coolest parts over the years. But technique has never been the reason why, because it is not a stylistic feature of his playing. Amazing technique and virtuosity are features of Marco's, MM's and Virgil's playing. Similarly, "groove" or "feel" are not reasons why I love MP's music. Groove isn't even a stylistic feature of this genre. When you think of great groove drummers, you don't think of prog metal drummers for a reason. Have you ever heard of a knowledgable drummer/musician with a good ear and exposure to a multitude of genres listen to DT and go "wow man that's an incredible groove Dream Theater laid down." That would never happen.

Feel is very closely related to groove. It's about how you FEEL the beat and whether you play on top of it, behind it or in front of it and it includes articulation, dynamics and volume control. As a quick example, go back to the documentary and listen to how Marco plays the Spirit Carries On. Then go listen to how Derrick Roddy plays it. Those two feel (all puns intended) completely different. I've probably posted on this before at length (in fact, I think I did a long time ago) so I won't belabor it.

My point is that when I think of MP's playing I think about all the great moments on records like Images. A lot of those parts were extremely creative to me. Someone also mentioned arrangement. I totally agree with that. He's a great arranger. But to say that he's technical or can groove really well, or has a feel other than a straight up rock feel, borders on just funny.

[Sycsa]

For me, probably the most important feature of a drummer is taste. MP's playing was always tasteful and organic. He really shines on the less technical songs as well. A simple, tasty fill can go a long way.

[OsMosis2259]

JP and JLB.

The singer of a band is something that a lot of the fans are used to the most. After 11 albums, if JLB was replaced, I'd probably just change the band name and start a new project.

JP is the primary songwriter and has become the driving force of the band lately. I'm sure they could find someone and replace him with someone like Thiago Campos to play his stuff... but it's JP that comes up with the melodies/chord progressions/riffs that we are used to.

I think if JP left, the band would just call it quits.