DT12 available on HD Tracks!

[Perpetual Change]

The CD does sound truly awful. I can't get over it. I spent $15.99 on it, though. I'm just gonna go and spend another $20 on an alternate version.

[Mebert78]

Ok, so I shall buy the HD version, like you all recommend.  I don't understand all the different formats (I'm not good at this stuff).  If I plan to burn a CD using these files to listen to on my car stereo, what format do you guys suggest.  FLAC?

[Zydar]

Ok, so I shall buy the HD version, like you all recommend.  I don't understand all the different formats (I'm not good at this stuff).  If I plan to burn a CD using these files to listen to on my car stereo, what format do you guys suggest.  FLAC?

Yeah, download them as FLAC. Then you can burn it straight onto a CD. I guess the other formats work too.

[Nefarius]

I don't think the CD is that loud. I can listen to it at a pretty high volume without getting fatigue.

Basically this, there has been a huge fuss about this issue, much greater than reasonable IMO. I will just quote myself on this.

I think it's just something that affects everyone in a very different way.

For group A it sounds just fine the way it is on the CD/DVD/Stream and they won't get into the technicalities and won't understand the complaining of group B, while group B is extremely sensitive to the issue and hugely impacted by the mastering decisions and won't understand how group A doesn't seem to hear the difference at all. And a myriad of groups somewhere in between of course.

I'm definitely in group B and I tell you the difference feels unreal to me, it's almost as if I was listening to completely different albums. The thing is group A wouldn't have noticed if the HDtracks master was also the CD master. They would have turned up the volume a bit more just like everyone else and enjoyed the album just the same or maybe even a little more with the better quality working its subconscious ways.

That's why it's sad separate versions even have to exist, because it wouldn't be necessary.

Greetings...
Nef

[Dorkmaster Flek]

I'm definitely in group B and I tell you the difference feels unreal to me, it's almost as if I was listening to completely different albums. The thing is group A wouldn't have noticed if the HDtracks master was also the CD master. They would have turned up the volume a bit more just like everyone else and enjoyed the album just the same or maybe even a little more with the better quality working its subconscious ways.

That's why it's sad separate versions even have to exist, because it wouldn't be necessary.

I had never heard of HDTracks before now, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that I will be buying all my albums from them in the future, if they are available on there.  I've been listening to a FLAC CD rip up until now, and I can definitely hear a difference between that and the HDTracks FLAC files I just bought last night.

The keys are a little bit more noticeable, although still overall buried too much for my taste, especially compared to ADTOE where they were quite prominent.  I'm disappointed about that, and I hope it reverts for the next album, however the drums definitely sound way better on the HDTracks version.  They sound more up front in the mix overall, and the larger dynamic range makes all the hits come out much clearer.

Overall, it's just more clear in general, with no distortion or clipping in certain parts where there was in the CD mix.  Plus, it's a digital download!  I can actually buy the album and support the band, which I do want to do, and not have a physical disc that I don't want kicking around my house.  Win, win. 

I'm disappointed this is even an issue.  Most people are going to listen to the CD, but this is the way it was meant to be heard.  I agree with Nef 100%.  There is simply no reason for there to be two separate mixes.  I thought we were over this whole "loudness war" thing now that people were aware of it, but apparently the record labels are still idiots...

[cool34231a]

I think it's just something that affects everyone in a very different way.
That's why it's sad separate versions even have to exist, because it wouldn't be necessary.

Greetings...
Nef

I think it all depends on the equipment people use. When using Logitech H600 USB wireless headset, both CD and HD versions sound almost identical. But when I use Sennheiser HD650 with Sound Blaster ZXR, then the HD version sounds truly amazing, totally different from CD version.

[Nefarius]

If CD and HD are the same on low end systems and HD gets better with increased equipment quality, there's still no reason for the inferior master.

It may be loud enough for blasting notebook and phone speakers until the plastic surrounding them begins to vibrate and crackle, but I would very much like to think the average DT fan is not in a target group where this is an important argument.

