Is Anyone Irreplacable?

[Tick]

I was thinking about the current lineup of DT while watching Luna Park in the theater the other night. While watching I thought about how good Mike Mangini is. It was hard for me to see MP leave the band as a fan, but I was open minded to the future. The future is obviously pretty fine at this point.

My thought is this. As much as MP was such a intricate  part of the band he was replaceable. While watching JP play during that movie I thought, had he left I don't know if they could have rebounded with a new guitar player. I couldn't see Dream Theater without JP on guitar.

I deem him to be the only irreplaceable member of a very talented band.

Thoughts?

[puppyonacid]

It depends really. I'd agree with you but having read lifting shadows it was clear that whern MP nearly left during the FII tour, they would not have continued without him at that point.

I do see JP as irreplacable. I gotta say though - who really could replace JR, JM or JLB? Heck, they'd have a helluva task replacing MM at this point.

I feel - and I mean no disrespect by this as I love this band - that if any other band members were to leave at this point then DT would be quickly becoming a farce with "revolving door" policy. Their hand was forced by MP and I think they made the right decision.

Purely on an objective front with politics aside, I genuinely feel that JP is indeed the stand out irreplacable element of DT. But that said, I think they're all pretty hard to replace now. I don't see anyone filling JLBs shoes these days.

[Perpetual Change]

As the primary songwriter, JP leaving would definitely be difficult to overcome. I'm not sure the band could. I'm not sure they would ever try.

Anyone else in the band is replaceable IMO. JLB is the most difficult to imagine leaving, and probably the most difficult to replace after JP. It'd be difficult to see Myung go, but the impact wouldn't be as huge. I like Mangini, but he could really come or go since he's so new, and it wouldn't shake things up much. Rudess leaving would be a lot like MP leaving - most people would be sad, but a lot of people would be excited to hear what a new keyboardist could bring to the table, esp since JR has always gotten some criticism.

[Sycsa]

I would have a hard time imagining a DT without JP and JR (they are the key guys), but the only truly irreplaceable member is JLB, as his voice is the only unique, non-replicable element of DT's sound and identity.

If they absolutely had to replace someone, I'd ditch JM sooner than MM.

[kirksnosehair]

They'd probably be able to find some clone guy out there who can play all of Petrucci's solos not for note.  There are plenty of guitar slingers out there who can play this stuff.


But writing it is something that only John Petrucci could do.  What I mean is, the majority of Dream Theater's actual output consists of riffs/chord progressions/melodies that came from the mind of Petrucci.  His stamp is all over this stuff.  You can hear it in the Liquid Tension Experiment material as well as Petrucci's solo album.


Without him, the band could probably move on with a talented replacement.  They'd be able to play all of their old material and they'd sound largely the same, but any NEW material they wrote would probably sound quite a bit different, because a totally new person would be bringing those riffs/chord progressions/melodies to the table.

[Kotowboy]

I would have a hard time imagining a DT without JP and JR (they are the key guys), but the only truly irreplaceable member is JLB, as his voice is the only unique, non-replicable element of DT's sound and identity.

If they absolutely had to replace someone, I'd ditch JM sooner than MM.

JR mainly

[kirksnosehair]

Well played, dude     

[Sycsa]

Love them puns. 

[RuRoRul]

JP (for the writing / direction / overall sound) and JLB (for the "surface" of the sound - the singer's voice is the most obvious thing that can completely change how a band sounds, even playing the same songs).

[krieger]

As the primary songwriter, JP leaving would definitely be difficult to overcome. I'm not sure the band could. I'm not sure they would ever try.

Anyone else in the band is replaceable IMO. JLB is the most difficult to imagine leaving, and probably the most difficult to replace after JP. It'd be difficult to see Myung go, but the impact wouldn't be as huge. I like Mangini, but he could really come or go since he's so new, and it wouldn't shake things up much. Rudess leaving would be a lot like MP leaving - most people would be sad, but a lot of people would be excited to hear what a new keyboardist could bring to the table, esp since JR has always gotten some criticism.

This. 

[BlobVanDam]

I think JP, JLB and JR are irreplaceable. JP, for being the main songwriter as mentioned, and thus a key part of their sound. JR because nobody else can do everything he does without seriously compromising the keys, and because he's been such a huge asset to the band's sound, and JLB because he's so identifiable as the voice of the band.

JM and MM are awesome, but I don't think they're quite as irreplaceable a component of the band's sound, especially with MM being new.

But ideally, I don't want any of them replaced!

[gmillerdrake]

They'd probably be able to find some clone guy out there who can play all of Petrucci's solos not for note.  There are plenty of guitar slingers out there who can play this stuff.


But writing it is something that only John Petrucci could do.  What I mean is, the majority of Dream Theater's actual output consists of riffs/chord progressions/melodies that came from the mind of Petrucci.  His stamp is all over this stuff.  You can hear it in the Liquid Tension Experiment material as well as Petrucci's solo album.


Without him, the band could probably move on with a talented replacement.  They'd be able to play all of their old material and they'd sound largely the same, but any NEW material they wrote would probably sound quite a bit different, because a totally new person would be bringing those riffs/chord progressions/melodies to the table.

