Is Anyone Irreplacable?

[JediKnight1969]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

It depends what you mean by replaceable. In the context of your thread, you're right. Derek and then Jordan took his place in the band, and I thought both worked out really well. Stylistically, however, neither of his "replacements" really have the same creative style as he did. Kevin brought something different to the table, along with Derek and Jordan.

This. That's why we all workship I&W and Awake.

[Knguro]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

[BlobVanDam]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

What do you mean "we know you love MP"? Just because I'm not dumping shit on MP and agreeing that his abilities are a bicycle compared to a Ferrari?! 
I like MP, and I also like MM.   I'm very supportive of MM being in the band, and I don't want him to leave DT. I'm not choosing one over the other, and I don't have to. MP was DT's drummer until 2010, and MM is DT's drummer from 2010 onwards.

But the drumming on the last two albums is largely not beyond what MP did with the band. Yes, there are definitely moments that MP couldn't play, or not play as effortlessly, especially on DT12, but overall it's not the night and day comparison some people make it out to be.
MM is an absolute monster at the drumkit, and a lot more capable than MP as a drummer, but MM's not playing at 100% of his capacity constantly. He's playing what the song calls for, which is often much more understated. If MM was playing at 100% for the entire album, then MP wouldn't have a hope, but that's not the case.

But this is a useless hypothetical anyway, because MM's not going anywhere, and if he did, there's currently no reason to assume MP would be his replacement.

[JPX]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

Show me one part from ADTOE or DT12 that MP couldn't play. I wish it wasn't the case, but MM hasn't really done anything to impress me and MP is most certainly capabale of playing his parts.

[Knguro]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

Show me one part from ADTOE or DT12 that MP couldn't play. I wish it wasn't the case, but MM hasn't really done anything to impress me and MP is most certainly capabale of playing his parts.

Well to bad you haven't lisent anything that he has donde yet, but is pretty simple, ALL of us are completely sure that MM is 100% capable to play MP legacy, but not even 75% of us are sure if MP can play what MM is doing.

[Knguro]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

What do you mean "we know you love MP"? Just because I'm not dumping shit on MP and agreeing that his abilities are a bicycle compared to a Ferrari?! 
I like MP, and I also like MM.   I'm very supportive of MM being in the band, and I don't want him to leave DT. I'm not choosing one over the other, and I don't have to. MP was DT's drummer until 2010, and MM is DT's drummer from 2010 onwards.

But the drumming on the last two albums is largely not beyond what MP did with the band. Yes, there are definitely moments that MP couldn't play, or not play as effortlessly, especially on DT12, but overall it's not the night and day comparison some people make it out to be.
MM is an absolute monster at the drumkit, and a lot more capable than MP as a drummer, but MM's not playing at 100% of his capacity constantly. He's playing what the song calls for, which is often much more understated. If MM was playing at 100% for the entire album, then MP wouldn't have a hope, but that's not the case.

But this is a useless hypothetical anyway, because MM's not going anywhere, and if he did, there's currently no reason to assume MP would be his replacement.

Your last sentence describes it perfectly.

[Tick]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

It depends what you mean by replaceable. In the context of your thread, you're right. Derek and then Jordan took his place in the band, and I thought both worked out really well. Stylistically, however, neither of his "replacements" really have the same creative style as he did. Kevin brought something different to the table, along with Derek and Jordan.

This. That's why we all workship I&W and Awake.

Its a great record, but I personally like SFAM better so I think they replaced KM just fine.
So would you want KM to return and replace JR at this point? I sure wouldn't.

[Elite]

I thoroughly agree with everything Blob has said in this thread.

I also agree with this quote, as it sums up my thoughts perfectly:

As the primary songwriter, JP leaving would definitely be difficult to overcome. I'm not sure the band could. I'm not sure they would ever try.

Anyone else in the band is replaceable IMO. JLB is the most difficult to imagine leaving, and probably the most difficult to replace after JP. It'd be difficult to see Myung go, but the impact wouldn't be as huge. I like Mangini, but he could really come or go since he's so new, and it wouldn't shake things up much. Rudess leaving would be a lot like MP leaving - most people would be sad, but a lot of people would be excited to hear what a new keyboardist could bring to the table, esp since JR has always gotten some criticism.

[Polarbear]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

Show me one part from ADTOE or DT12 that MP couldn't play. I wish it wasn't the case, but MM hasn't really done anything to impress me and MP is most certainly capabale of playing his parts.

Just my thoughts: I always thought that people here were done with the MP departure thing, but it seems that for many people that's not the case. And i agree MP gets way too much shit here. The band would not be even a fraction of what it is today if not for him.

And regarding whos irreplacable, i would have to say if JP leaves its game over for DT. ADTOE was great, but judging just how incredibly bad this new album was i cannot see how MM is aiding the songwriting process in any way. He is still a fantastic drummer and a member of the band, don't get me wrong. But i don't think he is as irreplacable as some people here seem to think.

