DT12 available on HD Tracks!

[7StringedBeast]

I'm really bummed hearing you all say how great the HD tracks sound, while I'm listening to the muddy CD in my car.  I feel like DT made this album with the HD Tracks in mind, but a large portion of us still use CDs -- so they should have kept that in mind.  I'm not a computer person.  I've never even purchased any music on iTunes and I don't even own and iPod.  For me to download HD tracks and figure out how to "downsample" them or whatever terms you guys are using, and then burn it to a CD is kinda complicated to me.  I haven't even burned a CD in like 10 years, and when I used to do it often came out as a data CD.  I don't have the patience to set aside hours to figure out how to put HD tracks on a CD to listen in my 2004 car stereo -- and potentially waste the $20 if I can't figure out how to do it.  That's why I'm paying Roadrunner, so I don't have to do all this.  Why don't they just offer the HD audio on CD as best as possible?  Make the fans happy.  There's a demand for this, so I hope they listen and do it.  (Sorry, just venting.)

If you have Windows Media Player you can just download the WAV files and burn them to a CD.  I'm pretty sure that it will downsample automatically.  PM me and maybe I can help you out if you are having trouble.

[pgf]

I bought the FLAC files. Could somebody tell my what would be the best way to burn them to a cd ?

And yes, the HD version sounds way much better than the CD.

[Nihil-Morari]

Those cymbals. That orchestra section. The keyboards! 

[Nefarius]

Hint: There are at least 10 descriptions and attempts to help by 10 different people on the last 10 pages about the file formats, their differences, pros and cons, and suggestions for conversion tools ranging from entry level to in depth pro in this topic alone. A little reading beyond the current page will help a lot.

Greetings...
Nef

[Kotowboy]

VLC WILL PLAY ANYTHING.

If you want to get the FLAC on your Portable Device - I can't answer that.

[JRuless]

sounds great on my good old EMU 1820m at 96000 hz with SH HD 380 Pro 

[CrimsonSunrise]

So far I'm happy I spent the bucks on this version.  Already I hear a big difference, mostly I hear more of the highs now.  More defined cymbal and pronounced keyboard/guitar subtleties.

[Zook]

QUESTION!

Do I have to downsample the 48000 version to 44100 or will the 48000 still play on say, my android phone? I'm listening to the 48000 version through Audacity on my 7 year old computer and it's playing just fine.

[rumborak]

48k is a rather common format, so I would be surprised if phones couldn't handle it. 96k, I doubt it.

Here's a very different comment though I thought of yesterday: it's kinda hilarious to hear people here talk about 96k files while
a) the human ear can't discern it
b) the average sound card (let alone a 3x3mm smartphone sound card) will do a shoddy job at playing it
c) headphones have a district w drop-off beyond 20kHz too

People have raised the concern that HDTracks are just upsampled versions of the original. Frankly, I can't blame the guy running it. The vast majority of consumers listen to "audiophile" files through shite sound cards, head phones and ears. Why bother put in the effort.

[cool34231a]

I find this to be the best player for Android devices. I loaded 24-bit 48Khz Megadeth, 96Khz and 88.2Khz Dream Theater FLAC songs and it played them fine on my Note II phone, with a decent quality for a phone using Koss PortaPro headphones. (5.1ch FLAC didn't work though, too much to ask I guess  )
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer

If you have a compatible phone/device with the right setup, you might want to give this one a try. I used to use it with my old Galaxy S, but sadly it's not compatible with my new phone. Basically it improves the sound quality dramatically.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.projectvoodoo.controlappdonate&hl=en

[Mebert78]

I was able to burn the HD tracks to CD with the help of people here.  I'm pretty bad at this tech stuff.  It sounds much better than the physical CD I received from RoadRunner.  It's a much more crisp sound and I can hear the nuances in the songs.  That's pretty sad that I'm using a burned CD for an album that just came out this week.  A large majority of the music-listening public will experience the muddy version on the CD and never know truly how beautiful this album sounds.  This is a black eye for DT, in my opinion.  I still maintain that they should offer fans a chance to mail back their CDs for an HD version on CD -- similiar to what Cleopatra Records did for the Geoff Tate's F.U. earlier this year.  There's no reason why the best quality possible should not be on the CD.  Whoever is responsible for the lesser-sounding CD in DT camp or Roadrunner camp should be seriously reprimanded, in my opinion.  I would implore DT to never work with that person, or persons, again.