Greetings...
Nef

[darkshade]

I generally use my iPod to listen to music, but will occasionally use CDs when I'm in my living room (no place to hook up iPod there), so is ALAC good to use on iTunes, will it burn to disc, etc? I've never used ALAC but I've used FLAC and converted them to mp3 (don't know how to burn FLAC). If I use FLAC and convert, is there quality loss? Can I do the same with ALAC? I'm confused and don't know which version to download...

[ariich]

I don't think the CD is that loud. I can listen to it at a pretty high volume without getting fatigue.

Basically this, there has been a huge fuss about this issue, much greater than reasonable IMO. I will just quote myself on this.

Anyway, I still think all this fuss is something really excessive. I'm satisfied with the sound of the CD. Personal opinion. It has its bricks, but it's not something I personally dislike so much. If you want perfection, just get the HD tracks, if you are satisfied with a very good product, you can buy the CD.

I think everyone is just different. I am NOT an audiophile, I can think of only a handful of albums that I tihnk have been ruined by being too loud and overly compressed, and that doesn't include any previous DT album. And I was perfectly with the sound for TEI when that came out, because it fit the song.

But even for me, the full album was tiring to listen to, and I very rarely have that. I'm not finding that with the HD tracks.

[cool34231a]

I generally use my iPod to listen to music, but will occasionally use CDs when I'm in my living room (no place to hook up iPod there), so is ALAC good to use on iTunes, will it burn to disc, etc? I've never used ALAC but I've used FLAC and converted them to mp3 (don't know how to burn FLAC). If I use FLAC and convert, is there quality loss? Can I do the same with ALAC? I'm confused and don't know which version to download...

ALAC is Apple format. FLAC is like a world's free lossless compression format (like ZIP). If you want a long term insurance, I'd recommend FLAC. I use dBpoweramp for conversions, but it can also burn CDs. DT FLACs are 24-bit 96KHz, so you'll have to downscale to 16-bit 44KHz (just keep your original FLAC files for archive). It will reduce the quality, but there's no other way around it, because CD spec is 16-bit 44KHz. Unless there's a way to burn 20-bit 44KHz HDCD, but not many players can play that anyway.

btw. ALAC can be converted to any other lossless format such as FLAC, APE, WAV, with no audio quality loss (maybe tags loss for wav).

[Progmetty]

But downscaling to 16-bit 44KHz would reduce the quality won't it? I was under the impression that if you burn HD tracks to a CD they become the normal CD quality.

[darkshade]

So how do you burn FLAC files to a blank CD?

[BlobVanDam]

But downscaling to 16-bit 44KHz would reduce the quality won't it? I was under the impression that if you burn HD tracks to a CD they become the normal CD quality.

If you're burning an audio CD, then it would end up normal CD quality, yes.
But the biggest difference with the HDTracks DT12 release is that it uses a different and more dynamic master. You won't lose the benefits of that if you burn it to a regular CD.

[me7]

But downscaling to 16-bit 44KHz would reduce the quality won't it? I was under the impression that if you burn HD tracks to a CD they become the normal CD quality.

The HDTracks release doesn't contain anything that can't fit into 16bit 44,1kHz. It's a better master, but it doesn't go beyond the limits of CD. That would be irrelevant anyway because CD quality already goes beyond the limits of human hearing.

[Nefarius]

All formats available on HDtracks are lossless formats. WAV and AIFF data is the raw PCM signal and uses up the most space. FLAC and ALAC compress the data (much like ZIP, RAR, 7Z, etc. but optimized for audio) for reduced file size. You can use tools to convert these formats to and from each other a thousand times and it will not change the content.

So when it comes to quality it doesn't matter which format you choose. The only thing that should affect your decision is what format you'll most likely end up using the most.

AIFF and ALAC are more on the Apple side but are widely supported (especially AIFF). WAV is slightly more on the Windows side but every editor will open it. FLAC is an open source universal solution with slightly better compression (smaller files) than ALAC. ALAC is mostly used with Apple devices but also exists in the rest of the world. FLAC is not supported in iTunes.

AIFF and WAV are raw data and probably better suited for people who tend to modify the material, FLAC and ALAC for people with players that support the formats.

All of them are lossless and most important all of them contain the good stuff in the best possible way so go for it!

Hope that helps.