But i am happy with DT the way it is at the moment, i just hope that the next album is a lot better than this one

[Daso]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

It depends what you mean by replaceable. In the context of your thread, you're right. Derek and then Jordan took his place in the band, and I thought both worked out really well. Stylistically, however, neither of his "replacements" really have the same creative style as he did. Kevin brought something different to the table, along with Derek and Jordan.

This. That's why we all workship I&W and Awake.

Its a great record, but I personally like SFAM better so I think they replaced KM just fine.
So would you want KM to return and replace JR at this point? I sure wouldn't.

I love JR and I don't want him to leave DT ever, but it would be an interesting experiment to see it in some sort of alternate reality.

As many have said, I think JP is the irreplaceable member of the band. He drives it musically, he's one of the two founding members left and out of those two, he's the one that brings more creative input into the band. He could be replaced by someone else playing his stuff, sure, but not creatively. Next, JLB because he's the center of attention during the bigger part of every song, and having someone else sing instead of him would make the band sound VERY different. Perhaps someone else could sing his parts, but not like him. It would be too different to stand.

[Tick]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

It depends what you mean by replaceable. In the context of your thread, you're right. Derek and then Jordan took his place in the band, and I thought both worked out really well. Stylistically, however, neither of his "replacements" really have the same creative style as he did. Kevin brought something different to the table, along with Derek and Jordan.

This. That's why we all workship I&W and Awake.

Its a great record, but I personally like SFAM better so I think they replaced KM just fine.
So would you want KM to return and replace JR at this point? I sure wouldn't.

I love JR and I don't want him to leave DT ever, but it would be an interesting experiment to see it in some sort of alternate reality.

As many have said, I think JP is the irreplaceable member of the band. He drives it musically, he's one of the two founding members left and out of those two, he's the one that brings more creative input into the band. He could be replaced by someone else playing his stuff, sure, but not creatively. Next, JLB because he's the center of attention during the bigger part of every song, and having someone else sing instead of him would make the band sound VERY different. Perhaps someone else could sing his parts, but not like him. It would be too different to stand.

Keep in mind my scenario is based on Mike Portnoy still being in the band and whether or not DT could have continued if it had been JP leaving instead of MP.

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Come on we know you love MP, but the last 2 albums?

Show me one part from ADTOE or DT12 that MP couldn't play. I wish it wasn't the case, but MM hasn't really done anything to impress me and MP is most certainly capabale of playing his parts.

Just my thoughts: I always thought that people here were done with the MP departure thing, but it seems that for many people that's not the case. And i agree MP gets way too much shit here. The band would not be even a fraction of what it is today if not for him.

And regarding whos irreplacable, i would have to say if JP leaves its game over for DT. ADTOE was great, but judging just how incredibly bad this new album was i cannot see how MM is aiding the songwriting process in any way. He is still a fantastic drummer and a member of the band, don't get me wrong. But i don't think he is as irreplacable as some people here seem to think.

But i am happy with DT the way it is at the moment, i just hope that the next album is a lot better than this one

The new record is, "incredibly bad"? Well, ya lost me there.

[Daso]

Then I wouldn't agree  The work chemistry between MP and KM is pretty bad. I thought the scenario meant a JLB-JP-MM-JMX-KM line up.

[Sketchy]

I think replacing JM would actually change the sound a lot more than you'd expect. His style is really pretty unusual, and quite ornate. I think you'd need to add a lot more layers of everything else to result in the same filled-outness of sound.

[Polarbear]

The new record is, "incredibly bad"? Well, ya lost me there.

I know many people here think DT12 is the best thing since sliced bread, and i m completely fine with that. I just gave my humble opinion

Like i said despite the new album, i think they are in great shape right now!

[Laich21DT]

If JP leaves, the band is done. 100%

JM is probably the easiest to replace, but JLB should probably be the first they replace.

Um, no, thanks.

Also, Petrucci is definitely the most irreplaceable member.

[Nick]

Apparently and most unfortunately it seems to be Hugh Syme.

[JPX]

Apparently and most unfortunately it seems to be Hugh Syme.

 

[Zydar]

[JediKnight1969]

The new record is, "incredibly bad"? Well, ya lost me there.

I know many people here think DT12 is the best thing since sliced bread...

 

[Hanz Gruber]

All of the members of the band are awesome but JP is irreplacable because of his leadership and songwriting.  JLB is also because someone else singing DT songs would be wrong.

[Laich21DT]

*Quote pyramid*

Really?

[Tick]

The new record is, "incredibly bad"? Well, ya lost me there.

I know many people here think DT12 is the best thing since sliced bread, and i m completely fine with that. I just gave my humble opinion

Like i said despite the new album, i think they are in great shape right now!

Well honestly its too soon for me to go nuts considering I have only heard this record a couple times, but its certainly not a bad record in my opinion. I'm also not ready to hail it as a career masterpiece. I just want to be fair in judging any new record and for me its way to soon to label it. I like it. That's as much as I can say at this point.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Apparently and most unfortunately it seems to be Hugh Syme.

This post won the thread. 