Pretty much this. I'd add though that if JP were to depart DT would disband.....not even attempt to continue. He's just too vital. 

[Tis BOOLsheet]

If anyone is irreplaceable it's JP. This is a guitar driven band in which he writes all the guitar parts. He's a guitar legend, and it's hard not to think of him first when you think of DT. He's been there from the beginning writing guitar parts and solos that have become pieces by themselves. You could put another great guitarist in the band, but you'd probably have to change the name. He's been the engine in DT's music from the beginning. I don't see how you replace that and keep the same name.

Then again, history has shown that a band can go on when it loses its most recognizable figure.

The day that JP decides not to do this anymore, I think DT will be put to rest. It's his band.

[Kotowboy]

The 4 musicians in DT now are so exceptional at what they do - and in the case of Jordan and Mike - world class - it would be very difficult to get someone else who can not only emulate what they do but compose in their style too.

Where else are they going to find a drummer who plays completely ambidextrous and has total limb independence and can think in time signatures as quickly as MM can ?

If I was forced to give an answer - i'd say that it would probably be easiest to find a new bassist. There are some incredible bass players out there.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

John Petrucci, easy.

[AngelBack]

To me if either JP or JLB left it would be the end.  I would probably still follow what remained but it would never come close, in my mind, to being a legitimate DT.  JR's departure would certainly change things significantly as I believe musically he probably adds more than most realize into crafting the overall sound and feel the band produces.

And I really hope if that day ever comes we don't have to watch a watered down version playing the old hits to 500 people in some small venue.  I would prefer they all move on to side/new projects where we could at least get to check out new music from the former members of the lineup as it is now.

[Tick]

It depends really. I'd agree with you but having read lifting shadows it was clear that whern MP nearly left during the FII tour, they would not have continued without him at that point.

I do see JP as irreplacable. I gotta say though - who really could replace JR, JM or JLB? Heck, they'd have a helluva task replacing MM at this point.

I feel - and I mean no disrespect by this as I love this band - that if any other band members were to leave at this point then DT would be quickly becoming a farce with "revolving door" policy. Their hand was forced by MP and I think they made the right decision.

Purely on an objective front with politics aside, I genuinely feel that JP is indeed the stand out irreplacable element of DT. But that said, I think they're all pretty hard to replace now. I don't see anyone filling JLBs shoes these days.

I say this in the context that Portnoy was still in the band and JP was the one who left. So its not a revolving door senario.

[Perpetual Change]

I love JR, but he's the only person who I'd also feel somewhat excited about leaving.

Not because I want him to leave or anything, but because aside from JP and JLB who are irreplaceable, JR's the only guy left whose leaving would significantly alter the sound of the band. And that would at least make me curious.

[TheAtliator]

I think if JP left Dream Theater, his new band would become Dream Theater...




And JR, JM, JLB and MM would join it.

[Knguro]

If you take JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

[KevShmev]

I'll just pile on here and agree that JP is by far the most irreplaceable member of the band, with JLB being a distant 2nd, and then there being a huge gap between JLB and the next (probably Rudess). 

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, JP is definitely the biggest creative force in the band.  There is no Dream Theater without him.

[JPX]

If JP leaves, the band is done. 100%

JM is probably the easiest to replace, but JLB should probably be the first they replace.

[JediKnight1969]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

[Tick]

The point I was really trying to convey was if Dream Theater had the complete lineup in tact as it was when MP left, I don’t think the band could have moved on from JP leaving. I wasn’t sure what effect MP leaving would have. They made a nearly seamless transition to MM. I think they would have survived any one member leaving at that time and been ok with the exception of JP. I even think they could have replaced JL and could have continued forward with success. JP is the one guy who I believed would have spelled the end for the band long term.

[Knguro]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

Meeeh

[Tis BOOLsheet]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

[BlobVanDam]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

[Shine]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

[JediKnight1969]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

 

[AngelBack]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

More like replacing a new Ferrari with a new Ferrari with a broken navigation system.

[Sycsa]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

Agreed, although going back to MP would indeed seem like a downgrade and what's the point of getting a new member if he can't offer more?

[Tick]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

[Tick]

If you taje JP away from DT you kill DT, he and JL are the main sound of the band, but def JP is the center.

And yes you may replace MM "because he is new", but I don't se any other human having the balls to take challenge that MM may leave behind.

I do: MP.

That's like saying I can replace my new Ferrari with my old bike.

WTF no it's not. DT did not go for 25 years with an old bike.

MP gets far too much shit here. No, he's not MM, but he wouldn't have any real problem playing 99% of the parts on ADTOE and DT12.

True dat. Mike Portnoy would have no problem playing the last 2 albums. C'mon, the guy is world class.

[Implode]

"Is Anyone Irreplaceable?"

Kevin Moore.

Well, obviously there is no truth in that thought.

It depends what you mean by replaceable. In the context of your thread, you're right. Derek and then Jordan took his place in the band, and I thought both worked out really well. Stylistically, however, neither of his "replacements" really have the same creative style as he did. Kevin brought something different to the table, along with Derek and Jordan.