Greetings...
Nef

[cool34231a]

I just listened to "In The Presence Of Enemies Pt. 1" 24-bit 88.2KHz and then downscaled 16-bit 44KHz. I had to really concentrate to hear the difference. I believe the HD version has little bit better separation and tiny bit nicer vocal reverberation, kind of more warmth. Still,  the downscaled version was much better than original CD release. Senh HD650. SB ZXR.

[Implode]

ITT The same 4 questions are asked and answered over and over and over and over... 

[IslandInTheMaking]

I just thought I'd share a cool site for those who have not already familiar with it.

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtestsaudiotesttones_index.php

Good variety of tests to test your equipment, listening environment and hearing.. Maybe it'll be helpful in discerning the usefulness of HD audio to you.

[soulburner]

I just listened to "In The Presence Of Enemies Pt. 1" 24-bit 88.2KHz and then downscaled 16-bit 44KHz. I had to really concentrate to hear the difference. I believe the HD version has little bit better separation and tiny bit nicer vocal reverberation, kind of more warmth. Still,  the downscaled version was much better than original CD release. Senh HD650. SB ZXR.

I don't think you should be able to hear any difference. What software did you use to downsample?

[Mebert78]

I wish the band or record label would permit fans who purchased the muddy CD version to return it for the HD version on CD -- similar to what Cleopatra Records did for fans who were dissatisfied with Geoff Tate's Queensryche F.U. album mix earlier this year.  Would be a nice thing for them to do.   

[cool34231a]

I don't think you should be able to hear any difference. What software did you use to downsample?

dBpoweramp

[a51502112]

What if I want the cassette format? 

[Implode]

A couple months ago, I saw some hipster band selling their EP at some local shop in cassette format. Apparently vinyls are too mainstream now. 

[soulburner]

Do you see a dithering option in dBpoweramp anywhere? If not, and if I recall correctly, you can add dithering in DSP Effects.

edit - Audacity and sox use dithering by default, by the way.

[Chino]

Ya know, there's something genuinely annoying about being asked to preorder a version of an album on a daily basis, and then going ahead and spending money on it, only to have the superior project flung on everyone for an additional $20 on release day. Just sayin'.

That is the version of the album that I would have bought, if, y'know, I didn't already buy it.

My thoughts exactly.

[cool34231a]

Do you see a dithering option in dBpoweramp anywhere? If not, and if I recall correctly, you can add dithering in DSP Effects.

edit - Audacity and sox use dithering by default, by the way.

I tried downsampling with Audacity. I think there's still a tiny difference. But it's so hard to tell, that I'm not even absolutely sure without additional confirmations.

[cool34231a]

does anyone know if the 2 channel version on the 5.1 DVD is 96/24??

Yes, the DVD-Audio contains two MLP titles. 5.1 24-bit 96KHz, and 2.0 24-bit 96KHz. But 2.0 has a huge dynamic range compression.

[Progmetty]

So how do you burn FLAC files to a blank CD?

Someone mentioned some free software that does, I can't find the post.

[Zydar]

So how do you burn FLAC files to a blank CD?

Someone mentioned some free software that does, I can't find the post.

I use Nero Express for all my burning.

[cool34231a]

Someone mentioned some free software that does, I can't find the post.

CDBurnerXP  , don't know how good the resampling is, but maybe somebody can verify that.
https://cdburnerxp.se/en/features

If you do installed it, choose custom, and uncheck/disagree for advertisement addons.

[me7]

So how do you burn FLAC files to a blank CD?

Someone mentioned some free software that does, I can't find the post.

The HDTracks files need to be downsampled first.

Download SoX from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/
and run this command line: sox.exe "input file.flac" -b 16 "output file.wav" gain -1 rate 44100 dither -s

It will give you wav files that are Audio CD compatible and sound just like the original flac files.

[cool34231a]

There's a bar code on the last page of the Deluxe cover with cool content.
www.weate.ch/dreamtheater/app
funny how the link changes to https://www.dreamtheater.net/qr right away 

[gustkiller]

Did you saw the 15% discount cupom for Dream Theater HDTracks?

Code is " dream15"

[Implode]

Too bad I already bought it all yesterday...

[metropofreak]

Has anyone in the UK managed to get this? I can't pay with paypal and it keeps telling me its not yet available for download in my territory!