At this point for me, I could really only see JR and MM leaving the band. JM, JLB or JP leaving would break the harmony completely. Though I hate to leave people out in this manner.

JR leaving would be a huge blow. There are some parts it'd be hard to find a suitable keyboardist to play. Moreover, his creative input is outmatched only by JP's. The replacement would have to be a creative, extremely skilled keyboardist with lots of motivation and drive. DT really was lucky to have found MM, but tbh, compared to MP, he is just a guy who goes to the studio and plays whatever the band needs to be played, albeit doing it better than his predecessor. I'd really like for him to get involved with the songwriting.

[JediKnight1969]

Apparently and most unfortunately it seems to be Hugh Syme.

This post won the thread. 

At this point for me, I could really only see JR and MM leaving the band. JM, JLB or JP leaving would break the harmony completely. Though I hate to leave people out in this manner.

JR leaving would be a huge blow. There are some parts it'd be hard to find a suitable keyboardist to play. Moreover, his creative input is outmatched only by JP's. The replacement would have to be a creative, extremely skilled keyboardist with lots of motivation and drive...

Someone like Vitalij Kuprij.

Or DS. 

[?]

As the primary songwriter, JP leaving would definitely be difficult to overcome. I'm not sure the band could. I'm not sure they would ever try.

Anyone else in the band is replaceable IMO. JLB is the most difficult to imagine leaving, and probably the most difficult to replace after JP. It'd be difficult to see Myung go, but the impact wouldn't be as huge. I like Mangini, but he could really come or go since he's so new, and it wouldn't shake things up much. Rudess leaving would be a lot like MP leaving - most people would be sad, but a lot of people would be excited to hear what a new keyboardist could bring to the table, esp since JR has always gotten some criticism.

Basically this.

[pain of occupation]

I vote for Sebastian Bach in JLB leaves.

Also, completely agree its laughable that MP couldn't play all the parts on DT11 or DT12.

[adastra]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

[Knguro]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

[adastra]

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

Okay Okay, Thanks!!  But Is there some parts in ADTOE or DT12 that MP propably couldn't play? 

[Knguro]

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

Okay Okay, Thanks!!  But Is there some parts in ADTOE or DT12 that MP propably couldn't play? 

Yes there is 

[adastra]

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

Okay Okay, Thanks!!  But Is there some parts in ADTOE or DT12 that MP propably couldn't play? 

Yes there is 

TELL ME NOW!!! 

[?]

I'm not a drummer so I'm just guessing, but I don't think MP could do the cymbal strokes at 3:28 in OTBOA with one hand like MM. The ending of BITS and some rhythmically crazy stuff in other songs might be challenging too.

[Knguro]

I really don't understand this stuff that MP couldn't play MM's parts in ADTOE and DT12.
I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the complexity of drumming.. But in my ears the parts he is playing doesn't sound "that difficult"

Can someone pinpoint a certain stuff in ADTOE or DT12  that MP couldn't play... Cos I really thought there aren't anything he couldn't play.
If you guys meant that MM can play super fast with one hand and MP can't do that , then I understand...



And... If JLB  leaves , I'd replace him with Fabio Lione!!!  He looks the same and sounds amazing 

Well, one of the main attributes of MM is the ability to play different time signatures at the same time, meaning, playing 1 thing on one hand, on a totally different thing on the other hand, but he took it to another lever, he can do that, with his 4 limbs!... AT THE SAME TIME. That's one thing, the other thing is that he is currently the main time signature mentor for the band, JP, JMX and JR have admitted having MM explaining to them different rhythm technics. And he has applied some of those examples on both albums. He is a true monster on the kit, simple as that. Technically speaking MP is no way on the same league, MP even admitted that he left some technical and reading practicing behind, MM was a Berklee teacher. But look I'm not saying that MP is bad, no way!! he was part of the main sound of this glorious band for so many years, he is gone, MM took his place, and raised it to another level.

Okay Okay, Thanks!!  But Is there some parts in ADTOE or DT12 that MP propably couldn't play? 

Yes there is 

TELL ME NOW!!! 

I've done my homework already on that, do yours! 

[Knguro]

I'm not a drummer so I'm just guessing, but I don't think MP could do the cymbal strokes at 3:28 in OTBOA with one hand like MM. The ending of BITS and some rhythmically crazy stuff in other songs might be challenging too.

Very good example!

[Cruithne]

I don't think anyone in the band is genuinely irreplaceable, but in terms of ranking how difficult it would be to replace them convincingly I'd go with the following order:

1. JP
2. JLB
3. JR
4. JM
(big gulf, then...)
5. MM

Although I've put JR above JM based on perceived creative influence I'd be less bothered if JR needed to be replaced than if JM needed to be replaced.

MM is the Rusty Cooley of drumming, as far as I'm concerned - extremely high technical expertise and not much else. You might struggle to find someone capable of playing his parts from the last couple of albums, but you could easily fake them and have a drummer who plays with proper oomph, as opposed to MM's robotic tippy tappy footering, and I suspect < 1% of the audience would neither notice nor care.