[KevShmev]

Ya know, there's something genuinely annoying about being asked to preorder a version of an album on a daily basis, and then going ahead and spending money on it, only to have the superior project flung on everyone for an additional $20 on release day. Just sayin'.

That is the version of the album that I would have bought, if, y'know, I didn't already buy it.

You and me both.  But I still might buy these HD tracks, given how much everyone is raving about them.

[Rob801]

Seems like I used hours trying different apps (apple) to listen to the HD tracks un coverted (seems like the one coverter that was mentioned earlier was a windows only program...or I just couldn't find the Mac version).

Anyway, first try was VLC of course but that put the tracks out of order alphabetical) and I couldn't find a way to make a play list and it wouldn't go to the next track without me having to select and push play again... Then I tried an app called Player Extreme and that took my entire library and showed it as one long list ( although I think I could narrow it down to artist, I couldn't get it to just show the album) strike two.

After using a bit more time searching for HD audio players (seems like most of the apps I found were geared more towards video with hi def audio) I found one called VM player HD and that allowed me to import the unconverted HD tracks and make a playlist out  of the folder (easily).

So after a weekend of frustration (when I finally got the player problem solved I didn't have time or solitude enough to listen to it the rest of the weekend ) I am finally listening to DT 12 in HD and enjoying the hell. Out of it 

[slycordinator]

Seems like I used hours trying different apps (apple) to listen to the HD tracks un coverted (seems like the one coverter that was mentioned earlier was a windows only program...or I just couldn't find the Mac version).

If you're ok with working on the command line, use ffmpeg. It works on pretty much any type of file. There are mac binaries at www.ffmpegmac.net

[Thematt202]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

[Zydar]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

It uses a different master than the CD/DVD.

[TL]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

Well, first off, the DVD is a 5.1 mix while the HD Tracks version is stereo (2.0).

[Bolsters]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

Well, first off, the DVD is a 5.1 mix while the HD Tracks version is stereo (2.0).

The DVD contains both a 5.1 and a stereo mix.

Several other posters in one of the dozen threads about the album, however, have been saying that it's the same master as the CD.

[slycordinator]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

Well, first off, the DVD is a 5.1 mix while the HD Tracks version is stereo (2.0).

The DVD contains both a 5.1 and a stereo mix.

Several other posters in one of the dozen threads about the album, however, have been saying that it's the same master as the CD.

That's not what anyone has said.

The DVD has a 5.1 mix and a stereo mix. The 5.1 mix has a similar DR to the HDTracks and is likely from the same master as the HDTracks while the stereo mix is identical to the CD.

Like I said before, I extracted the 5.1 mix from the DVD and downmixed it to stereo to burn myself a better-sounding CD.

[Bolsters]

Sorry if this had already been asked but is the HD Tracks version different to the DVD audio "disc 2"?  If so, why?

Well, first off, the DVD is a 5.1 mix while the HD Tracks version is stereo (2.0).

The DVD contains both a 5.1 and a stereo mix.

Several other posters in one of the dozen threads about the album, however, have been saying that it's the same master as the CD.

That's not what anyone has said.

The DVD has a 5.1 mix and a stereo mix. The 5.1 mix has a similar DR to the HDTracks and is likely from the same master as the HDTracks while the stereo mix is identical to the CD.

Like I said before, I extracted the 5.1 mix from the DVD and downmixed it to stereo to burn myself a better-sounding CD.

Sorry if my post was unclear, but the bolded part of yours is exactly what I was saying. I was not comparing the 5.1 to the CD master at all. I was pretty sure that was what TheMatt was asking, if the stereo mix on the DVD was the same as the CD or not.

[Prog Snob]

Okay, so I got the HD Tracks for the new CD and am trying to figure something out. I opened The Enemy Inside in Audacity and did a plot spectrum analysis.  I'm new to all of this so the answer to my question might be blatantly obvious for some.  Why does the analysis looks just like a regular wave after it passes to 20khz mark?

[rumborak]

Is there any frequency activity above 20k Hz? If there is none that would mean they just upsampled a 48k wave.

[Prog Snob]

[rumborak]

Hmm. I don't want to start unfounded rumors, but that stuff above 20k looks very unnatural. Like, how I would imagine an upsampling filter artifact to look like.

EDIT: Then again, there still seems to be genuine signal at 25k, which is above what a 48k recording could do. So, most likely this picture just shows how gimmicky 96k waves really are. It's not as if there's any useful signal much higher than 25k anyway. Probably a lot of the recording equipment has a dropoff above 25k anyway.

[Prog Snob]

Hmm. I don't want to start unfounded rumors, but that stuff above 20k looks very unnatural. Like, how I would imagine an upsampling filter artifact to look like.

 

what's that?

[TheGreatPretender]

I honestly don't see why it should matter. Human ears can't pick up those frequencies anyway. The dynamic range is the real reason to buy the HD tracks.

[ariich]

I honestly don't see why it should matter. Human ears can't pick up those frequencies anyway. The dynamic range is the real reason to buy the HD tracks.

This.

[BlobVanDam]

Hmm. I don't want to start unfounded rumors, but that stuff above 20k looks very unnatural. Like, how I would imagine an upsampling filter artifact to look like.

EDIT: Then again, there still seems to be genuine signal at 25k, which is above what a 48k recording could do. So, most likely this picture just shows how gimmicky 96k waves really are. It's not as if there's any useful signal much higher than 25k anyway. Probably a lot of the recording equipment has a dropoff above 25k anyway.

Look at my spectral screenshot a few pages back, which looks more representative. It's nowhere near using the full 96khz, but the recording contains more than a 48khz quality file could contain. I'm not arguing whether it's actually audible to the listener or not (I don't believe it is), but the recording does contain detail that a CD can't fully represent, and it can't hurt to have a more accurate representation of what was recorded.

But as has been said, the biggest gain from these has nothing to do with being "HD", but with the different master, which if you've heard it, is clearly a noticeable improvement.

[JLa]

Now, I don't accept piracy. I haven't downloaded music illegally for many, many years. I buy all my records and support the artists. However ... if these HD tracks really are better than those released on the actual CD (= the CD is not as good as it could/should have been), then this might change my attitude slightly for this particular album, if the HD tracks should appear "free" somewhere... I feel ripped off. And yeah, I have bought the CD.

But I won't discuss this any further.

[efx]

Now, I don't accept piracy. I haven't downloaded music illegally for many, many years. I buy all my records and support the artists. However ... if these HD tracks really are better than those released on the actual CD (= the CD is not as good as it could/should have been), then this might change my attitude slightly for this particular album, if the HD tracks should appear "free" somewhere... I feel ripped off. And yeah, I have bought the CD.

But I won't discuss this any further.

The issue with that is that even if you feel that DT/RR should have included that version on the reg cd, HDTracks would still lose out on payment for something THEY worked for and provided to us.

[Outcrier]

DR6 to DR12...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br2_22e2RoU

[Prog Snob]

I'll ask my friend if he messed with it or converted it to and from a different format.  Would that be a possibility?

[Meatrose]

Yet another comparison, for those who can't make up their minds whether or not to get the HD tracks version. I don't think that the mix is the problem with the regular version, I think it's the master. From what I've heard so far (the HD Tracks release) Chycki did a good job.



To quote the guy who posted this image on 5/8: "Whoever mastered the CD royally f-ed it up".

I'm not into naming and shaming but that would be Ted Jensen at Sterling Sound, New York. I can't find any info on who mastered the HD Tracks version but I would be surprised if it's the same guy.

[me7]

The waveform of the HDtracks release looks great, but when you listen to it you notice that the dynamic spikes are caused only by the drums. Guitar, keyboard and bass are still very compressed from the mixing stage and seem to fight each other in a small dynamic range instead of being layered with distinct peaks.
Better than the CD release, no doubt, but still a somewhat flawed mix.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yet another comparison, for those who can't make up their minds whether or not to get the HD tracks version. I don't think that the mix is the problem with the regular version, I think it's the master. From what I've heard so far (the HD Tracks release) Chycki did a good job.

Totally agreed. Honestly, this might be my favorite mix of any DT album ever. Everything on it is just so crisp sounding, I love it. It's exactly what I was hoping for in terms of the mix, and what I liked about Elements of Persuasion as well. Hopefully Chycki will continue to be the recording engineer on DT's future albums.